The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread

Started by Gaoth Dobhair Abu, January 26, 2007, 10:41:11 AM

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Total Members Voted: 69

tyroneman

QuoteIm no great fan of WGS but his Celtic's have played a better brand of passing football than MON's did

The greatest myth of recent times. WGS Celtic hump the ball long to the big man 80% of the time, at least Petrov and Lennon played some football.

If you look at money in/out and money available WGS is no worse off than O'Neill. If you look at thier win/loss records however WGS is nowhere near.

And I've called for his head since the first season he took over  ;) Precisely because of the football style he brought

Lamh Dhearg Alba

O' Neil's teams have always been big strong physical sides who relied a lot on being very direct. It wasnt the Celtic way but the results (and MON's background) won over the fans. Strachan's Celtic HAVE played better football, no doubt about that. He doesnt have the same background though....

lynchbhoy

MON's earliest Celtic model were a route one side.
Towards the end when the midfield were too old and slow, they returned at times to route one. Othe than that people believe the myth that they were ALWAYS long ball specialists and that they played unattractive football.
I suppose they kind of did, not the cavalier attacking stuff from the Celtic of old, the cavalier approach that looked great under Tommy burns bt won them nothing (apart from a scraped SFA cup against lowly Airdrie) or under GS when rangers have been beating themselves and handing Celtic the league.
Certainly Celtic play nicer football, but MO's teams played a more defensive safety first style of football - a technique used by practically ALL winning sides.
Build on defense and then augment that.
Celtic corner the market in midfielders and scots international squad members.
They play nice football at tmes, but most of the time play a horrible slow uncreative football.

The Celtic 'way' is a myth.
the Celtic way (and any clubs 'way') should be the 'winning way'.
I dont give a fcuk what the play looks like if they are winning to be honest.
But recently players bough, team selection, team tacics,how they play and scraping by the likes of st mirren.
Thats no good enough, and I like alot of Celtic fans, dont give a toss about GS 'background'. If he was doing the business, thats all I care.
I hope he can turn it around (to make Celtic better than rangers currently are), but I dont think he is good enough.

IMO
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tyroneman

I don't disagree that MON side played very direct football at times. They did however, when he got over the hoodoo of his first SPL title start to play a lot of entertaining football too.

It annoys me though that WGS has everyone believing him when he trots out the aul patter about his Celtic side playing good passing football. The majority of Celtics play involves the MF passing square /back/ wide (heaven forbid they actually go forward) to the fullbacks or "beckenbaur" Caldwell to hump the ball up to JVoH (a 6'5" forward who can't win headers).

The tempo, as many here have pointed out, is so slow that by the time Celtic have passed the halfway line they are facing 2 rows of 4. The difference now is that Petrov at least could run at people from central MF.

Gaoth Dobhair Abu

Quote from: tyroneman on March 14, 2008, 10:07:28 AM
I don't disagree that MON side played very direct football at times. They did however, when he got over the hoodoo of his first SPL title start to play a lot of entertaining football too.

It annoys me though that WGS has everyone believing him when he trots out the aul patter about his Celtic side playing good passing football. The majority of Celtics play involves the MF passing square /back/ wide (heaven forbid they actually go forward) to the fullbacks or "beckenbaur" Caldwell to hump the ball up to JVoH (a 6'5" forward who can't win headers).

The tempo, as many here have pointed out, is so slow that by the time Celtic have passed the halfway line they are facing 2 rows of 4. The difference now is that Petrov at least could run at people from central MF.


Certainly we don't have Stan P anymore, but Brown and Donati now cover that role of attacking from the midfield, passing to Aidan and Naka on the wings (under MON we had Lubo and Agathe), under WGS we have JVOH to knock the ball into, under MON we had BBJ (Hartson), so have things really changed that much?
Tbc....

lynchbhoy

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 14, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on March 14, 2008, 10:07:28 AM
I don't disagree that MON side played very direct football at times. They did however, when he got over the hoodoo of his first SPL title start to play a lot of entertaining football too.

It annoys me though that WGS has everyone believing him when he trots out the aul patter about his Celtic side playing good passing football. The majority of Celtics play involves the MF passing square /back/ wide (heaven forbid they actually go forward) to the fullbacks or "beckenbaur" Caldwell to hump the ball up to JVoH (a 6'5" forward who can't win headers).

The tempo, as many here have pointed out, is so slow that by the time Celtic have passed the halfway line they are facing 2 rows of 4. The difference now is that Petrov at least could run at people from central MF.


Certainly we don't have Stan P anymore, but Brown and Donati now cover that role of attacking from the midfield, passing to Aidan and Naka on the wings (under MON we had Lubo and Agathe), under WGS we have JVOH to knock the ball into, under MON we had BBJ (Hartson), so have things really changed that much?
imo yes
JVOH is not a traditional 'british style' centre forward.
He is a footballer. He happens to be tall.
Niall quinn was tall but shite in the air. JVOH is decent in the air, but not with his back to goal (Like quinn).
Brown is a runner in mf. The midfield is faster at covering these dys, but the problem is they play the ball about at a pace way too slow that allows the opposition get back into position.
McGeady has finally matured and is delivering on his promise.
Donati could be brilliant if he stopped giving the ball away with slack passes every second ball.
Unlik eMONs teams that were fantastic in the back four, GS has an attacking RB, whole hearted but guile-less cb's with  LB that is lovable but breaks your heart with rash tackling and bad positioning.
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Gaoth Dobhair Abu

