Just wondered what the consenus was with supporters in Derry?
I am in disbelief that the Derry County Board don't realise that Derry have the genuine quality to mount a challenge for SAM, and that they seem to be so content with what i see as inadequacies within the Management set-up.
We need somebody that is very astute along the line ( someone who can influence a game in a positive way by seein when and where to make changes ). Someone who will bring a professional approach to squad( I still maintain our County team are still a long way of the likes of Tyrone and Armagh as regards both physical and mental preparation ).
There is no doubt the talent is in Derry. Chances of winning All-Irelands appear not too often in Derry, therefore why jeopardise a very realistic opportunity?
If u were hiring a manager to run your business, would you hold onto someone 'not up to it', just to be mannerly?
The point i want to make here is that surely the supporters in Derry realise the massive mistake the county board are about to make, and surely something can be done to slavage what could be a disaster?
Quote from: Oak Leafer on August 24, 2007, 01:17:33 AM
I am in disbelief that the Derry County Board don't realise that Derry have the genuine quality to mount a challenge for SAM...
I'm in disbelief that you're in disbelief! :P
Are you serious? yous are as far away from winning sam as yous were 4 years ago
Further. Then it was ten years. Now it's fourteen. Unless there's a new litter of Tohills.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 24, 2007, 01:20:22 AM
Quote from: Oak Leafer on August 24, 2007, 01:17:33 AM
I am in disbelief that the Derry County Board don't realise that Derry have the genuine quality to mount a challenge for SAM...
I'm in disbelief that you're in disbelief! :P
What are you on about? It is without question that Derry have genuine quality! Did you watch the Dublin match? How many outstanding performers were from the Dublin team? Yet they are being tipped as favourites for the AI and have been up there since the start of the year. A bit of experience and belief in our team and we won't be too far away next year!
As for Crozier. I'm still undecided if he is the man to lead us but I think the heroics of the latter part of our season mean he should be allowed to decide his own fate. As PH mentioned in yesterday's IN, we can't have another scenarion where our CB got rid of Coleman after an All Ireland win and when they got rid of Moran in '95 and 2004!
Quote from: screenexile on August 24, 2007, 09:35:21 AM
As PH mentioned in yesterday's IN, we can't have another scenarion where our CB got rid of Coleman after an All Ireland win and when they got rid of Moran in '95 and 2004!
What was the problem in getting rid of Moran in 2005? He had three years - three poor enough years at that.
As for Crozier, earlier this year I was convinced that this would/should be his last. But if you had asked any Derry supporter at the beginning of the year what the team's objectives should be for the season, a place in NFL Division 1 next season as well as an All-Ireland q-final appearance may have been the absolute pinnacle of ambition. Surely this would have been Crozier's 'brief' at the beginning of the season, and whatever way you look at it he achieved that.
Therefore, my mind has probably changed on the length of his tenure. I feel that despite not being wholly convincing as a manager (either within a game or as a man-manager), Derry made a great improvement this year, and this should be allowed to continue onto next year. The Monaghan game was a watershed for the season. The team for that game had 3/4 players missing that should have been playing. Coupled with umpteen errors (and i'm talking about 4 or 5 times were Derry defenders literally handed the ball to a Monaghan player for them to score a point), Derry did well to only come out with a 2-point defeat against a team who could/should have beaten Tyrone and Kerry. Crozier made the necessary changes for the qualifiers, and it was a team transformed. I believe that if this Cork team can contest All-Ireland Finals, then so can Derry!
There is still a conflict in my support for Crozier though, in that more could be got out of this team. But, as usual, we are not exactly coming down with managers capable of doing a better job.
Quote from: screenexile on August 24, 2007, 09:35:21 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on August 24, 2007, 01:20:22 AM
Quote from: Oak Leafer on August 24, 2007, 01:17:33 AM
I am in disbelief that the Derry County Board don't realise that Derry have the genuine quality to mount a challenge for SAM...
I'm in disbelief that you're in disbelief! :P
What are you on about?
QED SE, QED...
Quote from: Will Hunting on August 24, 2007, 10:06:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 24, 2007, 09:35:21 AM
As PH mentioned in yesterday's IN, we can't have another scenarion where our CB got rid of Coleman after an All Ireland win and when they got rid of Moran in '95 and 2004!
What was the problem in getting rid of Moran in 2005? He had three years - three poor enough years at that.
