Ulster Club SFC 2019

Started by oakleaflad, October 21, 2019, 10:48:03 AM

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Ethan Tremblay

I think this argument came up a few years back, that most other country champions would struggle to win Tyrone.  To that end I argue the point that:

1 – what is the point of county championships? Easy, to find the "best" team in knockout football over a series of games within that county. 
2 – what is the point in the provincial club championship? To find the best team in knockout football throughout the province by pitting each counties "best" team against each other. 

Thereby if the county champions from Down or Derry were to beat the county champions from Tyrone you would have to consider they could win their championship if entered.  Beating the Tyrone champions should more than validate they are good enough to win Tyrone club. 
I tend to think of myself as a one man wolfpack...

Angelo

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2019, 03:53:39 PM
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and haven't won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesn't make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  I'd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

What's Cross record like against Tyrone teams, think Errigal have beaten them twice and Omagh once.

I would imagine a side like Omagh would have won an Ulster club if they were in another county championship a few years back - teams like Cross, Slaughtneil, Kilcoo, Scotstown are back every year and that is more an indication of the lack of competition in their county championship.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

marty34

Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2019, 04:42:30 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2019, 03:53:39 PM
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and haven't won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesn't make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  I'd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

What's Cross record like against Tyrone teams, think Errigal have beaten them twice and Omagh once.

I would imagine a side like Omagh would have won an Ulster club if they were in another county championship a few years back - teams like Cross, Slaughtneil, Kilcoo, Scotstown are back every year and that is more an indication of the lack of competition in their county championship.

Why do you imagine this Angelo?

imtommygunn

Alternatively those teams mentioned which dominate their county championships are just very good teams...

Christmas Lights

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2019, 03:53:39 PM
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and haven't won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesn't make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  I'd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

NEWTOWNBUTLER   ???

Ethan Tremblay

If Omagh where in another county, they would have to win that first, never mind Ulster....
I tend to think of myself as a one man wolfpack...

Schkite

The Tyronies are gas altogether

Angelo

Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on October 23, 2019, 04:51:09 PM
If Omagh where in another county, they would have to win that first, never mind Ulster....

It would be much easier win another county title than Tyrone.

Clontibret and Scotstown have won the last 7 Monaghan Championships between them. Ballinderry and Slaughtneil had won 7 consecutive titles between them up until last year. Cross have won 21 of the last 24 Armagh Championships? Kilcoo and Burren have shared the last 11 Down titles between them. Derrygonnelly are five in a row in Fermanagh.

I think it's clear which counties need to get their club championships in order......
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

under the bar

Quote from: Mikhailov on October 23, 2019, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: under the bar on October 23, 2019, 02:50:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2019, 02:45:47 PM
Quote from: Pearse Blue on October 23, 2019, 12:05:26 PM
Quote from: topofthesoil on October 23, 2019, 11:59:58 AM
Quote from: regal on October 22, 2019, 11:44:25 PM
Looks a wide open competition as there are no stand out teams.

Cross 11/4. Their tradition alone makes them contenders. 2 outstanding talents in the O'Neill's.
Gweedore 3/1. They don't appear to have the same appetite as last year
Kilcoo 4/1. Stumbled through down but this is where mickey Moran has to earn his considerable corn. They have a serious chance
Trillick 9/2. Don't know much about them. Tyrone's record wouldn't inspire confidence
Glenties 11/1. Some quality but outsiders
Magherafelt 11/1. Seems like big odds for Derry champions?
Clontibret 14/1.
Derrygonnolly 16/1. They will not be far off trillick.
Castlerahan 22/1. Know nothing about them

I will tip kilcoo although their odds are poor at 4/1

Cross 11/4. Their tradition alone makes them contenders. 2 outstanding talents in the O'Neill's. - Cant disagree
Gweedore 3/1. They don't appear to have the same appetite as last year - Not the same hunger, no fire in the belly this year it seems
Kilcoo 4/1. Stumbled through down but this is where mickey Moran has to earn his considerable corn. They have a serious chance - too distracted by off field antics
Trillick 9/2. Don't know much about them. Tyrone's record wouldn't inspire confidence - wouldnt look into Tyrones record, its arguably harder to win Tyrone than to win ulster.
Glenties 11/1. Some quality but outsiders - Not near it, werent all that impressive over the weekend in the drawn game.
Magherafelt 11/1. Seems like big odds for Derry champions? - Dark horse, however I think there content with a county title. I could be wrong.. but im always right.
Clontibret 14/1. - kick the thing in and theyll go far.
Derrygonnolly 16/1. They will not be far off trillick. - Nobody is far off Trillick. If your far off trillick you may pack it in, overrated.
Castlerahan 22/1. Know nothing about them - Have a difficult first round test vs Donegal champs, cant see it ending well.
Mystic Soil has spoken

It's arguably harder to win Tyrone champsionship that to win Ulster? Would an Tyrone team win the Down/Derry championship easier

Errigal Ciaran thirds could win the Derry or Down championships ffs! ;D
.

Errigal 3rds can't even win the junior in Tyrone FFS

That's cos Tyrone junior championship is a higher standard of football than Derry or Down Senior championships!

imtommygunn

I love how you spin stuff Angelo. No Tyrone winners since 2002 and only one Tyrone club have ever won it. That would go against the quote "I think it's clear which counties need to get their club championships in order......".