Lynchbhoy, while I'd agree with your defensive comparisons between MON and WGS, I believe that this is the big difference between these teams, MON had a good solid defense, while most of the players WGS has bought (defenders and all) seem to have an attacking element to their game. Now while this could be seen as good, it will only work with a solid CB and a Lennonesque CM, neither of which we have at the minute. Also if you want to have an attacking team, you need them to be able to PASS the fecking ball!!  :(
Tbc....

tyroneman

QuoteBrown and Donati now cover that role of attacking from the midfield

How many goals from MF have Donati, Brown, Hartley and Sno got between them this year from Midfield? Feel free to add Jiri's contrbution to the total also............... ;)

Quoteunder MON we had Lubo and Agathe

Lubo wasn't a winger...............yr thinking of Thompson

QuoteDonati could be brilliant if he stopped giving the ball away with slack passes every second ball

If my auntie had b*lls..................................she'd be...................

QuoteUnlik eMONs teams that were fantastic in the back four, GS has an attacking RB

And what............ Jackie Mac wasn't an attacking RB???? FFS man.

Anyway - MON typically played 3-5-2 as well, negating the traditional Full Back Role so comparisons with WHS fullbacks are a bit pointless

lynchbhoy

Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on March 14, 2008, 11:05:44 AM
Lynchbhoy, while I'd agree with your defensive comparisons between MON and WGS, I believe that this is the big difference between these teams, MON had a good solid defense, while most of the players WGS has bought (defenders and all) seem to have an attacking element to their game. Now while this could be seen as good, it will only work with a solid CB and a Lennonesque CM, neither of which we have at the minute. Also if you want to have an attacking team, you need them to be able to PASS the fecking ball!!  :(
would agree, but Celtic need a defense first.
I think the midfield could be good, but having to hand hold and babysit the defense all the time means they are on the back foot and cant help out going forward more quickly as is required.
..........

lynchbhoy

Quote from: tyroneman on March 14, 2008, 01:32:46 PM
QuoteBrown and Donati now cover that role of attacking from the midfield
How many goals from MF have Donati, Brown, Hartley and Sno got between them this year from Midfield? Feel free to add Jiri's contrbution to the total also............... ;)
Quoteunder MON we had Lubo and Agathe
Lubo wasn't a winger...............yr thinking of Thompson
QuoteDonati could be brilliant if he stopped giving the ball away with slack passes every second ball
If my auntie had b*lls..................................she'd be...................
QuoteUnlik eMONs teams that were fantastic in the back four, GS has an attacking RB
And what............ Jackie Mac wasn't an attacking RB???? FFS man.
Anyway - MON typically played 3-5-2 as well, negating the traditional Full Back Role so comparisons with WHS fullbacks are a bit pointless
Mon played a 442 when it suited , and did so for more or lest his last two years as manager. Jackie mac was past it for the last couple of years and a liability imo (but not of most others I accept).Neither a great defender or a decent attacking full back - he couldnt cross the ball. He was originally a decent midfielder - where he preferred to play.
Lubo did a lot of good work as a wide midfielder (if not a 'winger').
Donati will hopefully cut out his mistakes and utilise his pace and athleticism.
How many goals has Brown setup this season if not scored. Hartley too. Bit harsh on them.
Celtic are sroring loads via McDonald and JVOH. Dont need anyone else scoring although we know there are plenty of others who can score (when they are not hitting the woodowrk - 6 times in last two games!)
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tyroneman

QuoteDont need anyone else scoring

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttt?

lynchbhoy

Quote from: tyroneman on March 14, 2008, 04:18:57 PM
QuoteDont need anyone else scoring

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttt?
do you not think mcDonald , JVOH, Samaras and McGeady are scoring enough ?

usually I would like to see a greater spread of goals, but as there is normally only a certain amount of goals scored in a game, would you prefer if the defenders and midfielders all scored the goals and the strikers didnt ?
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Main Street

Regardless of personal opinion of whether Strachan is up to it or not,
do you think he will be there come next August?



the green man

Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2008, 05:23:52 PM
Regardless of personal opinion of whether Strachan is up to it or not,
do you think he will be there come next August?

Why not? His record of success is up there with the best managers the club has had. Celtic are scoring quite freely in the league, it's the two centre halfs, who in my opinion are under performing, that is causing the bother. As stated Caldwell is at best a utility player, and should be used as such. I'll get crucified for this, but McManus isn't up to scratch. Could become a dominant centre half, but isn't the deal yet. Should never have been made captain of the team. Possibly that is were Strachan has made his biggest mistake.

lynchbhoy

Quote from: the green man on March 14, 2008, 10:37:17 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2008, 05:23:52 PM
Regardless of personal opinion of whether Strachan is up to it or not,
do you think he will be there come next August?

Why not? His record of success is up there with the best managers the club has had. Celtic are scoring quite freely in the league, it's the two centre halfs, who in my opinion are under performing, that is causing the bother. As stated Caldwell is at best a utility player, and should be used as such. I'll get crucified for this, but McManus isn't up to scratch. Could become a dominant centre half, but isn't the deal yet. Should never have been made captain of the team. Possibly that is were Strachan has made his biggest mistake.
no - I agree with you.
GS has made many many tactical and formation mistakes as well as personnel selection and who he bought etc as well.

a 'utility' room in some parts of america is actually a toilet ! ;)
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