A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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vallankumous

Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 01:23:14 PM

Sturgeon has played it very well and the Dáil could easily take advantage of the chaos. But they probably won't.

As for this: "If the UK breaks up we will just make another Union."

You seem to think this will just happened and all will be grand.

The last European Country that I can think of that broke up was Yugoslavia. Blind nationalism and xenophobia were among of the causes of that too. For balance it should be mentioned that on the other hand the Czechs and Slovaks separated peaceably in 1993. Which would it be for Britain?

Peacefully if at all as it's not really a break up just renewing the vows.
English and Scottish Nationalism trumph British Nationalism.

vallankumous

Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3/b8e7ece0-3ba5-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0.html

When the Scots last voted in an independence referendum in 2014 the outcome was 55:45 to preserve the union. But during that campaign those on the unionist side — and I count myself among those who believe that the break-up of the UK would be a tragedy — could argue that Scotland had the best of both worlds: the historical political, cultural and economic ties with England, Wales and Northern Ireland alongside with the wider vision and opportunities afforded by the EU.

Now a choice is unavoidable. And the odds must be that the English nationalism that drove the Brexit vote will succeed where Scottish nationalism has so far failed in reading the rites over the UK.

It won't matter and it's the best way.
It took a war and years of carnage for Ireland to arrive at the spot where we have national identity and independence but know that we need to have a very close relationship with Britain.
If Scotland arrive at that peacfully and quicker than us it'll be good.

muppet

Quote from: vallankumous on June 27, 2016, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 01:24:57 PM

Why would the EU agree to any of that? Especially given the chaos that Cameron has dragged every into?

Because they want to.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36637232

The Bank of England now expects "the economy tips into recession over the next two quarters".
So expects tax rises and spending cuts. The pound is at a 30 year low. Expects job losses over the next 12 months. Both mean political parties have effectively no functioning leader. The is now the lamest duck Prime Minister I've ever seen. The only agreement in the EU is that they are angry.

You see the best case scenario as the solutions to all of the issues. Best of luck with that.


MWWSI 2017

vallankumous

He added: "If the UK government needs a reasonable amount of time to do that, we respect that," but said that the uncertainty could not continue forever.

Forever is a long time

muppet

Many in Europe never wanted Britain joining the EU in the first place.

It has been a pretty obstructive and disruptive member over the years.

It has just caused absolute chaos in the EU.

And you think the EU will give Britain everything it wants on the way out?

MWWSI 2017

seafoid

Until they trigger article 50 the status quo ante prevails

European political leadership since 2007 has been piss poor.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

No wides

Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 01:37:58 PM
Quote from: vallankumous on June 27, 2016, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 01:24:57 PM

Why would the EU agree to any of that? Especially given the chaos that Cameron has dragged every into?

Because they want to.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36637232

The Bank of England now expects "the economy tips into recession over the next two quarters".
So expects tax rises and spending cuts. The pound is at a 30 year low. Expects job losses over the next 12 months. Both mean political parties have effectively no functioning leader. The is now the lamest duck Prime Minister I've ever seen. The only agreement in the EU is that they are angry.

You see the best case scenario as the solutions to all of the issues. Best of luck with that.

For something that has never happened before you seem to have all the answers, you are wasted on a discussion board!

vallankumous

#622
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 01:48:28 PM
Many in Europe never wanted Britain joining the EU in the first place.

It has been a pretty obstructive and disruptive member over the years.

It has just caused absolute chaos in the EU.

And you think the EU will give Britain everything it wants on the way out?

Many didn't want an EU. None of that matters. It's not a game of I told Ye So.
The EU will capitalise on this, it's what they're designed to do. Britain will have to take a hit but not to the extent of pushing them further away.
It has not been a disruptive member it's been a very good member and like every COuntry (except Ireland) it has had it's issues. It's also got a couple of idiotic MEPs which we all have but for some reason he has a place on Irish TV and has had an impact on the Tory Party.

This is not Chaos. This is the Joe Brolly analysis. If you are not the leader you oppose the leader in order to be relevant. Every Tom Dick and Harry are writting the same things when they could just let one person write the story and agree with it.

