Man Utd Thread:

[johnnycool]

United improved / Arsenal went into their shell a bit after the goal. 1-1 fair enough at half time.

I should add that had he have seen De Gea and decided not to stop the game and therefore have awarded the goal immediately I wouldn't have an issue with the goal. It's the way he's behaved I have a problem with. He's clearly made a decision then changed his mind due the ball going in.

A decision isn't actually made until the whistle goes. Whistle went after ball was in the net.

That's not right. How do you chalk goals off for offside if there's a late flag?  How about for handball?

You're mixing your apples and oranges. There was no foul, so the timing of the whistle was all that mattered.

The timing of the decision is relevant not the timing of the whistle. If he decides the game is to be stopped for an injury anything after that is irrelevant. It appears that's the decision he makes. If it's not why does he move the whistle to his mouth before the shot. Why does he take so long to allow the goal. Why does he initially wag his finger at Arsenal players when they ask about the goal. Why is there any discussion on allowing the goal with whoever he is talking to?  As I say I don't think he could award it. I think he's deciding he's stopping that game for player welfare reasons and has changed his mind because the ball went into the net.

Looks like the ref only noticed DeGea in a pile when Smith thingy was shooting and probably didn't award the goal until VAR had looked at how DeGea got injured.

IMO if it had been an Arsenal player that stood on his wee tootsies then the goal would have been ruled out but because it was Fred the goal had to stand and correctly so.

Ref was poor all night on the big decisions, no need for VAR on the Man U penalty, it was as obvious as you're going to get and then Harry pulling the arm off the lad should have been looked at and given on review but with him being an Engerland international we move quickly on.
I thought the two second choice fullbacks for Utd did well but like Maguire coming back in will lose their places to WanBassaka and Shaw immediately..


Arsenal are playing out from the back, still don't look overly comfortable at it, but when it did work out for them they created chances, Abamayang not prolific enough IMO.


Big gap between these two and the top three.

[Armagh18]

Dalot impressive as well for me, would give him a run ahead of Wan Bissaka. Shaw needs to pull his finger out or I'd be happy enough leaving Telles in the team.

Christ we need a decent midfielder as much as I like McTominay he isn't good enough to be starting every week and Fred is just comedy gold at this stage. Why Herrera was let go is beyond me.

[Ghost]

Dalot impressive as well for me, would give him a run ahead of Wan Bissaka. Shaw needs to pull his finger out or I'd be happy enough leaving Telles in the team.

Christ we need a decent midfielder as much as I like McTominay he isn't good enough to be starting every week and Fred is just comedy gold at this stage. Why Herrera was let go is beyond me.

Dalot offers a lot more going forward. His pass to Rashford for Ronaldo's goal was something AWB could only dream of doing. He was solid enough against Smith-Rowe but thought Martinelli gave him a bit of bother when he was switched over in the 2nd half.

[Louther]

De Gea completely at fault for the goal lying down on his line with feck all wrong with him and game going ahead. Joke that Bailly was dropped, I'd have him way ahead of Slab and Lindelof atm.

Ronaldo the best to ever do it.

De Gea was comical. Turned his back to plan. Keane would have been thrilled with him.

[NAG1]

If we are talking shocking performance effort level look no further than Marcus.

Body language shocking, you would have thought with the new manager in the stand he would have been working his socks off but seemed to go the other way.

Good fighting performance if lacking still in direction and quality. Hopefully Ralph can get a system of play to allow them to go on a bit of a run.

[Maroon Manc]

A good 10 days for United, we'd have all been delighted with 4 points from those 2 league games and a win in Spain from those 3 games.

Performance wise United were poor in those 3 games, a decent 15 minutes yesterday and a good 25 minutes in Spain over those 3 games.

United have quality and lots of it in the final 3rd and probably more in depth than any other team in the league, good to hear Rangnick say he wants United to spend less time in their own half. He clearly doesn't have time to change much for Sunday but given United have already qualified in top spot he can rest his first 11 for Wednesdays game. Fred involved in everything good and bad yesterday, but he has too play given there's very little alternative. United simply have to bring a midfielder in this January.

Dalot deserves a run in the side given Wan Bisaka's shambolic performances, Telles did ok yesterday but still don't trust him. If United are going to play higher up the pitch then would rather Bailly play ahead of Lindelof whilst Varane is still out. Maguire needs to get his head right, he was excellent for his first 2 seasons at United contrary to some of the nonsense that is written about him.

Forgot about Rashford, appalling last night apart from 10 mins at start of 2nd half but he's been like that since returning from injury.

[tiempo]

If we are talking shocking performance effort level look no further than Marcus.

Body language shocking, you would have thought with the new manager in the stand he would have been working his socks off but seemed to go the other way.

Good fighting performance if lacking still in direction and quality. Hopefully Ralph can get a system of play to allow them to go on a bit of a run.

Like a fella who was dragged to 5 a side to make up the numbers and was glad when it was over, demeanor throughout and when he was taken off was appalling, Martial-esque

[Helix.]

If we are talking shocking performance effort level look no further than Marcus.

Body language shocking, you would have thought with the new manager in the stand he would have been working his socks off but seemed to go the other way.

Good fighting performance if lacking still in direction and quality. Hopefully Ralph can get a system of play to allow them to go on a bit of a run.

Like a fella who was dragged to 5 a side to make up the numbers and was glad when it was over, demeanor throughout and when he was taken off was appalling, Martial-esque

Would like to say more of Greenwood over coming weeks too. I hope the arrival of Ronaldo won't stall his development as he's a better finisher than Rashford. It's fine learning off the pitch but he needs more games. Agree with Dalot given more of  a run in team.

Good to see Bruno end his goal drought too. Hopefully might kickstart some bit of form in him. Still too leaky at the back. I hope Ragnick can get them a bit better on the ball technically as some of the passing was shocking last night. As said above they've been very poor and playing in dribs and drabs.

[David McKeown]

How did he give it though.  I mean apparently its all about when the whistle is blown and the ball was in midfield before he blew the whistle

You're hilarious David. You're 100% in the wrong and too pig headed to listen to reason!

When there is no foul, all that matters is the whistle.

Think about offside now with VAR. When a linesman thinks there's an offside but is not 100%, he lets play go on. If a goal is scored then they check the offside to decide whether to allow it or bring it back for the offside. Whereas if the whistle went before the ball crossed the line, they have to disallow the goal even if the player was onside.

Now use that giant brain you pretend to have to apply it to the first Arsenal goal, where the officials got it completely right.

Is there any need for the personal attack? If there is I'll bow out now from the Board.

My problem is how the Laws of the Game have been applied.

Law 5 sets out

Decisions will be made to the best of the referee's ability according to the laws of the Game and the 'spirit of the game' and will be based on the opinion of the referee.

Later in Law 5 we have. Duties of the referee.

Allow play to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is only slightly injured

Stop play if a player is seriously injured.

So once Atkinson sees De Gea he has a decision to make. Either allow play to continue because it's only a slight injury.

Or decide that a serious injury has occurred and stop play.

Atkinson at best appears to do neither (although to me for the reasons set out above it looks like he's decided to stop play)

The issue is then compounded because he uses VAR. The VAR protocol states.

The referee must always make a decision I.e. the referee is not permitted to give 'no decision' and then use VAR to make the decision.

So Atkinson can only use VAR after he's made a decision. If his decision is goal then why was that not communicated at all? In fact why did it appear for some time to those on the pitch that the play was stopped due to injury. If he had have awarded goal then VAR could have got involved but would have to say well we can't tell you if the game should have been stopped for injury. If that was his decision I have no problem with the goal but questions have to be asked why he didn't indicate goal immediately in such a scenario.

Likewise had he decided the game was to be stopped for injury VAR can't interfere as stopping the game for an injury is not a matter for VAR.

To me it appears he's either asked VAR to see what caused the injury and how serious it was (neither of which are matters for VAR or he's been talked out of stopping the game for an injury by the VAR official which is against both the spirit and rules of the game.

In summation I think it's very poor officiating by Atkinson who's performance over the rest of the night seemed to continue in a similar vein.

[Armagh18]

If we are talking shocking performance effort level look no further than Marcus.

Body language shocking, you would have thought with the new manager in the stand he would have been working his socks off but seemed to go the other way.

Good fighting performance if lacking still in direction and quality. Hopefully Ralph can get a system of play to allow them to go on a bit of a run.

Looking forward to him and a few others getting some kick up the hole from Rangnick!

[Milltown Row2]

A decision he made totally affected his game, as it would. Its very difficult, regardless of the training they get to not let that call screw up your game. That being said, he was that bad afterwards, I've seen worse, Clattenberg who was on the BT sport panel said he had to give the goal, as he couldn't see any way around his call at that moment.

It takes a big character to make a call, though in fairness to the Arsenal lads they seemed ok, so I wasn't sure he said to them its a goal or not. The way the Utd lads reacted will probably tell you that he maybe said no goal...

[johnnycool]

If we are talking shocking performance effort level look no further than Marcus.

Body language shocking, you would have thought with the new manager in the stand he would have been working his socks off but seemed to go the other way.

Good fighting performance if lacking still in direction and quality. Hopefully Ralph can get a system of play to allow them to go on a bit of a run.

Looking forward to him and a few others getting some kick up the hole from Rangnick!

You do expect more from Rashford but his ball to Ronaldo for the tap in was sublime. The talent is there, just needs more focus or something

[north_antrim_hound]

As a Liverpool fan I'm worried about this new interim manager. Looks like the circus is drawing to an end and prima Donna's will be traded for some work horses.

[RedHand88]

As a Liverpool fan I'm worried about this new interim manager. Looks like the circus is drawing to an end and prima Donna's will be traded for some work horses.

I'm worried too. Look at their fixture list 

[Cunny Funt]

As a Liverpool fan I'm worried about this new interim manager. Looks like the circus is drawing to an end and prima Donna's will be traded for some work horses.

I'm worried too. Look at their fixture list 

A run of fixtures that this group of inconsistent United players are well capable of dropping plenty of points in.