Are we more concerned with political correctness than crime?
There have been many reports in recent weeks and months of gangs of muslim men in towns throughout england systematically grooming and abusing children. The one reported yesterday on the BBC news website was particularly harrowing: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ)
This is an account from one of the survivors: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html)
And an article from Forbes.com on the widespread abuse in Rotherham: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a)
Here are some more wiki references of other abuse rings if you care to read them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keighley_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keighley_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal)
I would point to the survivors comments of the rhetoric at the time of the abuse, the men's attitude towards white people and their religious outlook.
At the risk of being called rascist or anti-muslim, the media and the public at large are not addressing the problem or the fundamentalist beliefs of the perpetrators which the survivors say is their motivation for the abuse.....
Quote from: The Iceman on October 30, 2018, 03:54:15 PM
Are we more concerned with political correctness than crime?
There have been many reports in recent weeks and months of gangs of muslim men in towns throughout england systematically grooming and abusing children. The one reported yesterday on the BBC news website was particularly harrowing: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ)
This is an account from one of the survivors: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html)
And an article from Forbes.com on the widespread abuse in Rotherham: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a)
Here are some more wiki references of other abuse rings if you care to read them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keighley_child_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keighley_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal)
I would point to the survivors comments of the rhetoric at the time of the abuse, the men's attitude At the risk of being called rascist or anti-muslim, the media and the public at large are not addressing the problem or the fundamentalist beliefs of the perpetrators which the survivors say is their motivation for the abuse.....
Really? I decided to check your statement in bold and, just starting at the top of this page, I found lots of reports from the media. Here are a few you can't have missed:
There have been many reports in recent weeks and months of gangs of muslim men in towns throughout england systematically grooming and abusing children. The one reported yesterday on the BBC news website was particularly harrowing: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-45980210?fbclid=IwAR35-lJKh3vVLAhq0N7O9gEU4Vx8ZqHd0ZkMzgdC3CB2gO8YO78WTvdgbfQ)
This is an account from one of the survivors: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rotherham-grooming-gang-sexual-abuse-muslim-islamist-racism-white-girls-religious-extremism-a8261831.html)
And an article from Forbes.com on the widespread abuse in Rotherham: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a)
Hardy if you read the BBC reports you'll find they rarely if ever mention the men are Muslim. They'll report that they are Asian. But that's as far as they will go. Why?
A lot of people don't like the Indo - but they report on the fact that these gangs are made up of fundamentalist muslim men.
I posted the Indo's account and the Forbes account to highlight the other side who are actually speaking up. Unfortunately the mainstream media like the BBC are not calling out the fact these men are muslim men and their religious beliefs in many cases are driving their behavior....
I didn't know Islam said you have to sexually abuse children.
Sexually abuse of children is wrong . Full Stop.
Whether it be by Muslims, Hindus, Catholic priests, sports coaches, BBC people etc etc.
On the latter what religion was Jimmy Saville and why would it be important to say it?
Is the religion of white men involved in paedophile or sex abuse rings always mentioned?
Quote from: J70 on October 30, 2018, 05:48:56 PM
Is the religion of white men involved in paedophile or sex abuse rings always mentioned?
If someone is using religion to justify their actions then their religion should be mentioned. Taken from the article:
Quote"Muslim girls are good and pure because they dress modestly, covering down to their ankles and wrists, and covering their crotch area. They stay virgins until marriage. They are our girls.
"White girls and non-Muslim girls are bad because you dress like slags. You show the curves of your bodies (showing the gap between your thighs means you're asking for it) and therefore you're immoral. White girls sleep with hundreds of men. You are the other girls. You are worthless and you deserve to be gang-raped."
You think there's not enough outrage about the fact that these criminals are Muslim? Is that it?
Quote from: Hardy on October 30, 2018, 07:29:43 PM
You think there's not enough outrage about the fact that these criminals are Muslim? Is that it?
No, I think because they're muslim, a lot people are afraid of being politically incorrect, racist or otherwise and aren't talking about the links between fundamentalism and the abuse
Correct me if I've got the wrong end if the stick but I think a member of your organisation is in no place to be throwing stones.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2018, 08:06:55 PM
Correct me if I've got the wrong end if the stick but I think a member of your organisation is in no place to be throwing stones.
you're going down a very slippery road with that comment.....but good job on addressing the actual post
Islam is a stupid religion, much like Christianity.
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.
Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.
We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.
I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.
There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)
You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:45:31 AM
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.
Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.
We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.
I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.
There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)
You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
Great post. I'd agree that it's the culture as opposed to the religion that is to blame.
Christian gangs abusing children in Ireland
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/tuam-home-s-infant-mortality-rates-like-those-of-1700s-1.3676053
Taxpayers end up footing the bill any time the church gets involved in abuse.
But at least the rapists are not Muslim. Better the predator you know
So why weren't they just referred to as a Pakistani gang
I would expect a traveller gang in the UK to be referred to as an Irish gang (rather than a Catholic gang)
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:45:31 AM
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.
Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.
We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.
I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.
There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)
You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women. In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse. I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....
In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:45:31 AM
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.
Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.
We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.
I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.
There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)
You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women. In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse. I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....
In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
Iceman
That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?
"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"
Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.
But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?
People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?
Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.
The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.
But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?
People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?
Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.
The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
The Indo had an article a while ago about the murder of a gay RTE producer in Dublin in the 1980s. The Gardaí questioned a large number of people in the gay community about the murder, revealing in the process their homosexuality. A number of suicides followed.
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 11:53:36 AM
Iceman
That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?
"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"
Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
Are women oppressed in Muslim countries?
Is homosexuality outlawed in Muslim countries?
Would you send your wife/mother/sister to live in a Muslim country?
You didn't bother to address any of the points I made. Other than ask non related questions of your own and point fingers at catholicism....
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.
But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?
People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?
Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.
The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.
But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?
People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?
Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.
The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....
What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.
But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?
People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?
Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.
The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....
What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?
I already posted why - in my original post - but I'll post one of the articles again here for you: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a)
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:45:31 AM
Curious topic and a curious thread title. I don't think it's a stretch to say you may have an agenda in the choice of words. Lord knows you've endured your own battles regarding the stout Catholicism to which you are aligned.
Many points on this - and I wouldn't claim to have an answer at all.