As for Crozier, earlier this year I was convinced that this would/should be his last. But if you had asked any Derry supporter at the beginning of the year what the team's objectives should be for the season, a place in NFL Division 1 next season as well as an All-Ireland q-final appearance may have been the absolute pinnacle of ambition. Surely this would have been Crozier's 'brief' at the beginning of the season, and whatever way you look at it he achieved that.
Therefore, my mind has probably changed on the length of his tenure. I feel that despite not being wholly convincing as a manager (either within a game or as a man-manager), Derry made a great improvement this year, and this should be allowed to continue onto next year. The Monaghan game was a watershed for the season. The team for that game had 3/4 players missing that should have been playing. Coupled with umpteen errors (and i'm talking about 4 or 5 times were Derry defenders literally handed the ball to a Monaghan player for them to score a point), Derry did well to only come out with a 2-point defeat against a team who could/should have beaten Tyrone and Kerry. Crozier made the necessary changes for the qualifiers, and it was a team transformed. I believe that if this Cork team can contest All-Ireland Finals, then so can Derry!
There is still a conflict in my support for Crozier though, in that more could be got out of this team. But, as usual, we are not exactly coming down with managers capable of doing a better job.
I think thats the problem, who else can Derry appoint. McIver is back with Donegal and he is the only realistic man that could bring Derry on from their current position. The rest of the former Derry play now turned manager brigade still dont convince me.
Joe Kernan the only other 'attractive' and qusi-realistic candidate, maybe Grimley also.
But a lot depends on the county board and their cheque book in relation to their desire to win.
I'm not convinced that they are convinced. We know Derry have the talent, and it is talent alone that got Derry to the AI q-final.
If the county board were serious, they would begin to make enquires and also start fundraising - if they are that cash strapped.
imo a good run of results on the back of the players clicking, positional changes being enforced on the side and then it was realised that a gameplan had been stumbled upon (as opposed to being planned).
It glosses over the huge inadequcies of the manager , but the final shot in the foot to remind us of our team leaders clouseau-like qualities , was to substitute a willing and able MOTM (first half) Paul Murphy at half time in an All Ireland QF.
You would find it hard to see such cutting edge incompetence anywhere else (unless the fai or governmental departments).
Quote from: 5iveTimes on August 24, 2007, 10:56:45 AM
After the Monaghan game everyone was calling for Croziers head, a few good results later and the same people were calling for him to be given another year. Winning an Ulster title should be Derrys priority, before thinking about an All Ireland,
if we could get an alternative, I'd drive Paddy away myself.
Plenty of teams have won the AI via the back door.
Id take an ulster title -which is def achieveable - and also obv an AI - which I also think is possible, Luck plays a huge part in it. Derry, Sligo and meath were all Q-finalists this year so it shows that on any given day , teams with momentum from the qualifiers could sneak in and steal it- not certain, but the chance is always there.
Im long past calling for Paddys head.
Potential managers (a moot point given that Crozier will continue, but anyway):
Kernan: not a viable potential manager for me. Did he not say that he wouldn't manage another county team? And even if he did, i'd say he'd want to keep out of Ulster.
Grimley: not interested in Derry
McIver: back with Donegal by the looks of it, and more interested in the Tyrone job than Derry. We can't be having that.
Boylan: past it maybe
McHugh: possibly the best manager we could have. But i think he hates us for some reason, and wouldn't be interested in managing us. He is probably holding out until Donegal have decent potential in his eyes.
Cassidy: the only manager worth trying from within the county, and i believe he will be Derry's next manager.
Quote from: screenexile on August 24, 2007, 09:35:21 AM
What are you on about? It is without question that Derry have genuine quality! Did you watch the Dublin match? How many outstanding performers were from the Dublin team?
This is exactly the point. Dublin did not have anyone who was outstanding with the exception of perhaps Brendan Brogan but they still managed to beat a Derry team who played at 75-80% of their capabilities.
