Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 76591 times)

Harold Disgracey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1710 on: December 07, 2017, 09:58:17 AM »
I too grew up in Portadown, my experiences were very different. We were put out of our house in Redmanville in the early 70s and forced to move to the Garvaghy Road. The nationalist population in Portadown was most certainly discriminated against. Anyhow some of my family members contributed to changing the look and shape of the town  ;)

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12244
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1711 on: December 07, 2017, 10:43:07 AM »
I am not denying there was discrimination,at best you could say the working class Protestant community had marginal advantages over the Working class catholic community.The monied middle classes of both communities enjoyed huge advantages over everyone.Catholics were driven out of mainly Protestant estates,and vice Versa Protestants were driven out of mainly catholic estates,but this was not happening pre troubles in the 60s. I spent two very early years of my life in Killicomaine,now a loyalist enclave,without any problems. Like it or not the troubles pushed the working classes into segregated housing. As I said before all Dublin Govts and the SDLP have repeatedly said there was no need or justification for the violence.

Applesisapples

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3456
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1712 on: December 07, 2017, 12:49:49 PM »
I wouldn't expect you to understand but a lot of households with large families up here attracted benefit levels that made employment not worthwhile.Those large families were invariably catholic.
Tony you're probably a holocaust denier as well.

Applesisapples

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3456
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1713 on: December 07, 2017, 12:55:26 PM »
I have decided that when it comes to this thread Tony is probably best ignored. Knowing Portadown well I do not recognise the idyllic rose tinted view of his wonderful childhood in that bastion of loyalist tolerance.

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12244
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1714 on: December 07, 2017, 01:02:58 PM »
My childhood was pre troubles.I have presented a fully factual accurate account of my family's life and experience and achievements from a very low socio economic background,with parents who were never out of work,living for over 30 years of my life,pre and through the troubles in predominantly Protestant areas without trouble.Hell, my parents were members of many cross community charity groups they even received and accepted an invite to a garden party with Royalty at Hillsborough Castle once as members of one of these groups.Something I confess I wouldn't have accepted,but then they didn't see stereotypes,they saw people who they respected,and respected them in return.

We didn't go around thinking we were akin to black people in Alabama,nor attribute all of life's many inevitable disappointments to the fact that we were Catholics.We just got on with it.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:25:24 PM by T Fearon »

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12244
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1715 on: December 07, 2017, 01:15:13 PM »
I could tell you stories of lads going down South at weekends,from INF club in Lurgan for example,and maybe being a wee bit boisterous,and being told by the Guards to go home to "your black North"
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:24:28 PM by T Fearon »

Brick Tamlin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1217
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1716 on: December 07, 2017, 02:16:36 PM »
My childhood was pre troubles.I have presented a fully factual accurate account of my family's life and experience and achievements from a very low socio economic background,with parents who were never out of work,living for over 30 years of my life,pre and through the troubles in predominantly Protestant areas without trouble.Hell, my parents were members of many cross community charity groups they even received and accepted an invite to a garden party with Royalty at Hillsborough Castle once as members of one of these groups.Something I confess I wouldn't have accepted,but then they didn't see stereotypes,they saw people who they respected,and respected them in return.

We didn't go around thinking we were akin to black people in Alabama,nor attribute all of life's many inevitable disappointments to the fact that we were Catholics.We just got on with it.

Did they win it in a competition

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12244
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1717 on: December 07, 2017, 02:23:20 PM »
Yawn

tonto1888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1718 on: December 07, 2017, 02:36:04 PM »
No.It only takes one fact to explode a myth.Those who wanted work,like my parents,found it,even though it was low paid.I lived in three different areas in Portadown,growing up,all predominantly Protestant,so housing was not a problem,neither was there a problem living in harmony with neighbours who would lend a helping hand if needed as we would to them.Those of my generation who wanted to get on and were prepared to work,were not denied opportunities.

to read between the lines, those of your generation who were denied opportunities were the ones who didn't want to get on and weren't prepared to work. Which is a load of nonsense

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12244
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1719 on: December 07, 2017, 03:07:00 PM »
Well how did we get on then in Black Portydown? Yes I think "discrimination" is used  as an excuse for a lot of failings.But there was work and opportunity for everyone.

tonto1888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1720 on: December 07, 2017, 03:10:29 PM »
Well how did we get on then in Black Portydown? Yes I think "discrimination" is used  as an excuse for a lot of failings.But there was work and opportunity for everyone.

for everyone? Really? Just because you and yours got on fairly well, and Im glad you did, did not mean everyone did Tony.

Syferus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12744
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1721 on: December 07, 2017, 03:11:50 PM »
Why do ye lads given him the attention he craves? Itís ye that need to excercise some self control. Even what seems like the smartest comeback in your head still means youíre giving him what heís looking for.

tonto1888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1722 on: December 07, 2017, 03:19:01 PM »
Why do ye lads given him the attention he craves? Itís ye that need to excercise some self control. Even what seems like the smartest comeback in your head still means youíre giving him what heís looking for.

I do agree with you but my mother's family are the same generation as Tony. They also grew up in Portadown, in a protestant estate. I don't like what Tony is alluding to

Milltown Row2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15622
  • It was the Ref that did it!!
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1723 on: December 07, 2017, 03:30:11 PM »
Tony you can't hide from the fact that there was huge discrimination in the North, the big industrial companies hired protestant working class people, their kids joined and then their kids joined the company, there was no real application forms filled out prior to the 60/70's

Belfast had, Harlands, Shorts, NI water, NI electric and Mackies as your major engineering employers, up to the very early 90's (from my own personal experience) 90% percent of the employess were from a protestant background, catholics didnt apply to these places for a few reasons, fear being one, rejection another, wrong part of town and wrong religion..

Now when the equality commission came in and forced these companies to employ everyone we still had years of discrimination to fix, people still didnt want to work there... its changed now though, not fully 50/50 and some of these employers are no more but i dont think there is a job out there that hasnt got procedures in place to ensure the best person gets the job or a policy in place to encourage a 50/50 workplace, be it catholic/protestant/black/white/ and the LBGT crowd..

My dad had to work in the buliding game because that was the only thing available for him when he left school, mum went and worked in the biggest employer of catholics in Belfast, the Royal hospital, to be fair to them they never tried to stop me taking up an apprenticeship with Harlands, in the 80's.. an engineering qualification and trade were in short supply in Belfast for catholics, but the more that applied for these jobs in these type of companies the better as it showed the way to others that while it was a cold house for catholics it was the only way to break cycle of jobs for the boys..

Your background Tony is the exception rather the rule, yes there is view of people claiming benefits and a culture of it in working class catholics areas, thats because that was the only way to survive, and its very hard to break that culture when generations of those families have known nothing else, but its changing hopefully
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

T Fearon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12244
    • View Profile
Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1724 on: December 07, 2017, 03:38:23 PM »
I am sure like me you know a lot of people who neither worked nor wanted.I am not saying discrimination didn't happen but it was and is still exaggerated.I can only opine on my own family and my parents oft repeated words,there's work for those who want it. Catholics had access to all public services etc and the Catholic education system was fully facilitated.

The middle classes on both sides had it easy,no peace walls etc.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:41:00 PM by T Fearon »