We are living in an ever expanding, ever multicultural world. These cultural mixes encompass societal, religious, economic, moral, and ethnic variations from what we consider to be the culture we grew up in. I.E. White, multi classed, western Europe values. Even within the culture we grew up in there were vast differences in behavior acceptances and norms which spanned geography and economic classes. However for the most part, right was right and wrong was wrong - particularly in regards to serious crime.
I'm as left as they come for the most part (beyond the nonsensical) but it certainly appears that many of these recent reports have a cultural identity different to that of which I align as the perpetrators of these grooming and abuse circles. That doesn't align with Islam for me however no more so than our "Catholicism" correlates to sectarianism against our protestant neighbors.
There are obviously a plethora of reasons that rape is still prevalent in many cultures (South Africa, India are two country identities which have some serious challenges to over come in their current rape culture - and many of the rapes in India are carried out in Hindu predominant areas against muslim children)
You have a long way to go to isolate this against Islam. Perhaps looking at the entire make up of the cultural differences may be a more honest conversation
No real agenda Puck other than this was argued over on another thread and we thought it warranted a separate thread.
How deep is your understanding of Islam though? I have listened to many interviews with Muslims who would be more culturally Muslim than what you might say followers of true Islam. And then heard fundamentalist followers of Islam speak and it's two very different people. Like comparing a cultural Jew to a Orthodox Jew who lives and breathes his religion....
Everywhere there is Islam you will find women oppressed. I don't know of anyone on this board who would genuinely send their female loved ones to live in a majority muslim country? Any takers? Female mutiliation, forced marriages, in 12 Islamic countries homosexuality is outlawed and punishable by death and that's mainstream muslim culture, not even what people would know as Jihad or Isis controlled areas where you'll see videos of gay men being thrown to their death from a rooftop. In england there is a real pattern of gangs of muslim men raping and abusing young women. In rotherham there were 1400 counts of abuse. I listed above multiple cases in different towns where you will find there has been mass muslim immigration. But you have people on the left (for whatever reason) ardently calling anyone who points these things out as racist. That's before we even talk about terrorism....
In Ireland because of the Palestine issue, people also get behind Islam. But Palestine shouldn't be about religion just like the conflict in Ireland shouldn't be about religion. What unites both causes is the people, the land, the illegal occupation and oppression by the occupying forces.
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
Can you list the differences between Islam and Christianity and which of these differences you find dangerous?
Thanks in advance.
I'm not at all sure about how Iceman's concept of me "sending" female family members to live elsewhere is supposed to work, but, for what it's worth, I did live, with my now-wife, for about a year in a muslim country and we have been back several times since. The women there did not seem to be oppressed any more or less than women in the west. Unless of course you count the wearing of the hijab as in itself oppression. I raised this idea with a number of the women I met who did wear it (a lot of women did not), and they all told me that they chose to wear it themselves.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 12:32:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2018, 11:53:36 AM
Iceman
That is a pretty ignorant post. Do you know anything about Sufism ?
Christians using homosexuality as a stick to beat Muslim with is also pretty ignorant .
What do you know about homosexuality in Saudi?
"Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous"
Islam helps over a billion people to live often difficult lives. You don't know anything about it.
Are women oppressed in Muslim countries?
Is homosexuality outlawed in Muslim countries?
Would you send your wife/mother/sister to live in a Muslim country?
You didn't bother to address any of the points I made. Other than ask non related questions of your own and point fingers at catholicism....
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/predators-watch-out-for-young-girls-three-students-report-rape-in-first-two-weeks-of-college-term-in-cork-37352096.html
Reports of rape among 'vulnerable' first year students are 'common' and happen annually - rape crisis centres
Between 45-50 students reported rape in Galway in last 6 months
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/partner-of-amanda-carroll-charged-with-her-murder-1.3672666
A 34-year-old man has been remanded in custody after he was charged with murdering his partner Amanda Carroll who was found dead in her apartment in Dublin on Sunday.
Ms Carroll, who was originally from the north inner city, had worked in Marino, in Dublin. The former child-development student had lived at Homestead Court Apartments for the past 11 years.
She had a 16-year-old son and another child aged four.
Homosexuality is underground in poorer countries. It used to be in Ireland too.
And a lot of Asian countries have their own style of homosexuality which doesn't conform to the Western gay model.
My wife and I have lived in a Muslim country. I am not sure that I would send my daughter to school in Kansas
I think your issue is with poverty rather than Islam
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 12:50:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 12:34:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 31, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
I'm still not getting this. I clicked on a few of those links, and clearly those men are Muslim. Even the supposedly lefty UK Independent outright states it.
But are we supposed to be saying that they did it BECAUSE they're Muslim? Are they using some verses from the Koran or the preachings of some imam to justify it?
People in the southern US used the bible for years to rationalize the racist society they'd set up. Does that mean its the concept of christianity that is the issue, or just their fucked up interpretation of it?
Society has a lot to fear from the institutionalization of a number of religions, not just islam. Ireland was no paradise under state-sponsored catholicism. They might not have been throwing gays off the roof, but homosexuality was criminalized into the 90s and utterly repressed culturally. We'll not even get into unmarried mothers, child-abusing priests, contraception and so on.
The British authorities have exposed and are prosecuting these lowlifes and will presumably continue to do so. I'm not sure what else you want.
I firmly believe these gangs have religious motivations. I believe the authorities are reluctant to investigate in many cases and investigations are delayed because of the fear. My opening line was about choosing political correctness over solving crime....
What leads you to believe police are stalling due to the suspects being Muslim?
I already posted why - in my original post - but I'll post one of the articles again here for you: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/#4a2095c0754a)
I'm sorry, but that's a whole lot of intellectual leaps and assumptions that author is making amidst a rant about British people in general passively allowing their society to be changed for the worse by immigration.
Is there any actual data out there? Were the authorities more reluctant in this case, for example, than in the abuse cases involving all those BBC and other celebs a few years back? Are white, native offenders more likely to be investigated? Are there other problems with the Rotherham police force of which their failures in this case might be a symptom? Is it not a historical, universal fact that authorities everywhere have had serious problems investigating sexual assault and abuse?
You may be right in your suspicions, but that piece doesn't amount to much in the way of evidence.
Much to respond to there Iceman.
No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily
So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).
QuoteIslam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Much to respond to there Iceman.
No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily
So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).
