Irish Language Act. Is the only thing stopping Stormont sitting

[Rossfan]

Excellent post Seany.
Trying to pretend that 45%+ of the population doesn't exist won't  exactly help anything.

[seafoid]

It is messy because it is about acknowledging that it is no longer a British/Protestant state for an exclusively  British/Protestant people. Unionism is oppositional.  It is the anti Irish. It is intractably so. And puerile.

The benches in Stormont were ordered to be the same as the House of Commons. The benches in the House of Commons have green backs . This was not acceptable in Stormont. So the backs are blue.

Gregory Campbell saying "Curry my yogurt can coca cola yer" in Stormont is not the sign of a confident community either.
Unionism has to make peace with what is defines itself that it is not. And it doesn't want to.
This is basically what the war was about.

Unionism needs a de Gaulle or a De Klerk or LBJ to lead the people to the land of reason.
And there is nobody.

[seafoid]

I also think the cultural confidence of nationalists is very uncomfortable for Unionists.  Unionism was built on the assumption that Taigs were backward and ignorant. You can't disenfranchise people who will fight for their rights.

Sleacht Néill won the camogie all Ireland last year. The club is part of a community that is dedicated to the promotion of Irish language and culture. Sporting excellence is a by-product. 

[vallankumous]

Unionism is beyond saving. It has become an example of unifying Race, State, Religion and National Identity as one and the same. A victim of it's past success. It is a falsehood that can't survive without other factors not present in Unionism. As this becomes even more of a reality Unionism is in protection mode rather than celebration mode.

Other factors required for a large identity to survive are Language, Culture (music, dance etc), shared history, shared faith, geographic recognition (an identifiable and recognized border) and unity or a working relationship in leadership and often a common enemy.

This is not dissimilar to the break down in US society which has brought them to the stage of Trump. It's a false immigrant majority national identity with no shared values (if any of the above are of value).

[magpie seanie]

I've always thought if the unionists can't find it in themselves to agree to an ILA it just shows they do not see nationalist or Irish culture as equal or of any value. Which a lot of us suspected was their inbuilt feeling anyway which they try (poorly) to hide. Some good posts here, Seany, seafood, vallk

[Denn Forever]

People have suggested if a few Unionist just listened to a session, they'd see how close we are.

Just listen to this.  Put Ulster Scots music into you tube and came up with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTr7pmDS9_4

[Eamonnca1]

First point. The ILA act is not about the Irish language. It's essentially about forcing the unionists to actually accept that there is another community in NI who do not subscribe to GB values and who now make up about 50% of the population. Remember when they ruled NI themselves, there wasn't one RC employed in the civil service in Derry and they even managed to redraw boundaries to ensure they had a majority. Catholics didn't have the vote and peaceful attempts to change this with the civil rights saw them being battered off the streets and eventually Bloody Sunday. In forty years of Stormont Rule, a nationalist Mp only once got a bill passed (The Wild Birds Bill 1939). One bill in 40 years. Everywhere you look, there are sinister symbols of Britishness; Carson statue, the Holy Land streets, named after British colonies which they took with much bloodshed, Ireton St, named after Cromwell's son in law who created a famine in 1651 when he besieged Limerick. If youy think that's all old crusty history, just look at a decision made TODAY! Around the NI soccer team who have applied to wear poppies on their jerseys in their play off match. A total ingoring of the fact that 50% of the population and rising were the greatest victims of the very imperialism it seeks to triumph. SF did their best to plough on, keeping the thing going Martin McGuinness particularly, but the DUP couldn't help themselves. They protested violently side by side with loyalist murderers when a democratic vote was taken to take the union jack down from the City Hall on all but designated days, in line with UK. That flag shouldn't be up anywhere unless the tricolour is beside it, if there was true recognition of the Irish identity, but these people actually think it should be flying over a city that hasn't even a unionist majority any more. They changed the name of the NI boat from Banríon Uladh, to the Queen of Ulster, a proactive act of sectarion bigotry, they got rid of the Líofa grants to gaeltacht students etc etc etc.

