It Must be Marching Season

[lynchbhoy]

Of course there is an extreme ideology that would espouse that there are no Nationalist areas whatsoever in the 6 counties.

I know you said it in jest- but thats not extreme at all.
this was (still is but these days not PC so has to remain hidden) the thinking of all loyalist/unionists in the 6 counties.
the nationalist/catholic areas just didnt count.
therefore the oo and loyalist/unionists were at liberty to march anywhere they wanted- though it usually coincided with mostly being through or beside big nationalist areas/streets etc.

this triumphalism was to show who was boss and rub our noses in it.
the same attitude remains today, not one of reconciliation or equality - but the old antagonistic provocative retaliation and trouble seeking one.
Those days the ruc and cohorts would assist in violent attacks against the nationalists (and this just got worse as their bullying escalated into persecution, oppression and violent suppression/killings).
Then people wondered why there was retaliation and why the IRA got volunteers!

[Nally Stand]

Evil Genius and Myles NaGabshite have also been abnormally quiet recently. 

Luckily, after having nothing to say about loyalist riots until prompted to do so, Myles has appeared in his own whataboutery style in order to almost immediately change the subject to a nationalist parade through a mainly nationalist town in a few weeks. Oddly, he has never come on this board to complain about the countless loyalist parades which go through that same majority nationalist town every single year though.

So it's okay to have a provocative parade if you have a majority in the area? What is the percentage breakdown at which point it becomes okay? Castlederg is about 60:40, is that your bottom line figure?

You changed the subject to Castlederg's nationalist parade in a majority nationalist town, not me. You seemed to gloss over your lack of comment on the many loyalist parades which march through that same majority nationalist town countless times a year, and the violent sectarian attacks on Catholic people and Catholic owned property which regularly accompanies those particular events. Just like you'd have happily avoided commenting on loyalist rioting in Belfast here until you were called out on it (even though you did almost immediately attempt to change the subject and start a fairly poor whataboutery argument to do so).

I've already said I'm against contentious parades, wherever they take place and whomsoever they involve. You - and Gerry Kelly - seem to be against contentious parades when they involve loyalists, but all in favour if they're republican. Feel free to clarify if I've got that wrong. And since you seem to want me to speak out against the blatantly bleedin' obvious each and every time, can I put on record that I'm totally against world hunger, high rates of infant mortality in developing countries, and dog fouling in public areas. That's not an exhaustive list, BTW. I'll add to it as we go along.

I find it blatantly obvious that you would be opposed to a single republican parade in Castlederg, but you still EAGERLY brought that up (in order to change the subject when asked about the loyalist riots in Belfast), so no need to get tetchy when it's pointed out that you had never seemed too perturbed by the countless loyalist parades through that mainly Catholic town, saying as they have never warranted a single mention from you.

[Myles Na G.]

Evil Genius and Myles NaGabshite have also been abnormally quiet recently. 

Luckily, after having nothing to say about loyalist riots until prompted to do so, Myles has appeared in his own whataboutery style in order to almost immediately change the subject to a nationalist parade through a mainly nationalist town in a few weeks. Oddly, he has never come on this board to complain about the countless loyalist parades which go through that same majority nationalist town every single year though.

So it's okay to have a provocative parade if you have a majority in the area? What is the percentage breakdown at which point it becomes okay? Castlederg is about 60:40, is that your bottom line figure?

You changed the subject to Castlederg's nationalist parade in a majority nationalist town, not me. You seemed to gloss over your lack of comment on the many loyalist parades which march through that same majority nationalist town countless times a year, and the violent sectarian attacks on Catholic people and Catholic owned property which regularly accompanies those particular events. Just like you'd have happily avoided commenting on loyalist rioting in Belfast here until you were called out on it (even though you did almost immediately attempt to change the subject and start a fairly poor whataboutery argument to do so).

I've already said I'm against contentious parades, wherever they take place and whomsoever they involve. You - and Gerry Kelly - seem to be against contentious parades when they involve loyalists, but all in favour if they're republican. Feel free to clarify if I've got that wrong. And since you seem to want me to speak out against the blatantly bleedin' obvious each and every time, can I put on record that I'm totally against world hunger, high rates of infant mortality in developing countries, and dog fouling in public areas. That's not an exhaustive list, BTW. I'll add to it as we go along.

I find it blatantly obvious that you would be opposed to a single republican parade in Castlederg, but you still EAGERLY brought that up (in order to change the subject when asked about the loyalist riots in Belfast), so no need to get tetchy when it's pointed out that you had never seemed too perturbed by the countless loyalist parades through that mainly Catholic town, saying as they have never warranted a single mention from you.