QuoteIslam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
Equating sexual with any religion or race is just stupid .
some men rape women
some men rape children
some men rape other men
some Roscommon men rape sheep
the men are TV producers Priests , Journalists, Immans , social workers , scout leader gaa coaches swin coaches soccer coaches , judges ETC
they are are catholic ,prod ,Jew ,atheist, muslim hindu humanist, animist ETC
they live in Ireland England usa Pakistan india Russian japan ETC
The closet thing to a common factor is the 95% of the time it is men, We have set moral standard we cant live by but for the sake of civilization all we can do is keep trying
now let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone
Excellent post -apart from the sheep bit >:(
I see a "former GAA official" was in Court in the North yesterday charged with child abuse.
Therefore using Iceman logic the GAA is evil and you wouldn't want your children or female relatives be in a local GAA club.
Tarring a community because of the sins of a few is wrong especially for Irish people given our history. Jesus Christ!
Human nature has a very dark side and it is not exclusive to any group or nation. The dark web has millions of images of child abuse for example. Pro anorexia websites encourage vulnerable young women to starve themselves to death. Criminals traffic women to Ireland to work as sex slaves.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Much to respond to there Iceman.
No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily
So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).
QuoteIslam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
You would be shocked what I hear from the pulpit every week Puck. It wouldn't slide with your leftist ideals at all mate.
My Pastor is one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He's a real scholar. His homilies are easily a half hour every Mass (that's including week days) and it's like going to a lecture. The richness and depth of his teaching is great.
He has repeatedly affirmed the above messaging. He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today. You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it.
If you read the Qu'ran in chronological order when Mohammad moved from being a man of Peace to a War Monger he wrote that everything he wrote in the second part of his life supersedes the earlier life and earlier writings. He taught "convert, subjugate or kill". There is nothing peaceful about that.... where do you think Jihad comes from?
It's a religion, in it's truest form, that suppresses women, encourages violence against those of us who would not be converted and uses the sword to spread....
There's rogue pastors and individuals all over many religions making their living through charismatic preaching and preying on naturally existing predispositions - what does your papal leader say about Islam?
That aside - as I mentioned in my initial post we are facing an ever increasing mix of many attributes that were once confined to separate countries and "identities". Assimilating these mixes peacefully and seamlessly is a challenge, of that there is no doubt. Nationalism as it's currently being peddled from a political perspective is pissing in the wind of the reality of human movement throughout the world and is a futile effort.
I find the dehumanizing/downgrading of the human elements that make up any certain demographic to be dangerous rhetoric at best.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Much to respond to there Iceman.
No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily
So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).
QuoteIslam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
You would be shocked what I hear from the pulpit every week Puck. It wouldn't slide with your leftist ideals at all mate.
My Pastor is one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He's a real scholar. His homilies are easily a half hour every Mass (that's including week days) and it's like going to a lecture. The richness and depth of his teaching is great.
He has repeatedly affirmed the above messaging. He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today. You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it.
If you read the Qu'ran in chronological order when Mohammad moved from being a man of Peace to a War Monger he wrote that everything he wrote in the second part of his life supersedes the earlier life and earlier writings. He taught "convert, subjugate or kill". There is nothing peaceful about that.... where do you think Jihad comes from?
It's a religion, in it's truest form, that suppresses women, encourages violence against those of us who would not be converted and uses the sword to spread....
Climate change is scary. Islam isn't
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Much to respond to there Iceman.
No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily
So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).
QuoteIslam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
You would be shocked what I hear from the pulpit every week Puck. It wouldn't slide with your leftist ideals at all mate.
My Pastor is one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He's a real scholar. His homilies are easily a half hour every Mass (that's including week days) and it's like going to a lecture. The richness and depth of his teaching is great.
He has repeatedly affirmed the above messaging. He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today. You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it.
If you read the Qu'ran in chronological order when Mohammad moved from being a man of Peace to a War Monger he wrote that everything he wrote in the second part of his life supersedes the earlier life and earlier writings. He taught "convert, subjugate or kill". There is nothing peaceful about that.... where do you think Jihad comes from?
It's a religion, in it's truest form, that suppresses women, encourages violence against those of us who would not be converted and uses the sword to spread....
I cant seem to square the first part in bold with second part! If your pastor believes that then frankly he is a bin lid. Sadly your whole view on this subject is tainted.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Much to respond to there Iceman.
No, I wouldn't want my family or myself living in a middle eastern society. It has nothing to do with Islam in isolation - it's the combination of the society that I have no interest in. I wouldn't want us living in an Asian culture either necessarily
So long as you continue to hold this view below - I have to argue you are straying into being morally crooked as opposed to straight. That is an incredibly large, and ignorant brush stroke (no matter how much you claim to know about Islam - which I won't argue could be more than me).
QuoteIslam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
You have always been devoted to the Catholic Church - what does your religion and your religious leader state about Islam? I doubt very much the Pope would let you slide with the above.
You would be shocked what I hear from the pulpit every week Puck. It wouldn't slide with your leftist ideals at all mate.
My Pastor is one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He's a real scholar. His homilies are easily a half hour every Mass (that's including week days) and it's like going to a lecture. The richness and depth of his teaching is great.
He has repeatedly affirmed the above messaging. He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today. You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it.
If you read the Qu'ran in chronological order when Mohammad moved from being a man of Peace to a War Monger he wrote that everything he wrote in the second part of his life supersedes the earlier life and earlier writings. He taught "convert, subjugate or kill". There is nothing peaceful about that.... where do you think Jihad comes from?
It's a religion, in it's truest form, that suppresses women, encourages violence against those of us who would not be converted and uses the sword to spread....
Why?
Quote from: Mike Tyson on October 31, 2018, 01:42:09 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 11:45:31 AM
Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society.
Can you list the differences between Islam and Christianity and which of these differences you find dangerous?
Thanks in advance.
Have you had time to compile this list yet?
Thanks.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
You would be shocked what I hear from the pulpit every week Puck. It wouldn't slide with your leftist ideals at all mate.
My Pastor is one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He's a real scholar. His homilies are easily a half hour every Mass (that's including week days) and it's like going to a lecture. The richness and depth of his teaching is great.
He has repeatedly affirmed the above messaging. He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today. You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it.
Sounds like a Catholic version of Martyrs Memorial
Quote from: Puckoon on October 31, 2018, 03:19:11 PM
There's rogue pastors and individuals all over many religions making their living through charismatic preaching and preying on naturally existing predispositions - what does your papal leader say about Islam?