There I spun that another way for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Senior_Club_Football_Championship
That doesn't make great reading for Tyrone clubs.

marty34

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2019, 05:45:22 PM
Some of my fellow countymen (and a few others) it seems either keep falling into the trap that arguably the most competitive championship = the championship with the highest quality teams, or are suffering from delusion.

The Ulster intercounty SFC during the 80's was the most competitive in Ireland, but whoever won it struggled at the All-Ireland stage. Only facing the Connacht champions in the semi final gave the Ulster winners any real hope of making it to the final.

In terms of the roll of honour in Tyrone in the last decade & a half, there is a wide variety of teams that have won the O'Neill Cup (Tyrone SFC cup) but no team has been able to retain the trophy since Carrickmore did so in 2005. In this years' county SFC, prior to the first game there was around 6-8 teams that you could say had a reasonable chance of claiming honours in the end, Trillick being one of them. However, the last of these winners that came close to provincial success was Omagh when they were defeated by Slaughtneil in the final.

Is it an advantage to be a "big fish in a small pond" thus being regular participants in the Ulster club? I'd say usually it does - but it doesn't always be, Cavan Gaels were dominating Cavan not too long ago but struggled to translate their county dominance in Ulster.

The fact is that Tyrone's representatives in the Ulster Club SFC have in general not been good enough when it has come to the crunch, only Errigal Ciaran have proven themselves at that level. No amount of sugar coating, some threadbare excuses or ridiculous suggestions that winning the Tyrone SFC is harder than the Ulster Club SFC can argue with historical competition results.

Having said that, I do think Trillick have a half decent shot this year. Never a bunch to lack self-confidence, they'll look forward to playing Derrygonnelly. Given how many from Trillick work or be educated in Enniskillen, both sides will know quite a few players in opposition and Trillick will get a rare chance to play a Fermanagh club in a competitive match. Brewster Park should be buzzing on Sunday week.

Fair comment Fionntamhnach.

brokencrossbar1

Quote from: Christmas Lights on October 23, 2019, 04:49:32 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2019, 03:53:39 PM
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and haven't won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesn't make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  I'd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

NEWTOWNBUTLER   ???

;D

Derrygonnelly!!

brokencrossbar1

Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2019, 04:42:30 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 23, 2019, 03:53:39 PM
Jaysus Tyrone ones have a serious high opinion of their championship. EC are the only team to have ever won Ulster and haven't won it since 2002.  They were lucky to as hell to beat us that year too.  Tyrone may be more competitive but that doesn't make it harder to win.  The reality is that Tyrone teams at senior club level have not bee good enough simple as that.  If Trillick make the push through this year then fair play but to be honest I doubt it.  I'd fancy Kilcoo or Magherfelt to beat them handy should they beat Newtownbutler.

What's Cross record like against Tyrone teams, think Errigal have beaten them twice and Omagh once.

I would imagine a side like Omagh would have won an Ulster club if they were in another county championship a few years back - teams like Cross, Slaughtneil, Kilcoo, Scotstown are back every year and that is more an indication of the lack of competition in their county championship.

EC beat us twice and Omagh beat us once. We beat EC, Dromore, Killcogher, think that's it but not 100% sure about that.

Angelo

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 23, 2019, 05:45:22 PM
Some of my fellow countymen (and a few others) it seems either keep falling into the trap that arguably the most competitive championship = the championship with the highest quality teams, or are suffering from delusion.

The Ulster intercounty SFC during the 80's was the most competitive in Ireland, but whoever won it struggled at the All-Ireland stage. Only facing the Connacht champions in the semi final gave the Ulster winners any real hope of making it to the final.

In terms of the roll of honour in Tyrone in the last decade & a half, there is a wide variety of teams that have won the O'Neill Cup (Tyrone SFC cup) but no team has been able to retain the trophy since Carrickmore did so in 2005. In this years' county SFC, prior to the first game there was around 6-8 teams that you could say had a reasonable chance of claiming honours in the end, Trillick being one of them. However, the last of these winners that came close to provincial success was Omagh when they were defeated by Slaughtneil in the final.

Is it an advantage to be a "big fish in a small pond" thus being regular participants in the Ulster club? I'd say usually it does - but it doesn't always be, Cavan Gaels were dominating Cavan not too long ago but struggled to translate their county dominance in Ulster.

The fact is that Tyrone's representatives in the Ulster Club SFC have in general not been good enough when it has come to the crunch, only Errigal Ciaran have proven themselves at that level. No amount of sugar coating, some threadbare excuses or ridiculous suggestions that winning the Tyrone SFC is harder than the Ulster Club SFC can argue with historical competition results.

Having said that, I do think Trillick have a half decent shot this year. Never a bunch to lack self-confidence, they'll look forward to playing Derrygonnelly. Given how many from Trillick work or be educated in Enniskillen, both sides will know quite a few players in opposition and Trillick will get a rare chance to play a Fermanagh club in a competitive match. Brewster Park should be buzzing on Sunday week.

Tyrone clubs generally compete fairly well regardless of who goes forward, they are very rarely given a big beating and usually pick up a few wins along the way. The fact is Tyrone have probably 5 or 6 clubs who can come out of the county championship and give a good account of themselves along the way, I don't think another county in Ulster can say the same. I think when you are regularly winning your county title, then you are looking beyond that and are tailoring your plans for a tilt at Ulster.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

under the bar

Tyrone and Donegal have wiped their asses with every other Ulster team they've met in the past decade and they probably both have the most competitive club championships in Ulster.