I'm opposed to contentious, coat-trailing parades whether they are republican or loyalist. You've clarified your stance, which is that you're opposed to offensive  loyalist marches, but apply a different set of standards when it's republicans out banging the drum. Pathetic, if predictable.

I'm also opposed to domestic violence, child porn and animal cruelty. I haven't mentioned that before, so I wouldn't want you leaping to conclusions.

[Eamonnca1]

If a republican parade is going through a republican area then it's hardly "contentious" now, is it?

I say again that the practice of forcing parades through areas where they're not welcome is an exclusively loyalist trait. Your attempts to play the "both sides as bad as each other" card here is pathetic.

[All of a Sludden]

And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question.

[red hander]

Evil Genius and Myles NaGabshite have also been abnormally quiet recently. 

Luckily, after having nothing to say about loyalist riots until prompted to do so, Myles has appeared in his own whataboutery style in order to almost immediately change the subject to a nationalist parade through a mainly nationalist town in a few weeks. Oddly, he has never come on this board to complain about the countless loyalist parades which go through that same majority nationalist town every single year though.

So it's okay to have a provocative parade if you have a majority in the area? What is the percentage breakdown at which point it becomes okay? Castlederg is about 60:40, is that your bottom line figure?

You changed the subject to Castlederg's nationalist parade in a majority nationalist town, not me. You seemed to gloss over your lack of comment on the many loyalist parades which march through that same majority nationalist town countless times a year, and the violent sectarian attacks on Catholic people and Catholic owned property which regularly accompanies those particular events. Just like you'd have happily avoided commenting on loyalist rioting in Belfast here until you were called out on it (even though you did almost immediately attempt to change the subject and start a fairly poor whataboutery argument to do so).

I've already said I'm against contentious parades, wherever they take place and whomsoever they involve. You - and Gerry Kelly - seem to be against contentious parades when they involve loyalists, but all in favour if they're republican. Feel free to clarify if I've got that wrong. And since you seem to want me to speak out against the blatantly bleedin' obvious each and every time, can I put on record that I'm totally against world hunger, high rates of infant mortality in developing countries, and dog fouling in public areas. That's not an exhaustive list, BTW. I'll add to it as we go along.

I find it blatantly obvious that you would be opposed to a single republican parade in Castlederg, but you still EAGERLY brought that up (in order to change the subject when asked about the loyalist riots in Belfast), so no need to get tetchy when it's pointed out that you had never seemed too perturbed by the countless loyalist parades through that mainly Catholic town, saying as they have never warranted a single mention from you.

I'm opposed to contentious, coat-trailing parades whether they are republican or loyalist. You've clarified your stance, which is that you're opposed to offensive  loyalist marches, but apply a different set of standards when it's republicans out banging the drum. Pathetic, if predictable.

I'm also opposed to domestic violence, child porn and animal cruelty. I haven't mentioned that before, so I wouldn't want you leaping to conclusions.

You must be only a couple of miles from Australia by now ... hope your spade's holding up better than your argument

[Myles Na G.]

If a republican parade is going through a republican area then it's hardly "contentious" now, is it?

I say again that the practice of forcing parades through areas where they're not welcome is an exclusively loyalist trait. Your attempts to play the "both sides as bad as each other" card here is pathetic.

My understanding is that the parade is to go through the town centre of Castlederg. Since when was this a republican area?
Not so long ago, republicans objected to and protested against the decision to allow a 'welcome home' rally to British Army soldiers in the centre of Belfast, on the grounds that it would be offensive to victims of state violence.
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/14074
Well to the fore in these protests was one Gerry Kelly. Could this be the same Gerry Kelly who's due to be chief speaker for the Castlederg event? What about the victims of IRA violence, Gerry?

[Eamonnca1]

This center-of-Castlederg residents' group must be kicking up an awful stink.

[Eamonnca1]

So let's recap.

"Nationalist area" - Standard definition: area with predominantly or exclusively nationalist residents living in it.

Myles' definition: area with predominantly or exclusively nationalist residents living in it excluding any major roads that might run through it.

"Contentious parade" - Standard definition: parade overwhelmingly opposed by the residents of the area it is to pass through.

Myles' definition: parade with anything remotely iffy about in Myles' mind if he happens to know where to look.

Any other words you'd like to redefine today? Wanna redefine a pistol as a weapon of mass destruction?

[Myles Na G.]

So let's recap.