That aside - as I mentioned in my initial post we are facing an ever increasing mix of many attributes that were once confined to separate countries and "identities". Assimilating these mixes peacefully and seamlessly is a challenge, of that there is no doubt. Nationalism as it's currently being peddled from a political perspective is pissing in the wind of the reality of human movement throughout the world and is a futile effort.
I find the dehumanizing/downgrading of the human elements that make up any certain demographic to be dangerous rhetoric at best.
It doesn't matter what the Pope personally says about anything Puck. He isn't the church. He's the servant of the Church just like our priest (who btw certainly isn't a rogue Priest).
I think that is nonsense :o ^^^^ He's the head of the Church, Top Dog, King of the Hill, top of the heap!
If he was espousing the same views as you I don't think you'd be long trotting them out!?
Is he some fundamentalist Prod self styled Christian when he's called "Pastor"?
I'd imagine half hour ranting from him every Sunday would empty Churches of normal people.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2018, 04:42:35 PM
Is he some fundamentalist Prod self styled Christian when he's called "Pastor"?
I'd imagine half hour ranting from him every Sunday would empty Churches of normal people.
All of this ideas would be pastorised
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
He believes and the Church believes that Islam is the single greatest threat to western civilization we face today. You may not want to hear that but I hear it and I believe it.
All right all right all right..
Ice, I was of the understanding that you were a particularly devout Catholic, specifically the "One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" as administered by the Roman Curia under the current leadership (at least on this planet) of Jorge Mario Bergoglio aka Pope Francis.
if that is indeed the case, then I'm afraid that this church would have a very profound disagreement with your statements as outlined above. And lets be clear, what you want to hear and what you wish to believe are your choices, and yours alone, not those of the church whose positions you selectively agree with.
You alone pick the pulpit at which you listen, and you alone choose what parts of that teaching to which you adhere.
Your eloquent Pastor does not speak for the catholic church and for the curia, and certainly not for the new testament, the teachings of Christ or Vatican II or catechism.
Quick sample for you below.
John 13:34
Love One Another
...33Little children, I am with you only a little while longer. You will look for Me, and as I said to the Jews, so now I say to you: 'Where I am going, you cannot come.' 34A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another."...
Francis, Message to Muslims throughout the world for the end of Ramadan, July 10, 2013
To Muslims throughout the World
It gives me great pleasure to greet you as you celebrate 'Id al-Fitr', so concluding the month of Ramadan, dedicated mainly to fasting, prayer and almsgiving.
It is a tradition by now that, on this occasion, the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue. . . sends you a message of good wishes, together with a proposed theme for common reflection. This year, the first of my Pontificate, I have decided to sign this traditional message myself and to send it to you, dear friends, as an expression of esteem and friendship for all Muslims, especially those who are religious leaders.
As you all know, when the Cardinals elected me as Bishop of Rome and Universal Pastor of the Catholic Church, I chose the name of "Francis", a very famous saint who loved God and every human being deeply, to the point of being called "universal brother". He loved, helped and served the needy, the sick and the poor; he also cared greatly for creation.
I am aware that family and social dimensions enjoy a particular prominence for Muslims during this period, and it is worth noting that there are certain parallels in each of these areas with Christian faith and practice.
This year, the theme on which I would like to reflect with you and with all who will read this message is one that concerns both Muslims and Christians: Promoting Mutual Respect through Education.
This year's theme is intended to underline the importance of education in the way we understand each other, built upon the foundation of mutual respect. "Respect" means an attitude of kindness towards people for whom we have consideration and esteem. "Mutual" means that this is not a one-way process, but something shared by both sides.
What we are called to respect in each person is first of all his life, his physical integrity, his dignity and the rights deriving from that dignity, his reputation, his property, his ethnic and cultural identity, his ideas and his political choices. We are therefore called to think, speak and write respectfully of the other, not only in his presence, but always and everywhere, avoiding unfair criticism or defamation. Families, schools, religious teaching and all forms of media have a role to play in achieving this goal.
Turning to mutual respect in interreligious relations, especially between Christians and Muslims, we are called to respect the religion of the other, its teachings, its symbols, its values. Particular respect is due to religious leaders and to places of worship. How painful are attacks on one or other of these!
It is clear that, when we show respect for the religion of our neighbours or when we offer them our good wishes on the occasion of a religious celebration, we simply seek to share their joy, without making reference to the content of their religious convictions.
Regarding the education of Muslim and Christian youth, we have to bring up our young people to think and speak respectfully of other religions and their followers, and to avoid ridiculing or denigrating their convictions and practices.
We all know that mutual respect is fundamental in any human relationship, especially among people who profess religious belief. In this way, sincere and lasting friendship can grow.
When I received the Diplomatic Corps accredited to the Holy See on 22 March 2013. . . , I said: "It is not possible to establish true links with God, while ignoring other people. Hence it is important to intensify dialogue among the various religions, and I am thinking particularly of dialogue with Islam. At the Mass marking the beginning of my ministry, I greatly appreciated the presence of so many civil and religious leaders from the Islamic world." With these words, I wished to emphasize once more the great importance of dialogue and cooperation among believers, in particular Christians and Muslims, and the need for it to be enhanced.
With these sentiments, I reiterate my hope that all Christians and Muslims may be true promoters of mutual respect and friendship, in particular through education.
Finally, I send you my prayerful good wishes, that your lives may glorify the Almighty and give joy to those around you.
Happy Feast to you all!
From the Vatican, 10 July 2013
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
John Paul II, address to a symposium on "Holiness in Christianity and in Islam," Rome, May 9, 1985
"All true holiness comes from God, who is called 'The Holy One' in the sacred books of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Your holy Qur'an calls God 'Al-Quddus,' as in the verse: 'He is God, besides whom there is no other, the Sovereign, the Holy, the (source of) Peace' (Qur'an 59, 23). The prophet Hosea links God's holiness with his forgiving love for mankind, a love which surpasses our ability to comprehend: 'I am God, not man; I am the Holy One in your midst and have no wish to destroy' (Ho 11:9). In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus teaches his disciples that holiness consists in assuming, in our human way, the qualities of God's own holiness which he has revealed to mankind: 'Be holy, even as your heavenly Father is holy' (Mt 5:48).