I am of the firm opinion which was the same after the monaghan game that he should go. We were beaten last year comprehensively by donegal and this year by monaghan in the Ulster championship...tactics and team attitude really poor. This was when he had the chance to reallly prepare the team, stamp his own personality and style on the team....the team performace was just terrible on those two days. In last years qualifiers we got beat by LONGFORD ffs and this year we certainly improved in the qualifiers, but I really believe that the bad manners the players took after the monaghan game was the catalist for the season transforming,,,they beat armagh..the performance was forced out of them...6 days later mayo, Crozier had absolutely no time with the team for either match, due club championship games in derry, the next thing we know we have an immenently beatable Laios team to beat for us to get playing Dublin in the quater finals...the team is on a role ...its all momentum. Credit to Crozier in making positonal changes to improve the team, but why did it take 18 months for him to see them. Nice man no doubt but he does not have the venom needed for this level. This county board need to make the right decision to progress the team. i believe we have the talent within the county to appoint a manger. Lynchboy you cannot offer an opinion on managers in derry the same way you cannot offer an opinion on club players within derry ....why..because you never see them in action 98% of the time.
Didn't take long for the knifes to sharpen.
So Max, who would you like to see in the management seat??
Actually, i've no need to ask ;)
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on August 24, 2007, 04:33:31 PM. Lynchboy you cannot offer an opinion on managers in derry the same way you cannot offer an opinion on club players within derry ....why..because you never see them in action 98% of the time.
I can offer up an opinion on who gets the county managers job, as they should NOT be some novice intercounty manager, Derry needs a man with intercounty managerial experience.
eg Cassidy has not covered himself in glory with cavan , and until he proves himself in the intercounty managerial stakes, he is obv unproven and not what we need right now with such a panel of great talent (glad to see you have at last realised this BTQ)
So yes I dont see too many club games, and I also dont want to see a mere club manager taking this current Derry side therefore I am at no disadvantage by not seeing club football. I think my view on what /who should be managing the side is valid.
ziggy, my opinion on crozier as Derry boss was formed before he was even appointed the job, and I have never deviated from this stance.
i want an ulster title next year. there is alot of football in this derry team so i think crozier cant get it all out of them let someone eles try
I watched the Dublin game again after I got home and how McGuckin wasnt taken off was a complete joke, he's a class player but was way off the pace and had been carded and ticked. Also he shouldnt have changed the shape and went for 3 all in on top of the goal second half, the lack of space inside cost Derry. Crozier is tactically incompetent and he cant read the game at all. The correct team was stumbled across by accident. Murmurings from players would seem that none of them respect him or think he's up to the job at all. Derry need to change managers as they do have the players to win an AI in the next 3 years if a really good manager was brought in.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on August 24, 2007, 07:03:10 PM
I can offer up an opinion on who gets the county managers job, as they should NOT be some novice intercounty manager, Derry needs a man with intercounty managerial experience.
eg Cassidy has not covered himself in glory with cavan , and until he proves himself in the intercounty managerial stakes, he is obv unproven and not what we need right now with such a panel of great talent (glad to see you have at last realised this BTQ)
I thinnk the Derry situated is unique in that the Club culture is VERY strong .... therfore as I have said many times before we need a Derry man from a big club who understands the problem. Cassidy with his previous experience with Derry and his knowledge and success with an 'unusually average talented' Bellaghy makes him the best option for us. His proffesional panel preparation is (according to players who worked with him) is outstanding. Now he may not be a 'gentleman' but more importantly he 'instills a winning ethos'. As far as Cavan is concerned he was not the actual manager and he had very few quality players ... what quality he had was too old or injured ...FACT. What did the much aclaimed Grimley achieve with them in a similar role this year? There is not a 'bank' of quality managers in Ireland with intercounty experence. So Lynchbhoy you and I are quite rightly not Crozier fans for the same reasons as Max.
I will reirerate 'the County Board' are the problem and I really thought S McCloy was much more ambitious for his county but it seem to be a 'done deal' amd it's a waste of time even discussing it !!!!!
Who else wants the job ? Would Paddy Bradley's father do it ? I hear he's a good manager and would have the full backing of his sons which Crozier didn't seem to have.
Baker Bradley derry manager haha!
Quote from: orangeman on August 25, 2007, 10:30:44 AM
Who else wants the job ? Would Paddy Bradley's father do it ? I hear he's a good manager and would have the full backing of his sons which Crozier didn't seem to have.
are ye having a laugh?
it took long enought to get rid of the paddy and eoin show! if baker was in charge we would only have 2 players in the panel. and maybe dear nephew codrad.
appointing baker would be far too divisive
Would Baker not have the universal backing of the panel - at least the sons would be there all the time and wouldn't huff cos they were taken off ( even though it sounds like they would not be taken off with him in charge ) - would this not be a good idea for the long term future ?