Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 76591 times)

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1695 on: December 06, 2017, 11:10:48 PM »
Maurice Hayes,Catholic and widely credited with Down GAAs emergence in the 1960s,was NI Ombudsman,decades ago.

I can only go from my own experience,discrimination was not nearly as bad as made out,my pre troubles  primary school years were carefree,my parents were never out of work and we had as much or as little as our Protestant neighbours.I happen to believe that if we had that life in Portadown,and it did involve hard work,then anyone else could have done the same.No doors were closed.

Are you saying for example that Catholic middle classes did not dwell in the leafy suburbs,in Malone Road?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:12:19 PM by T Fearon »

randomusername

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1696 on: December 06, 2017, 11:12:36 PM »
Maurice Hayes,Catholic and widely credited with Down GAAs emergence in the 1960s,was NI Ombudsman,decades ago.

I can only go from my own experience,discrimination was not nearly as bad as made out,my primary school years were carefree,my parents were never out of work and we had as much or as little as our Protestant neighbours.I happen to believe that if we had that life in Portadown,and it did involve hard work,then anyone else could have done the same.

Are you saying for example that Catholic middle classes did not dwell in the leafy suburbs,in Malone Road?

Not many of them anyway, nationalists used to poll less than 10% in South Belfast.

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1697 on: December 06, 2017, 11:21:26 PM »
Well they did in Portadown,well away from the housing estates containing less privileged Catholics and Protestants.Im pretty sure in my very young day Portadown had only one Dentist,and he was a Catholic,as were the majority of the town's General Practitioners who all ran surgeries in their (big) homes,in the pre Health Centre days.

randomusername

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1698 on: December 06, 2017, 11:26:45 PM »
Well they did in Portadown,well away from the housing estates containing less privileged Catholics and Protestants.Im pretty sure in my very young day Portadown had only one Dentist,and he was a Catholic,as were the majority of the town's General Practitioners who all ran surgeries in their (big) homes,in the pre Health Centre days.

Well for whatever reason it seemed to be the exeption rather than the rule back then. For example in Cookstown:

"Unemployment in Cookstown is 35.6 percent, the second highest rate in the province.

The Cookstown District Council, in which the Protestants have a one-vote majority, excludes Catholic councilors from all committees and external bodies on which councilors normally sit. In 1979, the Fair Employment Agency found no Catholics employed in the Council's offices; only 13 percent of public works employees were Catholic.

In the meat factory, which is one of the larger and better-paying employers, the Fair Employment Agency found only 33 Catholics in a workforce of 316 this year. The plant agreed to encourage Catholic applicants. ''

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1699 on: December 06, 2017, 11:27:16 PM »
Even my maternal grandmother made her way as a young girl,from Catholic East Tyrone to Black Portadown,to find work as a servant girl in one of the big houses.As she and my parents often said there was always work for anyone who wanted it.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1700 on: December 06, 2017, 11:48:51 PM »
So there was no discrimination against Catholics
70% of employees of the "Londonderry"City Council were Catholics
The Derry guildhall was full of Catholic employees
Catholics got equal opportunity of Council houses
And so on.
You'd wonder what all that civil rights agitation wad all about back in 1968.
Probably lazy Catholics who wouldn't work or apply for Council houses just wanting to cause trouble.....
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T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1701 on: December 07, 2017, 05:33:23 AM »
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination.I am saying that it was over exaggerated and giving the extremely positive example of my own family in an overwhelmingly Protestant town to support my claim.In any event,due to a raft of reforms, institutional  discrimination was largely defeated 40 years ago.I know of at least two retail catholic family businesses that were established in Portadown town centre in the mid 1960s that are still going strong in the same location,today.That couldn't happen without the support of all the people.

Seriously in my life I've heard the "just because I am a Catholic" excuse used for every possible scenario,from failing exams to not getting picked for football teams!

I seriously don't think we would have had the same opportunities in the impoverished South,growing up.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:59:26 AM by T Fearon »

heganboy

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1702 on: December 07, 2017, 07:04:11 AM »
Do the words "sample size" mean anything to you?
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1703 on: December 07, 2017, 07:43:12 AM »
No.It only takes one fact to explode a myth.Those who wanted work,like my parents,found it,even though it was low paid.I lived in three different areas in Portadown,growing up,all predominantly Protestant,so housing was not a problem,neither was there a problem living in harmony with neighbours who would lend a helping hand if needed as we would to them.Those of my generation who wanted to get on and were prepared to work,were not denied opportunities.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 09:04:18 AM by T Fearon »

AQMP

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1704 on: December 07, 2017, 09:03:32 AM »
No.It only takes one fact to explode a myth.Those who wanted work,like my parents,found it,even though it was low paid.I lived in three different areas in Portadown,growing up,all predominantly Protestant,so housing was not a problem.Those of my generation who wanted to get on and were prepared to work,were not denied opportunities.

Are you Gerry Armstrong in disguise??

Read over some of your posts.  Your maternal grandmother was a servant and your parents had low paid jobs...but sure they were grateful for the benevolence of their Unionist friends and neighbours.  Who needs a vote?  In any society there are always opportunities for children who want to go up chimneys.

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1705 on: December 07, 2017, 09:09:00 AM »
They were in jobs,with the exact same pay and conditions as their unskilled protestant colleagues,ffs.
We lived in the same houses as our Protestant neighbours.Got the same education and sat the same exams,had to get the same grades as Protestants to get to University.Much the same as it is today.Better qualifications and skills lead to better paid jobs.

seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1706 on: December 07, 2017, 09:26:37 AM »
Even my maternal grandmother made her way as a young girl,from Catholic East Tyrone to Black Portadown,to find work as a servant girl in one of the big houses.As she and my parents often said there was always work for anyone who wanted it.
Wages and conditions are more important than just having a job And the plural of anecdote is not data. .
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seafoid

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1707 on: December 07, 2017, 09:29:09 AM »
I am not saying there wasn't discrimination.I am saying that it was over exaggerated and giving the extremely positive example of my own family in an overwhelmingly Protestant town to support my claim.In any event,due to a raft of reforms, institutional  discrimination was largely defeated 40 years ago.I know of at least two retail catholic family businesses that were established in Portadown town centre in the mid 1960s that are still going strong in the same location,today.That couldn't happen without the support of all the people.

Seriously in my life I've heard the "just because I am a Catholic" excuse used for every possible scenario,from failing exams to not getting picked for football teams!

I seriously don't think we would have had the same opportunities in the impoverished South,growing up.
The southern economy took off in the 60s.
That was when the protestant industries began to collapse as well.
The south leveraged education while the north descended into violence.
That is why the south is stronger now  .
"you can try and intimidate us, but f**k youse, we're going to win an All-Ireland anyway"

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1708 on: December 07, 2017, 09:36:15 AM »
Funny,my grammar school education began practically at the outbreak of the troubles  in 1970,my brother's in 1971.Neither troubles,nor religious or community background harmed us.True,the loyalist workers strike in May 74 was a pain in the arse,travelling to and from school,but we managed very well.I graduated in 1981,my brother collected a Sigerson Cup medal in 1982, and qualified as a Doctor a year later.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1709 on: December 07, 2017, 09:41:51 AM »
To summarise up the North was a wonderful place from 1922 to 1969 until that John Hume started the "Troubles".
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