It is not necessarily SF who is pushing this, but their voters who have told them on every single consultation to hold firm. The last consultation took place last Monday night among non activist nationalist business people. It took place in Belfast (Malone Lodge Hotel). They were told by that highly educated, well connected group of what would pass for SDLP voters not to move one muscle towards the executive until the ILA and other demands are met.

Interesting.

I've come to think that bigotry is something we're going to have to live with in the current generation of unionist politicians and we'll just have to ride out the storm until a newer generation of moderates, the Trevor Ringland-types, become the normal face of unionism. Am I being too pessimistic? Is there value in trying to force the issue and force unionists to accept equality? Is it even possible to force them? Or will they always tend towards the extreme?

[AQMP]

Interesting.

I've come to think that bigotry is something we're going to have to live with in the current generation of unionist politicians and we'll just have to ride out the storm until a newer generation of moderates, the Trevor Ringland-types, become the normal face of unionism. Am I being too pessimistic? Is there value in trying to force the issue and force unionists to accept equality? Is it even possible to force them? Or will they always tend towards the extreme?

Trevor Ringland was a great rugby player and he seems like a decent sort, but he's one of those in cloud cuckoo land waiting for the "why can't we all just get along" constituency to rise up and occupy what is termed "the middle ground".  There is no middle ground or if there is it's occupied by SF and the DUP.

[Eamonnca1]

Is it possible that the moderates all get fed up and leave the place, leaving the hardliners in the majority? Are the most talented potential leaders living elsewhere in the world and working in the private sector?

[seafoid]

Israelis and Unionists share a promised land ideology and a military fetish plus a big brain drain leaving behind a less talented  rump.

[Eamonnca1]

I hear our ones are more inclined to stick around, unionist youngsters are more inclined to move to England. Anybody ever hear that?

[red hander]

Interesting.

I've come to think that bigotry is something we're going to have to live with in the current generation of unionist politicians and we'll just have to ride out the storm until a newer generation of moderates, the Trevor Ringland-types, become the normal face of unionism. Am I being too pessimistic? Is there value in trying to force the issue and force unionists to accept equality? Is it even possible to force them? Or will they always tend towards the extreme?

Trevor Ringland was a great rugby player and he seems like a decent sort, but he's one of those in cloud cuckoo land waiting for the "why can't we all just get along" constituency to rise up and occupy what is termed "the middle ground".  There is no middle ground or if there is it's occupied by SF and the DUP.

The guy's naive in the extreme because he totally ignores the core issue. The British never had any right to be in Ireland, full stop. Everything flows from that

[Rossfan]

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

[armaghniac]

I hear our ones are more inclined to stick around, unionist youngsters are more inclined to move to England. Anybody ever hear that?

Nationalists are more inclined to stay in touch even if they away for a while and maybe move back at some stage.

Are we to turn the clock back to 1169 and start again??

No putting the clock back, just stop the invasion.

[BennyCake]

It is messy because it is about acknowledging that it is no longer a British/Protestant state for an exclusively  British/Protestant people. Unionism is oppositional.  It is the anti Irish. It is intractably so. And puerile.

The benches in Stormont were ordered to be the same as the House of Commons. The benches in the House of Commons have green backs . This was not acceptable in Stormont. So the backs are blue.

Gregory Campbell saying "Curry my yogurt can coca cola yer" in Stormont is not the sign of a confident community either.
Unionism has to make peace with what is defines itself that it is not. And it doesn't want to.
This is basically what the war was about.

Unionism needs a de Gaulle or a De Klerk or LBJ to lead the people to the land of reason.
And there is nobody.

Anyone who tries to do a deal with the other side is fecked. Trimble, and even Paisley were chucked out. It's pointless even trying. What unionists need is a border poll in Britain, with an overwhelming vote to get rid of the North. That's what they need to hear - that their so called fellow Brits don't want anything to do with them or this place.