Alcohol - Minimum price per unit

[Insane Bolt]

Scotland has introduced minimum price per unit of alcohol. Good or bad? Personally I think it is well intentioned but will lead to "booze buses" heading to English border towns.

[BennyCake]

The price of alcohol is not the problem. It's the easy availability of it. If you want to reduce alcohol-related illnesses/deaths, then ban off licenses and drink in supermarkets.

[Insane Bolt]

The price of alcohol is not the problem. It's the easy availability of it. If you want to reduce alcohol-related illnesses/deaths, then ban off licenses and drink in supermarkets.

Price certainly is part of the problem, in Scotland one could buy 3 litres of cider for £2.99.....that will now cost over £11.00. Agree ready availability is big issue also, but prohibition didn't stop drinking either. The cost to the NHS has to be addressed, but no obvious answer. Charging at A&E may work but the vast majority of people drinking cheap cider are doing so because it's all they can afford.

[thewobbler]

Surely the cost to the NHS has to be balanced against the reduction in pension payments and late-stage nursing care costs that is accrued from heavy drinkers dying younger? Or is it taboo to discuss untimely deaths this way?

Personally I believe the Scottish government need a toe in the hole. We live in damp, miserable islands, and having feck all else to do is the single biggest contributing factor for our drinking culture. Governments intervening in nature's plan. No need.

[Eamonnca1]

Improved education about its effects, increasing prices, social stigma, reduced availability, and reduced public places in which you can smoke have all combined to reduce tobacco consumption to the point where I could see it going the way of snuff and becoming so rare as to not being a problem.

Drink is a bit different in that it's more revered in our culture. There's no smoking equivalent of the pub; apart from a very small number of cigar bars there's not really a space where people go specifically to smoke. Drinking's more sociable than smoking, so I'd say increased prices, better education and reduced availability would be the weapons of choice in reducing binge drinking. If there's going to be any social stigma it's going to have to be around drunkenness, but we're a long way off that.

[Eamonnca1]

Surely the cost to the NHS has to be balanced against the reduction in pension payments and late-stage nursing care costs that is accrued from heavy drinkers dying younger? Or is it taboo to discuss untimely deaths this way?

Personally I believe the Scottish government need a toe in the hole. We live in damp, miserable islands, and having feck all else to do is the single biggest contributing factor for our drinking culture. Governments intervening in nature's plan. No need.

1 - Dying of alcohol abuse takes a long time. Look how long it took George Best to drink himself to death. That means a lot of resources spent on treatment over a period of years. And to answer your question, yes, it is taboo to talk about premature deaths this way. We should be trying to increase life expectancy and I thought this was self-evident.

2 - Alcohol related illness costs the NHS a fortune, I've seen figures ranging from £3 billion to £3.5 billion per year. The Americans have adopted a system of "let the sick stay sick and die if they can't afford treatment" in the belief that it's cheaper, but it turns out to be more expensive.

3 - Alcohol is a depressant. There's plenty to do besides drink. By law every local authority in the UK has to provide leisure facilities, so go to your local leisure centre and have a workout or learn a martial art. Go out for a run. Ride a bike. Take up swimming. Read a book. Take up painting. Get some artists gathered up and paint a nice mural on some boring wall that's been blank forever and overlooks some car park. Coach some underage sports team. Make yourself useful. The idea that "there's nothing to do but drink" is the attitude of the lazy and unimaginative.

Christ.

[Syferus]

Honestly as someone who doesn't tend to drink myself into oblivion the early closing times of most pubs are a pain. I'd prefer to spend the night in a pub most nights out but if you want to drink outside of your home past midnight in most places you have to go to a niteclub. Other countries are much better in regards to opening hours. There is a nanny state element to all this, though mostly the intention is protect those who are incapable or unwillling to protect themselves. But those that don't need that protection have to take a hit too.

Raising the price of alcohol is an utterly pointless excercise and will do nothing to fix any perceived problems, but saying there's nothing to do besides drinking sounds like a sketch from a bad comedy show than something someone would say seriously.

[Insane Bolt]

I don't feel there is any stigma around drunkenness....it's nearly the opposite. Back in the day someone drunk in public would have been talked about, now if you drink socially you are probably more inclined to be talked about. Agree that weather can drive you to drink sometimes.