"Thus the Qur'an calls you to uprightness (al-salah), to conscientious devotion (al-taqwa), to goodness (al-husn), and to virtue (al-birr), which is described as believing in God, giving one's wealth to the needy, freeing captives, being constant in prayer, keeping one's word, and being patient in times of suffering, hardship and violence (Qur'an 2:177). Similarly, St. Paul stresses the love we must show toward all, and the duty to lead a blameless life in the sight of God: 'May the Lord be generous in increasing your love and make you love one another and the whole human race as much as we love you. And may he so confirm your hearts in holiness that you may be blameless in the sight of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus Christ comes with all his saints' (1 Th 3:12-13).
Leviticus 19:18
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
Matthew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
John 15:17
This is My command to you: Love one another.
Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Outdo yourselves in honoring one another.
Romans 13:8
Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law.
Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.
Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ephesians 5:2
and walk in love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant sacrificial offering to God.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Now about brotherly love, you do not need anyone to write to you, because you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another.
Hebrews 13:1
Continue in brotherly love.
1 Peter 1:22
Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.
1 John 2:7
Beloved, I am not writing you a new commandment, but an old one, which you have had from the beginning. This commandment is the message you have heard.
1 John 2:8
Then again, I am also writing you a new commandment, which is true in Him and also in you. For the darkness is fading and the true light is already shining.
1 John 3:11
This is the message you have heard from the beginning: We should love one another.
1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
1 John 4:10
And love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
1 John 4:21
And we have this commandment from Him: Whoever loves God must love his brother as well.
2 John 1:5
And now I urge you, dear lady--not as a new commandment to you, but one we have had from the beginning--that we love one another.
Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
"The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men. Yet she proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is 'the way, the truth and the life' (Jn 1:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2Co 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life.
"The Church, therefore, urges her sons to enter with prudence and charity into discussion and collaboration with members of other religions. Let Christians, while witnessing to their own faith and way of life, acknowledge, preserve and encourage the spiritual and moral truths found among non-Christians, also their social life and culture.
"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his Virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly invoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting.
"Over the centuries many quarrels and dissensions have arisen between Christians and Muslims. The sacred Council now pleads with all to forget the past, and urges that a sincere effort be made to achieve mutual understanding; for the benefit of all men, let them together preserve and promote peace, liberty, social justice and moral values."
"Therefore, the Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against people or any harassment of them on the basis of their race, color, condition in life or religion. Accordingly, following the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, the sacred Council earnestly begs the Christian faithful to 'conduct themselves well among the Gentiles' (1P 2:12) and if possible, as far as depends on them, to be at peace with all men (cf. Rm 12:18), and in that way to be true sons of the Father who is in heaven (cf. Mt 5:45)."
Islam is a younger religion than Christianity. it has not yet the undergone a comparable upheaval as the Catholic church did during the Reformation and Renaissance. Probably more difficult for Islam to do so, as it was never as monolithic as the Roman Church.
During the Caliphate, Islamic cities were centres of study, and of incredible cultural and scientific progress.
Following the collapse of the Ottoman empire, the discovery of oil and the partition of the Middle East by the great powers, the ordinary populations of these countries have been exploited, abused and degraded. Any attempt to draw a generalisation from the behaviour of a small segment of a population, without taking into account economic and societal factors that have a far greater effect on that behaviour, is asinine and dangerous (far more then Iceman's blatantly bigoted idea of Islam). Anyone who knows anything about the abuse scandals here know that the cultural primacy of the priest in Irish society and the weakness of the working class, the social deprivations that led to industrial schools and Magdalene laundries, had far more to do with it than an over riding belief in one Holy Apostolic Church.
But if someone suggested that all Irish catholics were dangerous because of our own scandals - which were far more prevalent than the examples Iceman is giving - then the bleating you would hear from the faithful would deafen you.
Give people bread now and they don't have to worry about heaven later. Economic stability and a strong working and middle class, with safeguards against exploitation from the business class, usually leads to more liberal social attitudes, no matter the religion - and by definition 1.6 billion people can't be fanatics.
If we are not prepared to acknowledge the affect that Western exploitation has had on the cultures of the developing world, then we are further away from real equality than ever before.
And Iceman, you should really cop yourself on. This is hate speech you are throwing out there. There were genuine questions about the authorities response to Rotheram, which were addressed in the report following the scandal. But extrapolating an existential threat from Islam because of that situation means you are either being taken advantage of your "pastor" (and as a grown man you should be ashamed at being led so docilely to intolerance) or you are an enthusiastic bigot.
These are not good choices, and are so far away from the teachings of Christ that you profess to adhere to, as to be laughable.
You want an existential threat to worry about? Try the American Republican Party, which, backed by oligarchs, evangelicals and white fascists is not only stoking fear and hatred against minorities, are also denying and actively accelerating the ecological destruction of our planet in pursuit of profit and a dingbatted belief in the Rapture. All this whilst sitting on the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world, and being led by a corpulent, lecherous, pumpkin faced, misogynistic certified f$£king thick.
That is dangerous. You should grow up and stop kissing your pastor's feet.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT4uQkaHm6EeUDFo40/giphy.gif)
I have to agree with heganboy. . . I'd go to Mass fairly regularly and have heard nothing of this nonsense of Islam being the biggest threat to our society so it's certainly not a Church edict this Priest is going rogue!
The worst I've heard from our Priest and threats to our children and society was a homily about WWE and The Godfather "With a trail of prostitutes behind him". The other was about Tupac and "Gangsta . . . rap" and how his lyrics would destroy our kids and how he was a buggerer corrupting young minds.
Both those things were nonsense and indeed Islam being the biggest threat to Western Society is also that.
What is your proof or your Priests for this ridiculous claim? Anecdotal at best!
As discussed in the US Politics thread more people in the USA die from right wing nut jobs losing the plot than any kind of terrorism yet I wonder what the disparity is between preparedness for Islamist Terrorism and Domestic threats. I can guarantee you it's pretty massive. and totally not justified!
Anecdotal stories about the threat of Islam and jihadi's and rape gangs does only one thing. . . spread fear!! Fear is a great way of getting bums on seats for a Church that is losing its relevancy around the world. Priests can be as cynical as the next person and if this dude is getting a crowd by spouting fear for half an hour a week he will continue to do so. As you've said he's quite intelligent!!!
Heganboy appreciate your copy and paste efforts. The Church is a living and breathing entity. The documents you cite are from 60+ years ago and the bible quotes you cite don't change anything I said? Pope Francis is doing his best to find common ground, to further relationships, to open doors to reconciliation.... He is speaking in love but we are called to speak the truth in love and he often leaves out the truth part. He's great at sugar coating but the hard messages have to be delivered sometimes and he doesn't do that.