"Nationalist area" - Standard definition: area with predominantly or exclusively nationalist residents living in it.

Myles' definition: area with predominantly or exclusively nationalist residents living in it excluding any major roads that might run through it.

"Contentious parade" - Standard definition: parade overwhelmingly opposed by the residents of the area it is to pass through.

Myles' definition: parade with anything remotely iffy about in Myles' mind if he happens to know where to look.

Any other words you'd like to redefine today? Wanna redefine a pistol as a weapon of mass destruction?

'Contentious' - Standard definition: of or likely to cause dispute or contention; controversial
http://ulsterherald.com/2013/07/18/unionists-express-anger-at-glorification-of-terrorism-in-castlederg/
http://www.u.tv/News/Objection-to-Castlederg-republican-event/6c37eb81-c2d8-49c0-8478-fe571530a171
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/unionist-fury-over-ira-tribute-rally-29431827.html

'Double standards' - Speaking after the event Gerry Kelly said,

"We have always made it clear that the singular focus of our protest was the British military parade, and highlighting the plight of those families bereaved as a result of collusion and state violence."
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/14074

Mr Buchanan said the planned parade, which is due to be considered by the Parades Commission, would pass a location where three members of the security forces were murdered by the IRA.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/unionist-fury-over-ira-tribute-rally-29431827.html

[lynchbhoy]

myles, not sure what point your above post is to signify, but I think most of us know what contentious is...

it was asked earlier in response to I believe that you think that all/most republican parades are contentious - can you name where some of these might be?

Certainly we know that a lot if not a hell of a lot of loyalist/unionist parades are cntentious passing by or through obvious nationalist areas/streets etc - but I'd never heard of republican (or AOH) parades doing likewise...

[Myles Na G.]

myles, not sure what point your above post is to signify, but I think most of us know what contentious is...

it was asked earlier in response to I believe that you think that all/most republican parades are contentious - can you name where some of these might be?

Certainly we know that a lot if not a hell of a lot of loyalist/unionist parades are cntentious passing by or through obvious nationalist areas/streets etc - but I'd never heard of republican (or AOH) parades doing likewise...

Eamonn obviously doesn't, which why I posted the above. A 'contentious' parade doesn't have to 'pass through' an area in order to annoy. The republican protest I highlighted above was about a British Army homecoming parade through Belfast city centre, which doesn't belong to either side. Sometimes a parade through a so called shared space can be offensive for precisely that reason. I agree that many of the loyal order parades are contentious / offensive. My point is that the likes of Gerry Kelly can't call the loyal orders to account on the one hand, yet at the same time support an equally contentious parade just because it happens to be a republican commemoration. That's double standards and poor leadership. The fact that there are fewer such republican parades doesn't alter that fact. Coat trailing parades are either wrong or they're not.

[lynchbhoy]

with respect,
imo at least - the contentiousness of parades is normally in relation to passing down a shared area or more often in or alongside a completely partisan area (cant think of any republican ones myself only unionist/loyalist ones).

the 'contentious' republican parade you are talking about is not of the same ilk. if I am correct in what you are saying, then it is because it passes by a spot where british soldiers were killed and not because it passes through/by unionist/loyalist area etc ?

people might object to that, but it is only because of what some might deem 'poor taste' rather than because it is through a loyalist/unionist area.
If all parades were to be banned for this, then there would be no parades at all on either side I would reckon.
no loss - many would say.

From your post, you only allude to one or two 'contentious' republican parades - are there any more you know of?
I dont- then again I only know of a couple of parades anyhow.

[deiseach]

There is no double standard in viewing the parade of themmuns as being offensive and our parade as being acceptable. It's politics, no different than viewing a certain tax as completely unacceptable when you are in opposition but necessary when you are in government. Where Gerry Kelly is hypocritical is when he applauds the Parades Commission for giving a decision he agrees with but pillories them when they give a decision he doesn't like. And he definitely shows a lack of leadership when he encourages a mob of Bucky-fuelled spides to turn out in 'peaceful protest' when a decision goes against his side. Oh hang on, he doesn't that.

[Applesisapples]

Take a look around the so called shared space in our towns,there are plenty of union flags and bunting, there are many parades through out the year which although an inconvenience to the majority they pass of peacefully. And rightly so, and through agreement. The Garvaghy road( which for Myles benefit has a Catholic Church and catholic/nationalist housing running the length of it on both sides), Ardoyne and a handful of other contentious areas is about making sure the catholics know their place. But it also about curbing the growth of the catholic population in what is seen as Protestant heartlands...plain and simple.