Widening the back door

[dec]

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=95&si=1776127&issue_id=15250

Pressure mounts to widen the back door
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PRESSURE is mounting to change the All-Ireland football championship format so that provincial champions get a second chance if they lose at the quarter-final stage.

Ulster Council secretary Danny Murphy wants provincial champions treated the same as teams who lose earlier on by granting them a reprieve if they lose a quarter-final. He is supported by Armagh manager Joe Kernan, who claimed the current system is loaded against provincial winners.

Murphy has proposed a new format whereby the four provincial winners play off against each other with the two winners advancing directly to the All-Ireland semi-finals, while the losers get a second chance against two survivors from the qualifiers.

Under the current system, provincial winners face four qualifiers in the All-Ireland quarter-finals. It means that where provincial winners lose quarter-finals they are eliminated from the All-Ireland race, without getting a second chance.

Writing in his annual report, which will go before the Ulster Convention on Saturday week, Murphy said that they had engaged in preliminary discussions on a new proposal that may go before Congress in April. That involves giving beaten provincial winners a second chance.

"Provincial champions should have the opportunity of a clear route to the All-Ireland semi-finals and this can be best achieved by having the provincial champions play each other, with the winners advancing to the semi-finals.

The defeated provincial champions would get a second chance against two teams emerging from the qualifier series. I believe that this will ensure a more appropriate and consistently competitive championship," writes Murphy.

Qualify

His remarks come at a time when it's being mooted that hurling plans to return to a system whereby the Leinster and Munster champions qualify for the All-Ireland semi-finals.

However, there will be opposition at official level to any proposal to change the football system if it involves extra fixtures.

Paraic Duffy, the new Players' Welfare Officer, who previously chaired committees that proposed the introduction of the 'back door' in 2001 and its slightly amended version which comes into effect this year, said that any change involving more fixtures would be detrimental to clubs.

"If you create a mechanism to allow provincial winners who lose their next game back into the All-Ireland race, it will take at least one extra weekend.

"That would have a negative impact on the club scene which is already an area of serious concern. My own personal view is that we should be very reluctant to add an extra round," he said.

Duffy concedes that it's frustrating for provincial winners who lose All-Ireland quarter-finals to find themselves totally eliminated whereas their conquerors, who lost a game earlier on, head into the semi-finals.

"When we designed the 'back door' system back in 2001, it was on the basis that there were two ways of qualifying for the All-Ireland quarter-finals. Provincial winners qualified automatically and were joined by the four remaining qualifiers.

"In effect, we treated the provincial and All-Ireland championships as two separate competitions. We also proposed that the provincial winners would have home advantage in the quarter-finals but that never happened. Central Council didn't think it was practical in terms of ground capacity and it also emerged that counties wanted quarter-finals in Croke Park if possible," he said.

Joe Kernan, whose Armagh side lost All-Ireland quarter-finals in 2004 and 2006 after winning the Ulster title, said that it wasn't fair that some teams got second chances whereas others didn't.

The records show that of the 24 provincial champions crowned since 2001, ten have been beaten in the All-Ireland quarter-finals.

"A team that does everything right and wins the provincial title have the safety net pulled from under them, whereas a team that loses in the provinces are welcomed back in through the qualifiers. We benefited from that in Armagh in 2003 and went on to beat Leinster champions Laois in the quarter-finals, so we have experience of both sides.

Sharper

"Look at what happened us last year. We won the Ulster title on July 9 but didn't play Kerry in the All-Ireland quarter-final until August 5. Kerry had two games in that period which left them that bit sharper than us," he said.

Had Danny Murphy's proposed system been in operation last year, Armagh, Mayo, Dublin and Cork would have played off with the two winners entering the semi-finals and the two losers heading for quarter-finals.

Up to now, four qualifiers reach the quarter-finals but under the new system it would be reduced to two. In 2006 that would have meant a further qualifying round involving Westmeath, Kerry, Laois and Donegal.

They would have played off down to two for the right to beat the losers from the provincial champions play-offs.

"A change in the system might mean one extra weekend but surely it should be possible to find it," added Kernan. "In the interests of fairness, it should be tried because there's a blatant anomaly in the current system."

