Brexit.

[haranguerer]

Thats exactly the attitude I'm talking about. 'They were lied to and stupidly believed the lies - we are right, and if they just had more sense they'd agree with us'. Seems pretty arrogant, and its being propogated by large sections of the media.

You don't think every side in any vote is lied to, manipulated?

We need to get over ourselves. My point if the vote was rerun tomorrow there would still be a sizeable 'Out' vote, probably a 50/50 chance on winning again, was in relation to discounting those who said afterwards in interviews saying they didn't expect to win etc. Fact is, they did win, in a democratic vote, and talk about re-running or ignoring the result may temporarily defend EU'ness, but would have a much greater and more long standing ill effect in destroying democracy.

For such a huge constitutional change it should have required a 2/3 majority. The vote was really too close for such a massive change to occur.

It was fine when it looked like Remain would win tho, wasn't it?

[BennyCake]

So will they keep going until they get the 'right' answer? The people have spoken, end of.

I notice that there hasn't been a third vote on the Lisbon treaty. I didn't hear Geldof spouting his crap when the Irish were dragged back to the polls!

[maddog]

I firmly believe that if it was to be voted on in the morning it would be 60/40 remain. The amount of people i know that voted out and are now back peddling is just silly. And why ? Because they didn't think Out would actually happen, it was a protest vote and driven by the immigration issue largely.

[haranguerer]

it wouldn't be 50/50 due to the impact it has had on the pound, the various banks etc.

Both sides were lied to but the leave side could not back up what it said and it has zero plan now. Would that have been what most voters expected?

It really shouldn't have been an issue the general public voted on.

It wasn't suppposed to be 50/50 first time round either.

If Remain were also lied to then they wouldn't have been able to back up those either. Of course, now they don't have to.

Well, perhaps, but it was, and now we should be at the very least acknowledging the result.

[seafoid]

Leadsom is odious

[BennyCake]

I firmly believe that if it was to be voted on in the morning it would be 60/40 remain. The amount of people i know that voted out and are now back peddling is just silly. And why ? Because they didn't think Out would actually happen, it was a protest vote and driven by the immigration issue largely.

So you've spoke to 40 odd million people on this?

If ran again, Remain would probably win. But people would change to Remain because they've been told by the media that it's wrong.

If immigration was their reason for Leave, that's their choice. It's their vote.

[haranguerer]

Thats exactly the attitude I'm talking about. 'They were lied to and stupidly believed the lies - we are right, and if they just had more sense they'd agree with us'. Seems pretty arrogant, and its being propogated by large sections of the media.

You don't think every side in any vote is lied to, manipulated?

We need to get over ourselves. My point if the vote was rerun tomorrow there would still be a sizeable 'Out' vote, probably a 50/50 chance on winning again, was in relation to discounting those who said afterwards in interviews saying they didn't expect to win etc. Fact is, they did win, in a democratic vote, and talk about re-running or ignoring the result may temporarily defend EU'ness, but would have a much greater and more long standing ill effect in destroying democracy.

And it is true, nothing dangerous about that. Its fact. I said a good proportion not all.

You are failing to see that the same media that are now propagating this message are same said media that spread the lies and the hate that mainly led to the vote going the way it went.

Take into the fact that of the four regions that took the vote, two voted to stay so where is the democracy for those regions?

Do you read the daily mail, the express? No? You do as we all probably do - read the papers which reinforce your own views. Thats the media who is propagating this image of idiots voting 'Leave'. Tell you one thing - there were a hell of a lot of them. Thats democracy. Perhaps there should be an IQ test/educational standard to be achieved before being allowed to vote??

You've said it - regions. Like it or not, we're a region of the UK for these purposes. To break down what you're suggesting fully, its that anyone who votes against the eventual result, should be entitled to ignore it. That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

[BennyCake]

it wouldn't be 50/50 due to the impact it has had on the pound, the various banks etc.

Both sides were lied to but the leave side could not back up what it said and it has zero plan now. Would that have been what most voters expected?

It really shouldn't have been an issue the general public voted on.

It wasn't suppposed to be 50/50 first time round either.

If Remain were also lied to then they wouldn't have been able to back up those either. Of course, now they don't have to.

Well, perhaps, but it was, and now we should be at the very least acknowledging the result.

Second point - spot on.

[haranguerer]

I firmly believe that if it was to be voted on in the morning it would be 60/40 remain. The amount of people i know that voted out and are now back peddling is just silly. And why ? Because they didn't think Out would actually happen, it was a protest vote and driven by the immigration issue largely.

How many people did you speak to before who said they were voting 'Leave? I was speaking to very few, and came to the conclusion that in this age of social media everyone is media savvy and outwardly goes with the populist view, regardless of their actual view/vote. I certainly saw v little correlation between what people were saying and what happened.