[BennyCake]

3 - Alcohol is a depressant. There's plenty to do besides drink. By law every local authority in the UK has to provide leisure facilities, so go to your local leisure centre and have a workout or learn a martial art. Go out for a run. Ride a bike. Take up swimming. Read a book. Take up painting. Get some artists gathered up and paint a nice mural on some boring wall that's been blank forever and overlooks some car park. Coach some underage sports team. Make yourself useful. The idea that "there's nothing to do but drink" is the attitude of the lazy and unimaginative.

Christ.

Yeah I agree. Another line I hear is "oh I don't know know how I'd unwind if I couldn't have a drink". If drink wasn't available, you'd find another way to cope. Walk, gym, paint, garden, etc. Use your brain and do something worthwhile.

The relationship in Ireland re:drink is unhealthy too. Recall older gneration talk about dance halls, few drank, those who did were outcasts. Once dances went to hotels with a bar, it became easily available, suddenly most people drank. Now you're an outcast if you don't drink. That probably happened within a generation.

There is very little social places to meet for non-drinkers either. Seen many a non-drinker being abused as the designated driver on nights out trying to round up a squad of paralytic yahoos. So it's probably a case of put up with being used and abused just to have a night out, start drinking themselves, or stay at home.

[whitey]

I think there should be some happy medium between the old days (when alcohol from an off license cost the same as going into a pub) and today (when you can get hammered for €5-€10)

Lots of places in the States only serve wine and beer..... that could be one option to help reduce intake

Maybe put the minimum pricing on hard liquor and those pre mixed vodka drinks but leave beer and wine alone

Ban the sale of hard liquor after midnight-I saw a fella in a late night bar order 3 double vodkas and Red Bull just as the bar was closing....complete madness

In the States soft drinks are essentially free....they'll charge you for the first one but that's usually it. There's no financial in incentive  to haveing a couple of sparkling waters mixed in during the night in Ireland

[The Iceman]

I enjoy beer or a drop of whiskey like most but on rare occasions these days. Had a cousin died at 35 from alcoholism 6 years ago now and it upsets me still today.
There is a stigma about drink and alcoholics in ireland - leave them alone they're not harming anyone when they're harming themselves and all those around them. I still regret not intervening and at least trying to help. In my stupidity and awkwardness I would have bought him a beer or took a drink with him when I knew it was just more fuel to the fire.
I was t-total for 4 years from my final year of uni through the masters and another of couple of years after. I was in great shape and could manage nights out with the rest of the lads no bother. I did get tortured some nights driving ones home but all par for the course.
I think theres great intentions behind the new regulations in scotland - I would nearly say they're worse than ireland right now with alcoholism?
all very sad

[BennyCake]

Iceman, that reminds me of something I see often. People asked who they'd like to go for a drink with; George Best was a regular answer. He was an alcoholic! You'd hardly have been helping his cause buying him another flippin drink!

[Insane Bolt]

I have worked in bar game all my life, family owned bars in the past when it was 'a bottle and a half un '....my Granny would have said someone was 'tight' when they had a few too many. Worked in London where in Irish area (Cricklewood) lots of men drank 7 days a week, and hit it hard at weekend.
I hate the vodka/red bull culture.....have often refused to serve more than 2 to any one person.....and yes get the 10 vodka/red bull call at last orders.....just laugh at them and serve them 2 on a take it or leave it basis. In my home town you can get a drink at 8 in the morning, and then there is the 'Monday club'. I can remember when there was an unwritten rule in pubs where you couldn't serve any more than 2 green chatruse.......maybe we need something along those lines....but it would be near impossible to police. Education is the way forward but I don't think the government are serious about addressing this.

[Eamonnca1]

One good thing about the states is the coffee culture. Caffeine might not be the healthiest thing to ingest but it's a lot easier to deal with than alcohol. Coffee shops here provide a good place to mingle without feeling pressured to buy an alcoholic drink.

Did I ever tell you about the time I was at a GAA meeting one time in Boston? I was having lunch at the bar in Canton and I got a glass of wine to go with it. The lads showed up and asked me what it was. I told them and before I knew it there was another one sitting there. I told them I didn't want it, one was enough for me, and everybody (including the barman) laughed like I was joking. When they saw I was serious and didn't touch the second glass they asked me what I drink besides wine. I told them G&T, but don't be buying me any. They tried to order one and I had to intervene and tell the barman not to pour it.

There's times when I've been at an Irish function and they'll ask me what I want to drink. If I've already had a drink I'll say "soda water." They say "Och I'm not asking for soda water! What do you want?!" I had to force the issue and demand they respect my wishes.

The peer pressure to drink can be fierce.

[macdanger2]

Restricting advertising of alcohol esp around sporting events would be more effective I think