Here's a 2 year old article on how and why the Church's non-doctrinal teaching on Islam is changing:
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2016/09/08/time-for-catholics-to-reconsider-islam-and-the-prophet-muhammad/ (https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2016/09/08/time-for-catholics-to-reconsider-islam-and-the-prophet-muhammad/)
And for Mike Tyson (because it's my job of course to respond to your every request):
In lay man's terms:
God has a begotten Son — Allah has no son
God is complex (3 in ONE) — Allah is simplex
God never changes — Allah can not only change his mind, he can also change his nature.
God Loves Sinners — Allah hates sinners
How Does Muhammad match up to being a Prophet of God?
Moses — Father of Judaism
Jesus — Father of Christianity
Muhammad –- Father of Islam
Compare the three
As warriors
Moses did battle against Amalek because he was attacked.
Jesus never took up the sword or ordered his disciples to do so.
Muhammad led in 66 military campaigns and robbed Trade Caravans often.
In Sexual Purity
Moses was faithful to his wife Zipporah
Jesus never married nor did he have physical relationship with any woman
Muhammad had at least 19 wives and countless concubines — Sexuality is a big part of Islam. Even sex with children (one of his wives was 6 years old and he consummated the marriage with her at 9 years old)
But I'll go back to my original comments which I had hoped someone would address?
Do you think Islam oppresses women? Evidence would suggest that in majority muslim countries this is true.
Do you think that Islam accepts homosexuality? Evidence would suggest that in majority muslim countries it definitely does not -it outlaws it and in many countries it is punishable by death.
and the reasons you won't hear about this in Mass in Ireland or whatever airy fairy parish you are going to is because the Priest there is struggling to keep bums on seats and tells people what they want to hear. A mass in armagh today is 40 mins including a homily - it's a joke. And our Priest's mesage doesn't fill the pews. I go to a very poor parish and our priest has been asked to relocate to larger parishes in wealthier areas but refuses to leave in favor of a quieter life. He's a retired principal of the seminary in D.C. He's not some rogue with a mission - he's a learned man...
it's nothing to do with the Priest. These opinions have grown over time. In fact I'd be just as influenced on the subject by a gay Jewish man in the form of Milo Yiannopoulos as I would be by my priest and my church. He points out its the biggest hypocrisy of the left. Homophobia is a christian bakery not baking a cake....but when Muslims through a gay man from a rooftop to his death....free pass.....
Have a watch at some of his interviews.
Listen to Jordan Peterson.
Ben Shapiro.
Some interesting commentary from all of these guys from varying backgrounds.
Jesus f**king Christ. You're a crackpot.
Jordan f**king Peterson - that's where we've got to - f**king hell LOLOLOL
Surely he's not talking about Milo "13 year olds are Ok to have gay relationships with older men" Yiannopoulos???
You're struggling badly here Iceman!!
Slightly off topic I know but would be interested to hear views on this case.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46048433 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46048433)
Quote from: maddog on October 31, 2018, 09:34:09 PM
Slightly off topic I know but would be interested to hear views on this case.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46048433 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46048433)
India and Pakistan both have caste systems of respectable people and untouchables. It is an extreme form of social control. In India an untouchable leader called Dr Ambedkar led mass conversions to Buddhism because there is no untouchability in Buddhism. Everyone is the same.
In Pakistan untouchables such as this lady converted to Christianity. The corner boys in her village didn't accept these notions that she could escape her untouchable identity so they came up
with blasphemy. Nothing to do with Islam ie would not happen in Algeria or Turkey. Untouchability is a South Asia thing.
Thanks for replying, appreciate it.
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 05:35:28 PM
And for Mike Tyson (because it's my job of course to respond to your every request):
In lay man's terms:
God has a begotten Son — Allah has no son
God is complex (3 in ONE) — Allah is simplex
God never changes — Allah can not only change his mind, he can also change his nature.
God Loves Sinners — Allah hates sinners
Don't know where you get that from, the Quran says "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins." (Quran Az Zumar 39: 53)
Quote from: The Iceman on October 31, 2018, 05:35:28 PM
Compare the three
As warriors
Moses did battle against Amalek because he was attacked.
Jesus never took up the sword or ordered his disciples to do so.
Muhammad led in 66 military campaigns and robbed Trade Caravans often.
In Sexual Purity
Moses was faithful to his wife Zipporah
Jesus never married nor did he have physical relationship with any woman
Muhammad had at least 19 wives and countless concubines — Sexuality is a big part of Islam. Even sex with children (one of his wives was 6 years old and he consummated the marriage with her at 9 years old)
Are these are the two reasons why you think "Islam is dangerous. True Islam is dangerous. I don't think it has a place in a functioning, peaceful western society" ?
Can't see any other difference causing you to believe this?
As you have clearly outlined, neither of these issues were applicable to the catholic church, so why did it have the worlds largest coordinated cover up and rotation of child rapists? And countless other heinous crimes?
Why not change the title of the thread to Islamophobia and the imagined threats?
Having studied this great thread I think we can all agree that anyone who practices any religion is an idiot.
Spake for yourself Itch and leave the rest of us to our own beliefs.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2018, 11:17:30 PM
Spake for yourself Itch and leave the rest of us to our own beliefs.
Sure I never said you should stop your beliefs lad. Knock yourself out. I do find it hilarious that a Catholic would criticise a bunch of sickos in another religion. It's not like he needed to go far from home to find just as bad sickos.
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2018, 11:14:15 PM
Having studied this great thread I think we can all agree that anyone who practices any religion is an idiot.
To clarify for the record I don't agree so your statement us factually incorrect.
So, person worried about the dangerously repressive attitude in "Islam" towards women and homosexuals' rights (which he openly campaigned against on the pages of this board during the marriage equality referendum) turns for advice to a man who has advocated for the policy of forced monogamy (Jordan Peterson supports compelling women to have sex with disaffected young men in order to prevent them becoming mass murderers) another man who has spoken of his support for the practice of underage boys having sexual relationships with older men (Milo reckons that child abuse is just a rite of passage) and another who has made his career being the editor of a misogynistic and alt right aligned online magazine (Shapiro began as an editor at Breitbart).
This is beyond parody Ice. You may think you are "heightening the contradictions" and "owning the libs" - but all you're doing is revealing yourself as an easily led bigot.
Very sad, and a long way away from your stated Christian values.
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 01, 2018, 10:29:13 AM
So, person worried about the dangerously repressive attitude in "Islam" towards women and homosexuals' rights (which he openly campaigned against on the pages of this board during the marriage equality referendum) turns for advice to a man who has advocated for the policy of forced monogamy (Jordan Peterson supports compelling women to have sex with disaffected young men in order to prevent them becoming mass murderers) another man who has spoken of his support for the practice of underage boys having sexual relationships with older men (Milo reckons that child abuse is just a rite of passage) and another who has made his career being the editor of a misogynistic and alt right aligned online magazine (Shapiro began as an editor at Breitbart).
This is beyond parody Ice. You may think you are "heightening the contradictions" and "owning the libs" - but all you're doing is revealing yourself as an easily led bigot.
Very sad, and a long way away from your stated Christian values.
Is it possible to agree with someone on something but not everything Easytiger?
Is it possible for me to agree with Jordan Peterson on his views on feminism today? On equal rights? On the pay gap and why it exists? But not on whatever you have dragged up? He's not a Christian, not even close, but still I listen to his commentary.
Is it possible for me to agree with Milo about the threat of Islam? I obviously don't agree with his lifestyle choice, but still I listen to his commentary. Very bigoted of me.
Is it possible to listen to Ben Shapiro and agree with some of what he says (I've went after him online for his views on the conflict in Palestine).
There's a problem with grooming gangs in England. Reading the articles, the victims report that the perpetrators use religion as justification for their actions. I haven't heard of priests or anyone else involved in abuse in the Catholic Church citing religion as reason for their abuse. In my opinion Islam is dangerous. I've stated the reasons above. it is not a religion of peace.
Instead of discussing the actual issues I raised and discussing like adults, most people prefer to throw insults, or ridiculous arguments of 'well people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'..... because I'm a Catholic? Really?
Owning the libs? What does that even mean?
Catholics are not republicans (in the American sense). We are pro life and all about social justice. That's contrary to what both parties in the US stand for. They're either one or the other....supposedly..... I try to listen to many sources and come up with my own ideas and opinions. I disagree with a lot of what I read and hear on both sides. I'm open to thinking differently and having my mind changed but not by insults or purposeful aggression. A lot of hard men on this thread who would shit themselves before speaking like that to me in person. It's possible to discuss things.
"I'm all about tolerance and consideration"
*Implies threat of physical violence"
Good lad.
Every single new immigrant group to the US has been accused of the most heinous behaviour. Now it's Muslims but before there were waves of Hispanics, Italian, Poles, Jews- going all the way back to the Irish
https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis
"Anti-Catholic, anti-Irish mobs in Philadelphia destroyed houses and torched churches in the deadly Bible Riots of 1844. New York Archbishop John Hughes responded by building a wall of his own around Old St. Patrick's Cathedral in order to protect it from the native-born population, and he stationed musket-wielding members of the Ancient Order of Hibernians to guard the city's churches. Wild conspiracy theories took root that women were held against their will in Catholic convents and that priests systematically raped nuns and then strangled any children born as a result of their union.....The image of the simian Irishman, imported from Victorian England, was given new life by the pens of illustrators such as Thomas Nast that dripped with prejudice as they sketched Celtic ape-men with sloping foreheads and monstrous appearances."
Iceman is plugging the same crap , the same hate, the same fount of conspiracy theories
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 12:17:04 PM
"I'm all about tolerance and consideration"
*Implies threat of physical violence"
Good lad.
Not at all gallsman. The likes of Gabe goes for the jugular on here but wouldn't say boo to a fly in real life. I would never lay a hand on him.
I haven't laid a hand on anyone in years outside of a training facility. There's no need for carryon like that. Just like theres no need to speak to anyone the way you do to me on here. If you were to speak to me like that in person, could I take that as an threat of physical violence or impending confrontation? If someone cursed at you or insulted you that way to your face what would you think was on the cards? I'm retreating to my safe space for a few minutes.....
Quote from: The Iceman on November 01, 2018, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 01, 2018, 10:29:13 AM
So, person worried about the dangerously repressive attitude in "Islam" towards women and homosexuals' rights (which he openly campaigned against on the pages of this board during the marriage equality referendum) turns for advice to a man who has advocated for the policy of forced monogamy (Jordan Peterson supports compelling women to have sex with disaffected young men in order to prevent them becoming mass murderers) another man who has spoken of his support for the practice of underage boys having sexual relationships with older men (Milo reckons that child abuse is just a rite of passage) and another who has made his career being the editor of a misogynistic and alt right aligned online magazine (Shapiro began as an editor at Breitbart).
This is beyond parody Ice. You may think you are "heightening the contradictions" and "owning the libs" - but all you're doing is revealing yourself as an easily led bigot.
Very sad, and a long way away from your stated Christian values.
Is it possible to agree with someone on something but not everything Easytiger?
Is it possible for me to agree with Jordan Peterson on his views on feminism today? On equal rights? On the pay gap and why it exists? But not on whatever you have dragged up? He's not a Christian, not even close, but still I listen to his commentary.
Is it possible for me to agree with Milo about the threat of Islam? I obviously don't agree with his lifestyle choice, but still I listen to his commentary. Very bigoted of me.
Is it possible to listen to Ben Shapiro and agree with some of what he says (I've went after him online for his views on the conflict in Palestine).
There's a problem with grooming gangs in England. Reading the articles, the victims report that the perpetrators use religion as justification for their actions. I haven't heard of priests or anyone else involved in abuse in the Catholic Church citing religion as reason for their abuse. In my opinion Islam is dangerous. I've stated the reasons above. it is not a religion of peace.
Instead of discussing the actual issues I raised and discussing like adults, most people prefer to throw insults, or ridiculous arguments of 'well people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'..... because I'm a Catholic? Really?
Owning the libs? What does that even mean?
Catholics are not republicans (in the American sense). We are pro life and all about social justice. That's contrary to what both parties in the US stand for. They're either one or the other....supposedly..... I try to listen to many sources and come up with my own ideas and opinions. I disagree with a lot of what I read and hear on both sides. I'm open to thinking differently and having my mind changed but not by insults or purposeful aggression. A lot of hard men on this thread who would shit themselves before speaking like that to me in person. It's possible to discuss things.