[NAG1]

Thats exactly the attitude I'm talking about. 'They were lied to and stupidly believed the lies - we are right, and if they just had more sense they'd agree with us'. Seems pretty arrogant, and its being propogated by large sections of the media.

You don't think every side in any vote is lied to, manipulated?

We need to get over ourselves. My point if the vote was rerun tomorrow there would still be a sizeable 'Out' vote, probably a 50/50 chance on winning again, was in relation to discounting those who said afterwards in interviews saying they didn't expect to win etc. Fact is, they did win, in a democratic vote, and talk about re-running or ignoring the result may temporarily defend EU'ness, but would have a much greater and more long standing ill effect in destroying democracy.

And it is true, nothing dangerous about that. Its fact. I said a good proportion not all.

You are failing to see that the same media that are now propagating this message are same said media that spread the lies and the hate that mainly led to the vote going the way it went.

Take into the fact that of the four regions that took the vote, two voted to stay so where is the democracy for those regions?

Do you read the daily mail, the express? No? You do as we all probably do - read the papers which reinforce your own views. Thats the media who is propagating this image of idiots voting 'Leave'. Tell you one thing - there were a hell of a lot of them. Thats democracy. Perhaps there should be an IQ test/educational standard to be achieved before being allowed to vote??

You've said it - regions. Like it or not, we're a region of the UK for these purposes. To break down what you're suggesting fully, its that anyone who votes against the eventual result, should be entitled to ignore it. That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

And who controls the Right leaning media?
Who is trying to influence who the next PM is?

I'm not saying that there should be a IQ test for voters, but at the same time when people are blatantly lied too in an election campaign which naturally influences the vote there is also something wrong with that. Especially when it is being driven and controlled to suit the agenda of one individual.

[screenexile]

I stand by the view that anyone who voted Leave is stupid.

Banks and any profitable business warned before the Election that a Leave vote would be a catastrophe and they would have to seriously consider relocating, Economists told us that Sterling would tumble and there would be another recession, anybody with half a brain knows that NI is being propped up by Europe and we are now going to get shafted.

People voted for Immigrants to be deported and for more money for the NHS. Immigrants will not be deported and the NHS is not getting more money so what exactly did these idiots vote for?!!

There was a General Election in May last year where people should have exercised their protest vote the EU referendum was not the time to do it and what we have seen since the Vote has showed that.

As Agent K said "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

[screenexile]

http://www.joe.ie/news/heres-how-much-it-will-brexit-trade-negotiations-will-cost-the-uk/551735?utm_content=bufferfc310&utm_medium=Social+organic&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer

[seafoid]

I stand by the view that anyone who voted Leave is stupid.

Banks and any profitable business warned before the Election that a Leave vote would be a catastrophe and they would have to seriously consider relocating, Economists told us that Sterling would tumble and there would be another recession, anybody with half a brain knows that NI is being propped up by Europe and we are now going to get shafted.

People voted for Immigrants to be deported and for more money for the NHS. Immigrants will not be deported and the NHS is not getting more money so what exactly did these idiots vote for?!!

There was a General Election in May last year where people should have exercised their protest vote the EU referendum was not the time to do it and what we have seen since the Vote has showed that.

As Agent K said "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

Immigration is one of the few growth generators in modern economies. GDP is based on money spent so the more people the more money is spent.
Over half of Swiss growth since 1999 is immigration related.

We need a new economic system

[armaghniac]

This was a profoundly immature debate, the first principle should be that if those advocating change have left unknowns that you do not vote for change until they propose a clear plan. In this case Leave produced no real plan, but put forward the notion that the idea of a plan or listening to experts wasn't needed.
If you have an election and parties promise x,y,z, then if they do not deliver you can throw them out next time. In this case those who promised x,y,z have fecked off and left other people to deliver.

You've said it - regions. Like it or not, we're a region of the UK for these purposes. To break down what you're suggesting fully, its that anyone who votes against the eventual result, should be entitled to ignore it. That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

Northern Ireland is a special case, it has had an international agreement to say so. What is being proposed here is simple colonialism and a clear renegation on the Good Friday Agreement.

I stand by the view that anyone who voted Leave is stupid.

Not everyone. Some regard the collateral damage as worth it. e.g. DUP/TUV bigots here, or people in England who want rid of immigrants.

[general_lee]

Anyone who voted leave is an idiot. Especially anyone from here who voted Leave. Saw some unionist cattle dealer explain his reasons and thought to myself what a f**king eejit. Even the UFU couldn't bring themselves to publicly support Leave. Gotta admire unionism's faith in the tories though lol haha