The ulster rugby trial

[Syferus]

Syferus  , I  know you are from Roscommon  as am I . What do you work at ? Are you in the legal field ? How can you be so sure ? You seem to court a lot of controversy on both on here and the Ros site   I would not want you on my jury    I do agree that the Victim sounds very sincere but it  is very difficult to know what exactly  happened , I believe that if Stuart Olding and Blane McIlroy  had not entered the room that she would have regretted what happened but would never have brought this case. Personally at the start of the case I did think that they would be found guilty, Of late I would more lean towards  not guilty with not enough clear evidence of what exactly happened  .

There is nothing controversial believing a rape victim. This thread is a sad anachronism of ten to twenty years ago where regressive attitudes towards rape were still acceptable. It's also true that because those trying to shout down the rape victim are the loudest, it does not mean mean they are in the majority. I'm not bothered one bit by how uncomfortable some home truths are making some here because I know my conscience is very clear.

Open your ears outside your echo chamber and you might see that that the world has changed, particularly with how acceptable sexual assault and casual rape are.

[Orior]

Syferus  , I  know you are from Roscommon  as am I . What do you work at ? Are you in the legal field ? How can you be so sure ? You seem to court a lot of controversy on both on here and the Ros site   I would not want you on my jury    I do agree that the Victim sounds very sincere but it  is very difficult to know what exactly  happened , I believe that if Stuart Olding and Blane McIlroy  had not entered the room that she would have regretted what happened but would never have brought this case. Personally at the start of the case I did think that they would be found guilty, Of late I would more lean towards  not guilty with not enough clear evidence of what exactly happened  .

There is nothing controversial believing a rape victim. This thread is a sad anachronism of ten to twenty years ago where regressive attitudes towards rape were still acceptable. It's also true that because those trying to shout down the rape victim are the loudest, it does not mean mean they are in the majority. I'm not bothered one bit by how uncomfortable some home truths are making some here because I know my conscience is very clear.

Open your ears outside your echo chamber and you might see that that the world has changed, particularly with how acceptable sexual assault and casual rape are.

There are lots of cases where women consented then changed their mind afterwards.

[Tubberman]

Syferus  , I  know you are from Roscommon  as am I . What do you work at ? Are you in the legal field ? How can you be so sure ? You seem to court a lot of controversy on both on here and the Ros site   I would not want you on my jury    I do agree that the Victim sounds very sincere but it  is very difficult to know what exactly  happened , I believe that if Stuart Olding and Blane McIlroy  had not entered the room that she would have regretted what happened but would never have brought this case. Personally at the start of the case I did think that they would be found guilty, Of late I would more lean towards  not guilty with not enough clear evidence of what exactly happened  .

There is nothing controversial believing a rape victim. This thread is a sad anachronism of ten to twenty years ago where regressive attitudes towards rape were still acceptable. It's also true that because those trying to shout down the rape victim are the loudest, it does not mean mean they are in the majority. I'm not bothered one bit by how uncomfortable some home truths are making some here because I know my conscience is very clear.

Open your ears outside your echo chamber and you might see that that the world has changed, particularly with how acceptable sexual assault and casual rape are.

Hot air - you don't deal with evidence of the case at ant point. You rage about bias and prejudice etc, but are blind to your own.

[bennydorano]

Too many people on this thread emotionally invested in this case and it's just embarrassing, it would appear point scoring / being 'right' is more important than the outcome of the case and wellbeing of those concerned. It's a  Lose / lose situation for all involved, the verdict while obviously hugely important will matter little to those who've dug their trenches here.

[Asal Mor]

It's the internet Benny, point scoring and being right is always most important. I'm also curious to see if Syferus' head bursts open with indignation if the Belfast four are cleared. If they are found guilty I'd anticipate the most gloating, pontificating, self-congratulatory epic of a post the internet has ever seen. Either way it will be hilarious, though obviously the welfare of those involved is foremost in my mind.

[Milltown Row2]

It's the internet Benny, point scoring and being right is always most important. I'm also curious to see if Syferus' head bursts open with indignation if the Belfast four are cleared. If they are found guilty I'd anticipate the most gloating, pontificating, self-congratulatory epic of a post the internet has ever seen. Either way it will be hilarious, though obviously the welfare of those involved is foremost in my mind.

Nope, let Syferus and his one mate tell you what you're actually thinking with regards to this case!

[fearbrags]

""Open your ears outside your echo chamber and you might see that that the world has changed, particularly with how acceptable sexual assault and casual rape are."" 
My ears are open,and I would guess I am older then you and have lived through a lot of change. But while agreeing with you that  sexual assault and rape are totally unacceptable, That doesn't mean that everyone accused of rape is guilty ! It is not as if Paddy Jackson attacked her and dragged her into the bushes and raped her , It would seem she willingly went to his house and then his bed room (not once but twice)  It didnt seem that she felt threatened up to going to his bedroom the 2nd time.  What exactly happened then is very unclear (or from what I have read it seem that way to me).We all know ""no"" is ""no"".  It would be great if everyone didnt have sex till they got married etc (maybe you are one of those)' But some times a guy when he gets a "no" first , he just does more "bs" and the ""no"" becomes a yes (I am not saying I am approving of this) . In my opinion it comes down to who you believe? ( it seems they all were intoxicated and  it is hard to say)
""Generally, prosecutors bear the burden of proof and are required to prove their version of events to this standard. This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no "reasonable doubt" in the mind of a "reasonable person" that the defendant is guilty.""  A lot has change but this has not ! 

[David McKeown]

Syferus will of course issue a full unconditional apology if they are found not guilty.

If these lads aren't convicted it will not be from lack of evidence that they did something horrible.

if it was consensual is no big dael

Exactly. If they're not convicted it will.be because it was consensual.  A threesome mightnt be to your tastes but it's certainly not horrible on their behalves.

That's not right. They may be acquitted on the basis the jury were not convinced that the defendants knew (or more technically did not reasonably believe) that the girl wasn't consenting. If a not guilty verdict is returned we will never know which of the three criteria the jury felt wasn't proven so it must certainly doesn't follow that an acquittal means whatever happened was consensual

Contrary to what Syferus says sex and a lack of consent does not legally make it rape. Should it?  That's an argument for a different day.

[Orior]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?

[Milltown Row2]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?
[/quote

Was it not two years ago and she was 19? Jackson 24? Could be wrong

[Avondhu star]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?

Do the women in work actually speak to you?

[longballin]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?

two consenting adults - whats the problem?

[Milltown Row2]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?

two consenting adults - whats the problem?

Well let the jury decide they were consenting!

[longballin]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?

two consenting adults - whats the problem?

Well let the jury decide they were consenting!

I mean in general, what's the problem with a 26 year old getting with an 18 year old? If not consensual of course its wrong. That seems to be what you're friend is saying or maybe I'm misinterpreting that.

[StGallsGAA]

A female friend of mine in work thinks that the age gap is a concern. The complainant is 18 and Jackson is 26?

So by that reckoning if instead PJ was 18 and she 26 he'd be innocent?