You have brought up the evils of sexual abuse of women and homophobia within one religion. You are taking as your sources men who have variously extolled the virtues of compelling women to be raped as a societal good, pederasty and rank misogyny. So you see that you don't have to agree with them on everything - it's just on the things that you do agree with them on i.e sexual abuse within religions, they have absolutely zero credibility, because they have all espoused sexual abuse as a good in one form or another.
And leave out the hard man stuff as well. No one forced you to come on here and spew this trash. You started the thread. Please don't turn into a snowflake when you get called on it.
They just don't make bigoted, ultra religious fanatics the way they used to...
Quote from: The Iceman on November 01, 2018, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 01, 2018, 10:29:13 AM
So, person worried about the dangerously repressive attitude in "Islam" towards women and homosexuals' rights (which he openly campaigned against on the pages of this board during the marriage equality referendum) turns for advice to a man who has advocated for the policy of forced monogamy (Jordan Peterson supports compelling women to have sex with disaffected young men in order to prevent them becoming mass murderers) another man who has spoken of his support for the practice of underage boys having sexual relationships with older men (Milo reckons that child abuse is just a rite of passage) and another who has made his career being the editor of a misogynistic and alt right aligned online magazine (Shapiro began as an editor at Breitbart).
This is beyond parody Ice. You may think you are "heightening the contradictions" and "owning the libs" - but all you're doing is revealing yourself as an easily led bigot.
Very sad, and a long way away from your stated Christian values.
Is it possible to agree with someone on something but not everything Easytiger?
Is it possible for me to agree with Jordan Peterson on his views on feminism today? On equal rights? On the pay gap and why it exists? But not on whatever you have dragged up? He's not a Christian, not even close, but still I listen to his commentary.
Is it possible for me to agree with Milo about the threat of Islam? I obviously don't agree with his lifestyle choice, but still I listen to his commentary. Very bigoted of me.
Is it possible to listen to Ben Shapiro and agree with some of what he says (I've went after him online for his views on the conflict in Palestine).
There's a problem with grooming gangs in England. Reading the articles, the victims report that the perpetrators use religion as justification for their actions. I haven't heard of priests or anyone else involved in abuse in the Catholic Church citing religion as reason for their abuse. In my opinion Islam is dangerous. I've stated the reasons above. it is not a religion of peace.
Instead of discussing the actual issues I raised and discussing like adults, most people prefer to throw insults, or ridiculous arguments of 'well people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'..... because I'm a Catholic? Really?
Owning the libs? What does that even mean?
Catholics are not republicans (in the American sense). We are pro life and all about social justice. That's contrary to what both parties in the US stand for. They're either one or the other....supposedly..... I try to listen to many sources and come up with my own ideas and opinions. I disagree with a lot of what I read and hear on both sides. I'm open to thinking differently and having my mind changed but not by insults or purposeful aggression. A lot of hard men on this thread who would shit themselves before speaking like that to me in person. It's possible to discuss things.
The stuff in bold, such shite. I suppose we could say catholism is not a religion of peace, its a religion of child rapists and cover up of child rapists of abusing kids, selling kids, throwing dead kids in a sewer. A religion of power and control. Its a threat to your kids. Stay clear. For someone in that religion to start throwing stones, well its mind blowing. Rossfan might not like it but all these religions are absolute dumb. People need to evolve I think, another couple of 100 years should do it.
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Hasn't that been tried before?
Quote from: maddog on November 01, 2018, 07:21:29 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Hasn't that been tried before?
Before? Aren't we still doing that today?
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Ann Coulter
@AnnCoulter
The other protester yelling at Flake was an immigrant, Ana Maria Archila. Maybe you could wait a generation or two before screaming at us about how to run our country.
Guatemala prolly has a better healthcare system than the US. The gringos are in no position to patronise anyone
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2018, 02:51:22 AM
Quote from: maddog on November 01, 2018, 07:21:29 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Hasn't that been tried before?
Before? Aren't we still doing that today?
Which was my point. Minus the conversion bit. Replace with install democracy.
Quote from: maddog on November 02, 2018, 09:29:33 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 02, 2018, 02:51:22 AM
Quote from: maddog on November 01, 2018, 07:21:29 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Hasn't that been tried before?
Before? Aren't we still doing that today?
Which was my point. Minus the conversion bit. Replace with install democracy.
Which was my point. Minus the conversion bit. Replace with install
a democracy
which we can manipulate to allow us to drain the country of it's natural resources and/or sell arms to it..
Bit of an edit to clarify your point.
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2018, 05:57:14 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Ann Coulter
@AnnCoulter
The other protester yelling at Flake was an immigrant, Ana Maria Archila. Maybe you could wait a generation or two before screaming at us about how to run our country.
Guatemala prolly has a better healthcare system than the US. The gringos are in no position to patronise anyone
Seafoid! Did you really type "prolly"?!
Quote from: Hardy on November 02, 2018, 05:55:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2018, 05:57:14 AM
Quote from: gallsman on November 01, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"
Ann Coulter, Christian.
Ann Coulter
@AnnCoulter
The other protester yelling at Flake was an immigrant, Ana Maria Archila. Maybe you could wait a generation or two before screaming at us about how to run our country.
Guatemala prolly has a better healthcare system than the US. The gringos are in no position to patronise anyone
Seafoid! Did you really type "prolly"?!
I did,Hardy. For Seamus in case he accused Ann Coulter of being fake
https://news.sky.com/story/asia-bibi-protests-delay-release-of-christian-woman-accused-of-blasphemy-in-pakistan-11542356?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter (https://news.sky.com/story/asia-bibi-protests-delay-release-of-christian-woman-accused-of-blasphemy-in-pakistan-11542356?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter)
They want to publicly hang her for blasphemy. Nice bunch.
An effort to get the facts: What do we know about the ethnicity of people involved in sexual offences against children? (https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/)
As they state it's hard to be definitive as ethnicity is not always recorded. It would appear though that there is a spike in numbers of Asians involved in "grooming gangs" in some of the data sets. (27% of perpetrators versus 8% of population) However, for overall sexual offences and sexual offences against minors the perpetrator is most likely to be a white male.
As ever, there really isn't enough of data to justify any claims about one race, nationality or religion. However there is enough of standalone statistics to throw a bit of mud.
Reality is for any victim of sexual assault in the UK, your abuser is likely to a white male: so beware them lads.
/Jim.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/javid-people-offended-by-asian-paedophile-remark-oversensitive/ar-BBPtzDG?li=BBoPWjQ
Just so everybody is aware where these news stories are coming from:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march