Britain is not on it's way out, it's on it's way to have a chat with the EU to see how they can bluff there way through this. If not that then to see how long they can drag it out for.

Not unlike Bush declaring the war in Iraq as over or Obama taking the troops home.


muppet

Quote from: vallankumous on June 27, 2016, 02:12:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 01:48:28 PM
Many in Europe never wanted Britain joining the EU in the first place.

It has been a pretty obstructive and disruptive member over the years.

It has just caused absolute chaos in the EU.

And you think the EU will give Britain everything it wants on the way out?

Many didn't want an EU. None of that matters. It's not a game of I told Ye So.
The EU will capitalise on this, it's what they're designed to do. Britain will have to take a hit but not to the extent of pushing them further away.
It has not been a disruptive member it's been a very good member and like every COuntry (except Ireland) it has had it's issues. It's also got a couple of idiotic MEPs which we all have but for some reason he has a place on Irish TV and has had an impact on the Tory Party.

This is not Chaos. This is the Joe Brolly analysis. If you are not the leader you oppose the leader in order to be relevant. Every Tom Dick and Harry are writting the same things when they could just let one person write the story and agree with it.

Britain is not on it's way out, it's on it's way to have a chat with the EU to see how they can bluff there way through this. If not that then to see how long they can drag it out for.

Not unlike Bush declaring the war in Iraq as over or Obama taking the troops home.

So you are saying Britain will ignore the vote?

I wish they would, but there is little chance of that, unless the next few weeks/months sees a serious economic crisis to force them down that road.
MWWSI 2017

vallankumous

Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 02:35:30 PM

So you are saying Britain will ignore the vote?

I wish they would, but there is little chance of that, unless the next few weeks/months sees a serious economic crisis to force them down that road.

Not ignore it but just do enough to be able to say you're doing something.
Much like FG approach to the GFA. Here we are 20 years later and we have an assembly where nothing happens .
A few leaders later and it's not such a big deal.

Orior

Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

muppet

Quote from: vallankumous on June 27, 2016, 02:47:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 02:35:30 PM

So you are saying Britain will ignore the vote?

I wish they would, but there is little chance of that, unless the next few weeks/months sees a serious economic crisis to force them down that road.

Not ignore it but just do enough to be able to say you're doing something.
Much like FG approach to the GFA. Here we are 20 years later and we have an assembly where nothing happens .
A few leaders later and it's not such a big deal.

We have already been through this phase this year with Cameron demanding a deal for Britain. Thatcher did the same in the 1980s when she got the rebate. Many in the EU are sick of Britain and especially the Tories.

The UK markets have already lost more since Brexit than they lost after Lehman Brothers collapsed. Sterling is at a 31 year low against the Dollar.

MWWSI 2017

smelmoth

In Stormont the Shinners avoid any mention of a border poll and in the Dail the government reject any notion of it.

Political stability considered more valuable than political opportunism. Obviously not all politicians are dickheads

muppet

Quote from: smelmoth on June 27, 2016, 03:03:42 PM
In Stormont the Shinners avoid any mention of a border poll and in the Dail the government reject any notion of it.

Political stability considered more valuable than political opportunism. Obviously not all politicians are d**kheads

Adams was the one calling for a border poll.

As for stability, there is no stability after the vote. There is limited time to do something about the massive problems it could trigger for us on this island, some more than others obviously. Doing nothing and calling it stability, is only an option if you can't think of anything better to do, which is probably exactly how they see it.
MWWSI 2017

smelmoth

Quote from: muppet on June 27, 2016, 03:08:28 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 27, 2016, 03:03:42 PM
In Stormont the Shinners avoid any mention of a border poll and in the Dail the government reject any notion of it.

Political stability considered more valuable than political opportunism. Obviously not all politicians are d**kheads

Adams was the one calling for a border poll.

As for stability, there is no stability after the vote. There is limited time to do something about the massive problems it could trigger for us on this island, some more than others obviously. Doing nothing and calling it stability, is only an option if you can't think of anything better to do, which is probably exactly how they see it.

A decision was made not to throw further unnecessary instability into the NI situation. Are you seriously lamenting that?