Martin Breheny

I don't think this is a good idea. It adds an extra round and you still have the situation of a zero loss team versus a one loss team this time in the semi finals.

Here is a list of the provincial champions that have lost to a backdoor team in the quarter finals. There are only two cases where a clear underdog won Donegal 03 and Fermanagh 04. In the other cases the winning teams were at least the equal of the provincial champions that they beat.
2001
Roscommon (beaten by Galway)
Tyrone (beaten by Derry)

2002
Galway (beaten by Kerry)

2003
Galway (beaten by Donegal)
Laois (beaten by Armagh)

2004
Westmeath (beaten by Derry)
Armagh (beaten by Fermanagh).

2005
Galway (beaten by Cork)
Dublin (beaten by Tyrone)

2006
Armagh (beaten by Kerry).

[Mike Sheehy]

"Look at what happened us last year. We won the Ulster title on July 9 but didn't play Kerry in the All-Ireland quarter-final until August 5. Kerry had two games in that period which left them that bit sharper than us," he said.

us how

..hang on..wouldn't the "tough, competitive" Ulster championship not make up for this layoff ? ...Sure, we've never lost a 1/4 final and we have gone into each of those games without, apparently, having had a competitive game in Munster.

How the hell do we do it Danny ?

[Silky]

What about the provincial champions who win a Quater final and get beaten in the semi final? They should get a second chance as well! Or even worse; what if the Ulster champions lose in the All Ireland Final! Where's their second chance? It's all so unfair on Armagh.
I think they should just keep on playing the football championship until everybody gets bored and Armagh are declared the winners.

[muppet]

 This is nonsense. The only reason for it that I can see is that it is a painfully slow march towards a round robin provincial or conference Championship that has been proposed in the past. If that is the case they should just go ahead and try it, not introduce it in dribs and drabs.

[Hardy]

This is more discrimination. What about the beaten All-Ireland finalists? Why shouldn't they get a second chance? I think we should eliminate this divisive competitive approach and give everyone All-Ireland medals.

Everybody's special.

[Bogball XV]

well we now know why the bottom 8 aren't getting a 2nd chance, ah, yes, let the rich get richer and may the poor get the 'Boy Wonder' cup!!

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Jezuz, with all these backdoor matches they'll be lucky to get the AI final played by Christmas, maybe Croke park is needed by the Irish hockey team or the Irish polo team in September!!!! 

[Kerry Mike]

Provincial champions should have the opportunity of a clear route to the All-Ireland semi-finals

They do, its all about winning one game called a quarter final...  

This is a load of shite, why are we always trying to reinvent the system. There has been enough tinkering with it this year with the leagues being tied in to it from next year on.

[tayto]

Agreed, everyone can't have a second chance or we mayaswell play the provinces as a league. Stop tinkering witht he format for a couple of years. Although i do hink the new league is better then the 1 a+b, in a couple of years division 1 will be very strong. 

[Onlooker]

I agree with Tayto that the new League system will be a major improvement with a top class Division 1 on the way, but it is not right that the weakest 8 counties are prevented from playing in the qualifiers and will be the only counties not given a second chance when they lose a provincial championship match.

[Over the Bar]

It's always been my view that if we are to have a back door, the temas coming thru the qualifers should play-off until there are only 2 remaining and then play the losers of a semi made up solely of the provincial winners.   Therfore the losing teams have to "jump through more hoops" to acually reach an AIF.

[tayto]

Problem with that over the bar, is more games for some teams and some teams sitting around waiting which is a waste of time and makes organising club seasons in advance impossible becuse you've no idea how many games a county'll have over the summer.   

[lynchbhoy]

think the system is fine the way it is

if you dont like knockout, then a league basis is the only alternative and I think this would water down the importance of games

fine the way we are

[tayto]

Agree lynchboy, you water down the knockout element of the championship any more and it's going to have to be a league system, once the do or die excitment is taken out of it then a prolonged league, "oh great we got two points", is the only other system that works by prolonging the excitment over the course of more matches.

The current system is almost falling between the two stools, as it stands it's a more complicated system then any other sport i can think.