A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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T Fearon

All down to perceptions,both sides perceive their armies weren't terrorists just defenders of the people.

N Ireland does exist and will continue to exist for two simple reasons. 1.The majority of its people,now arguably on both sides,do not want constitutional change. 2.The freestate neither wants nor can afford N Ireland.

Once you accept these blindingly obvious and irrefutable facts,you by logic,accept that the politics of unionism and nationalism are obsolete and that new parties and a new political focus is needed,on attainable goals like fostering and prioritising  a common Northern Irish ethos and identity.

No wides

All completely funded by the British Government!  I can it working!!

T Fearon

The alternative is? Funded by the Irish government? Definitely can't see that working,without a pile of bailouts

Rossfan

How much tax/ revenue do the Brits collect in the 6 Cos.
We keep hearing how much they put in but never how much they take out.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

No wides

But you can't have a Northern Ireland ethos when the British government holds the purse strings, where on the British Cabinet there is a Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, where the economy is held up by the coffers of Queen Lizzy for the inept inefficient Civil Servants that are paid to support this false economy.

armaghniac

I don't believe that people in the 6 counties are inferior to those in the 26 counties. I don't wish to see them subsidised by the 26 counties nor do I see any need for them to be, people need to buck up and work for a United Ireland in which both parts are equal not one leeching off the other.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

T Fearon

Oh dear.The message,no,fact that the 26 counties does not want,nor can it afford,the North has not penetrated minds here.

Apparently at one stage the North of Ireland was a net contributor to the British exchequer,and who knows, if a new political focus was found, new investment might be attracted and those days could return.

Britain wants nothing to do with the North,I concede,but unfortunately (for the British) it is the constitutional guardian.Far from wishing to impose British culture,or anything else British here,it is happy enough (or obliged) to pay the bills and let us get on with it,hopefully in a peaceful manner without causing them or anyone else any problems. For that reason,the shaping of a Northern Irish ethos,is entirely in the hands of the Northern Irish people.

Rossfan

An awful lot of people in the 6 Cos don't particularly want to shape a " northern Irish ethos" whatever that might be.
Time for ye to get an economy up and running and then everyone will want ye.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

smelmoth

Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 12:00:22 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 21, 2016, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 21, 2016, 11:06:37 AM
A toughjob on your hands there General.
Their way of dealing with other cultures to date has been burning them out!

Who is the their in that sentence?
Unionists/ " Ulster British"/ "Loyalists"/ or whatever you want to call them or they want to call themselves.

And is "burning out" the typical reaction of an average unionist to another culture?

Any examples of "burning out" or similar by republicans?

T Fearon

Yes and a normal economy and society will not be built as long a unionist and nationalist tribalism prevails which is my basic point.

smelmoth

Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2016, 08:41:54 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 21, 2016, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 20, 2016, 12:10:00 PM
Apples beat me to it. A unionist in that council area has now come out and said Dungiven is no-go area for Protestants. Whether that statement holds any validity is neither here nor there, the mask has slipped in that the planned development for a new leisure centre was blocked for motives other than "costs"

Neither here nor there?  Shocking stuff
Read back a few pages

What post are you directing me to that supports a claim that it is "neither here nor there" whether an area of NI is a no-go area for one section of the community?

smelmoth

Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2016, 08:51:25 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 21, 2016, 10:04:39 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 20, 2016, 04:11:31 PM
Yet it is with the very people at the heart of these disputes that you want to forge a shared identity with? We can't get mutual respect yet here you are advocating that we all join hands and form some new national identity. Mind boggling.

The key there is mutual. There is not enough mutual respect in NI. All of NI has a distance to travel on this one
Totally agree. Mutual respect and understanding is what's needed. I am biased of course but I get the impression that this is far more evident from SDLP and SF than it is any of the Unionist parties.

If you basing this on politicians then maybe so (mainly because of SDLP) but in terms of everyday people I would have thought the absence of respect is evenly spread.

smelmoth

Quote from: Rossfan on January 23, 2016, 11:49:47 AM
How much tax/ revenue do the Brits collect in the 6 Cos.
We keep hearing how much they put in but never how much they take out.

The only important figure is the difference between the 2. Look up the Barnett formula

general_lee

Quote from: smelmoth on January 23, 2016, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2016, 08:41:54 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 21, 2016, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 20, 2016, 12:10:00 PM
Apples beat me to it. A unionist in that council area has now come out and said Dungiven is no-go area for Protestants. Whether that statement holds any validity is neither here nor there, the mask has slipped in that the planned development for a new leisure centre was blocked for motives other than "costs"

Neither here nor there?  Shocking stuff
Read back a few pages

What post are you directing me to that supports a claim that it is "neither here nor there" whether an area of NI is a no-go area for one section of the community?
When I said neither here nor there, I was referring to the fact that community relations should not impact on community need.

Would you (for example) suggest that the Shankill (or Falls) be relieved of facilities because many people there have to be fenced off from "themmuns"? I don't see what is shocking about any of that.

And when I said read back I was referring to posts regarding the OO who parade in Dungiven. So it would seem Dungiven isn't exactly the no go area it is made out to be - again irrelevant

Rossfan

Quote from: smelmoth on January 23, 2016, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 22, 2016, 12:00:22 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on January 21, 2016, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 21, 2016, 11:06:37 AM
A toughjob on your hands there General.
Their way of dealing with other cultures to date has been burning them out!

Who is the their in that sentence?
Unionists/ " Ulster British"/ "Loyalists"/ or whatever you want to call them or they want to call themselves.

And is "burning out" the typical reaction of an average unionist to another culture?

Any examples of "burning out" or similar by republicans?
Any news reportsI've seen were about Poles, Lithuanians and black sskinned foreigners being burnt out if LoyalistUnionist areas. I haven't seen or heard of anything similar in the Nationalist areas. Obviously Nationalist community able to handle other cultures better.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM