The Minister, the Commissioner and the whistleblower

[magpie seanie]

Taking back our oil and gas is a good help at paying bills and repudiating the bank debt would also help.

By taking back our oil and gas, do you mean just leaving it in the ground, or the Irish taxpayer fundings billions in expenditure to try and find and extract it?

Do you not think it's the kind of thing you could make a profit on? There seems to be a wee bit of demand for that sort of stuff out there and it's a finite resource. Suppy and demand I think they call it but I'm not great with all these economic terms unlike the geniuses that have run our country into the ground....

[magpie seanie]

"f**k off, we're not paying it because it is not our debt to pay" - that would be about the size of it.

Right. And that would work how?

Not sure I understand what you are getting at but it would probably play out with a loads of threats, angry words, bullying etc, mostly from our "partners" in our "Community of Equals". Bottom line though is if Germany wants to keep its precious currency so it can sell its goods with the benefit of artificially favourable exchange rate then they need to stump up for that privilege. Time to get real about this whole European "Emporer's New Clothes" project.

[AZOffaly]

What I'm getting at is that you can't just renege on debt like that, and expect no comeback or consequences, in terms of sanctions, refusal to trade etc etc. Maybe the EU membership or whatever. Now that might be all fine and dandy, and something we can live with, but you can't just say 'Repudiate the debt' without explaining exactly how that would play out, and the impact of doing so.

[magpie seanie]

I don't think they would kick us out and if they did we'd survive (though we'd possibly have to increase our fish intake).

What would happen is some sort of compromise like at least a halving of the bank portion of our national debt which I'd probably settle for even though it would still be wrong. We need to go down that road and fecking mean it. It's just wrong, wrong wrong. Think of the proper publice services we could have for that money. Why are we not out on the streets?

[magpie seanie]

Here we go again......

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0514/617155-construction/

[Hound]

Taking back our oil and gas is a good help at paying bills and repudiating the bank debt would also help.

By taking back our oil and gas, do you mean just leaving it in the ground, or the Irish taxpayer fundings billions in expenditure to try and find and extract it?

Do you not think it's the kind of thing you could make a profit on? There seems to be a wee bit of demand for that sort of stuff out there and it's a finite resource. Suppy and demand I think they call it but I'm not great with all these economic terms unlike the geniuses that have run our country into the ground....

Are you being serious?
Easy to make a profit from oil and gas exploration in Ireland?

You must tell all the big oil and gas companies who ignored the last round of licensing when Ireland was "giving away" the opportunity to explore our waters, because they all ignored it!

[muppet]

Taking back our oil and gas is a good help at paying bills and repudiating the bank debt would also help.

By taking back our oil and gas, do you mean just leaving it in the ground, or the Irish taxpayer fundings billions in expenditure to try and find and extract it?

Do you not think it's the kind of thing you could make a profit on? There seems to be a wee bit of demand for that sort of stuff out there and it's a finite resource. Suppy and demand I think they call it but I'm not great with all these economic terms unlike the geniuses that have run our country into the ground....

Are you being serious?
Easy to make a profit from oil and gas exploration in Ireland?

You must tell all the big oil and gas companies who ignored the last round of licensing when Ireland was "giving away" the opportunity to explore our waters, because they all ignored it!

Why are we wasting our time and money even looking for these oil and gas companies, who ignore us, as Hound put it?

The only gas we produce, or are about to produce, at the moment benefits me and almost everyone else in the country to the tune of precisely nothing. I will pay market rate for gas whether it comes from Russia or Rosport. Leave it in the ground until some competent descendants of ours come along. At least then we won't have squandered it to line the pockets of a treacherous few.

[magpie seanie]

Well said Muppet.

[Hound]

Why are we wasting our time and money even looking for these oil and gas companies, who ignore us, as Hound put it?

The only gas we produce, or are about to produce, at the moment benefits me and almost everyone else in the country to the tune of precisely nothing. I will pay market rate for gas whether it comes from Russia or Rosport. Leave it in the ground until some competent descendants of ours come along. At least then we won't have squandered it to line the pockets of a treacherous few.

I've no problem with the concept that leaving it in the ground might be the best option. No matter who takes it out it would never mean cheap oil/gas for the Irish consumer, we'd be paying market price. The hope would be that it would create additional revenues for the Irish exchequer.

Setting up an Ireland Inc oil company so the Irish exchequer could get 100% of the profits sounds good in an ideal world, but it would mean exposing the taxpayer to high risk exploration costs and enormous set up costs. In my view its better to let the experts take the risks, and we take 25% share of the profits in the form of corporation tax (or up to 40% where significant profits arise). But if the oil companies lose hundreds of millions, there is no cost to the exchequer.

The reason to encourage companies to explore in Irish waters and to encourage them to risk their tens/hundreds of millions in the hope they will get profits out at a relatively low tax rate of 25% is to create a viable petroleum industry in Ireland. To have a town in Mayo/Sligo/Donegal become the next Stavanger or Aberdeen, creating more employment, well paid jobs and all the fringe benefits for the community/local industry that go along with that.

[magpie seanie]

To me it's a staring competition (and our governments have repeatedly blinked very early). Oil companies know there is shed loads of cash to be made but will fight for the best terms to maximise their profits. I fully believe the oil companies know exactly what is out there and where and if we hold firm eventually they'll come crawling to us. I think in our overeagerness for "the next Stavanger/Aberdeen" we tend to sell ourselves short. Like our "best boy in class" approach to the financial crisis.

We really need to stop being everyones doormat - the cute cuddly inoffensive Paddy's, sure aren't they great. Always do what they're told.

[Hound]

To me it's a staring competition (and our governments have repeatedly blinked very early). Oil companies know there is shed loads of cash to be made but will fight for the best terms to maximise their profits. I fully believe the oil companies know exactly what is out there and where and if we hold firm eventually they'll come crawling to us. I think in our overeagerness for "the next Stavanger/Aberdeen" we tend to sell ourselves short. Like our "best boy in class" approach to the financial crisis.

We really need to stop being everyones doormat - the cute cuddly inoffensive Paddy's, sure aren't they great. Always do what they're told.

There's something like a 10% strikerate for exploration around Ireland. So the 90% of the time they drill and find nothing viable, they've deliberately spent 10s of millions to miss to pull the wool over our eyes so they get a better deal. And when they do get the better deal, then they'll go to the spots where they know the oil/gas actually is and fleece us poor paddys.

That's an interesting scenario.

But its a load of nonsense!

[magpie seanie]

To me it's a staring competition (and our governments have repeatedly blinked very early). Oil companies know there is shed loads of cash to be made but will fight for the best terms to maximise their profits. I fully believe the oil companies know exactly what is out there and where and if we hold firm eventually they'll come crawling to us. I think in our overeagerness for "the next Stavanger/Aberdeen" we tend to sell ourselves short. Like our "best boy in class" approach to the financial crisis.

We really need to stop being everyones doormat - the cute cuddly inoffensive Paddy's, sure aren't they great. Always do what they're told.

There's something like a 10% strikerate for exploration around Ireland. So the 90% of the time they drill and find nothing viable, they've deliberately spent 10s of millions to miss to pull the wool over our eyes so they get a better deal. And when they do get the better deal, then they'll go to the spots where they know the oil/gas actually is and fleece us poor paddys.

That's an interesting scenario.

But its a load of nonsense!

I'm glad you're so sure. I'm just a little funny when it comes to trusting the bona fides of oil companies. Must have watched too much Dallas as a kid.

[armaghniac]

Oil companies know there is shed loads of cash to be made but will fight for the best terms to maximise their profits.

This is half right, of course anybody will try and get the best terms. But there is no evidence that there is "shed loads" of cash to be made in Irish waters, as Hound says there have been lots of false leads and dud wells; there are easier places to find oil and gas. If new evidence to suggest otherwise then we can change the terms of exploration in the future.

[magpie seanie]

Oil companies know there is shed loads of cash to be made but will fight for the best terms to maximise their profits.

This is half right, of course anybody will try and get the best terms. But there is no evidence that there is "shed loads" of cash to be made in Irish waters, as Hound says there have been lots of false leads and dud wells; there are easier places to find oil and gas. If new evidence to suggest otherwise then we can change the terms of exploration in the future.

I think in 20-30 years time it will be a different story and we need to err on the side of caution rather than risk frittering it away again. What have we got to lose?

[guy crouchback]

i suppose we have nothing to lose by leaving it, although having oil or gas coming on shore gives up a certain amount of  energy security in these troubles times (Ukraine).

since i was a kid i have been hearing about all the oil and gas that we might have off shore in Irish waters and how if we could exploit it we would all be rich rich rich. then every now and again a company would announce that following some survey they have discovered another potential field or whatever.

30 years i have been listening to this and to date not a single drop of oil or gas has arrived from these massive reserves.  apparently cashing this winning lottery ticket was not as easy as was being suggested 30years ago.