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Messages - Hawkeye9212

#1
Hurling has always been a minority sport largely confined to Leinster and Munster. The sport needs a tiered championship. We might as well just keep the Provincials in football and sort out the funding issues.
#2
Quote from: BennyCake on July 26, 2019, 07:40:07 PM
Quote from: Hawkeye9212 on July 26, 2019, 07:05:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 26, 2019, 06:47:24 PM

Hmmm...

They won in 2010.

Sligo and Limerick both reached their provincial finals in 2010.

Did they? Did they really?  ;)

Unfortunately.
#3
It's two groups of 4 or a straight knockout.
#4
12 Provincial champions.

Kerry
Kildare
Westmeath
Mayo
Laois
Meath
Tyrone
Roscommon
Cork
Dublin
Armagh
Galway
Sligo
#5
Quote from: BennyCake on July 26, 2019, 06:47:24 PM

Hmmm...

They won in 2010.

Sligo and Limerick both reached their provincial finals in 2010.
#6
10 counties have won a Provincial championship.

Kerry
Dublin
Donegal
Mayo
Meath
Tyrone
Roscommon
Cork
Monaghan
Galway
#7
Quote from: Rossfan on July 26, 2019, 05:52:17 PM
Kerry would still have a cakewalk to the All Ireland series.

And Dublin but a lot of people want to retain the provincial structure. Either way, Dublin and Kerry will have an easy route to the All-Ireland series.
#8
Quote from: APM on July 26, 2019, 05:33:10 PM
Yes, I agree,
Retaining London and disposing of Donegal seems harsh.
Maybe remove London from the South,
Take Clare from the West and put them into the South
Take Donegal back from Oblivion and put them into the West. 

There you have it.  But it's all very academic because it's never going to happen.

Agreed. Putting Clare into the South makes sense.
#9
That was a mistake. I've fixed it.
#10
How would you reform the championship without creating a second tier?

A proposal which retains regional divisions.

Divide the 32 teams into 4 conferences: North, East, West, and South.

The 4 conference champions advance to the All-Ireland knockout stages.

The conferences can have a round-robin group stage followed by a knockout stage. Alternatively, they could be straight knockout from the start. The second option allows for a backdoor into the All-Ireland.

I know that it will hard for some teams to accept being moved out of their province but I've tried to retain the regional rivalries as much as I possibly could.

Northern Conference

Cavan, Derry, Antrim, Down, Fermanagh, Armagh, Monaghan, and Tyrone.

Eastern Conference

Dublin, Louth, Meath, Westmeath, Offaly, Kildare, Wicklow, and Laois.

Southern Conference

Kerry, Limerick, Cork, Tipperary, Carlow, Wexford, Waterford, and London.

Western Conference

Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Longford, Donegal, Leitrim, Sligo, and Clare.

Fixed. Donegal are in the West.






#11
There is a future for a lot of small rural clubs but not all. A lot of clubs within commuting distance of a city or large town will survive. I don't see an issue with amalgamation in sparsely populated areas. The aim is to preserve Gaelic games in these areas.
#12
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on July 01, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
There is an obvious need for Tiers in the hurling championship – top tier hurling is limited to a geographical area – Munster, South Leinster and outposts in the west (Galway) and in the north (Antrim).  Club and county teams outside the hurling strongholds can never attain the skills to match those of teams within the hurling strongholds. This argument does NOT hold for Gaelic Football.

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that current Division 4 teams such as Antrim and Wicklow could compete at the top level of intercounty football. It would obviously take some time and need a lot of things to fall into place – progress at underage, good management structure, player commitment etc. Both counties have produced All-Ireland Club Champions – St Galls and Baltinglass.

In my opinion the plan to introduce a 2nd Tier in the All-Ireland Football Championship is a big mistake and a backward step. Anybody that thinks that it won't mirror the failure of the All-Ireland B Football Championship (1990s) and The Tommy Murphy Cup (2000s) is deluding themselves – try looking up the Roll of Honour for these competitions. With the best will in the world you will never get 100% commitment for a 2nd Tier All-Ireland Football Championship – a significant element of players and supporters simply do not have the appetite for it.

What we have now and what can be improved upon is a National Football League with 4 Divisions/Tiers based on merit. Play the NFL in Spring & early Summer feeding into "Super 8s". Let the All-Ireland Championship revert to straight knockout like before the backdoor was introduced.
It was interesting that on tonight's Sunday Game there was no analysis on one of the qualifier matches – that between Division 3 teams Laois and Offaly.

Football does need tiers. The Division 4 teams could compete at the top level of inter county football but it is highly unlikely. Both Sligo and Wicklow are competing at a higher level in hurling. Their hurlers have tasted success. The same cannot be said for their footballers. Baltinglass won the All-Ireland SCFC in 1990. One successful club won't result in Wicklow being able to compete at the top level of inter county football. Slaughtneil have proven that clubs from outside the hurling strongholds can compete at the top level. They just need to be supported. Unfortunately, hurlers the football strongholds are too often disregarded by the county boards. The same thing happens to footballers in the hurling strongholds.
#13
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2019, 09:57:33 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 30, 2019, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2019, 03:27:26 PM
The 2 sides promoted from D3 will be considered D2 then and will be Tier 1.

That's not what it says in the rte article

QuoteUnder the new proposals, Division 3 finalists Westmeath and Laois would have played in a Tier 2 championship rather than the All-Ireland qualifiers this summer
When it was 1st before CC it was said that promoted teams from D3 would be classed as D2 /Tiet 1.
Either that's been changed or RTE have got it wrong.
Sure it wont be happening anyway as Hardstation and Bennycake will stop it.

https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-ard-chomhairle-puts-forward-two-separate-tier-2-all-ireland-sfc-proposals/

QuoteA key difference is that in the event that a Division 3 or 4 team do reach a Provincial Final, to make up 16 teams in Tier 2 their place in Tier 2 would be taken by the lowest ranked Division 2 team from that year's Allianz league.

RTÉ are right.
#14
Quote from: lenny on June 30, 2019, 08:47:36 PM
Quote from: Hawkeye9212 on June 30, 2019, 08:42:05 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 30, 2019, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2019, 03:27:26 PM
The 2 sides promoted from D3 will be considered D2 then and will be Tier 1.

That's not what it says in the rte article

QuoteUnder the new proposals, Division 3 finalists Westmeath and Laois would have played in a Tier 2 championship rather than the All-Ireland qualifiers this summer

Why would any team in Division 3 vote for these proposals?

They will be in a competition they have a chance of winning.
They will avoid the embarrassment of being destroyed by Dublin/Kerry/Mayo/Donegal.
Teams can develop and bring through young players by playing at their own level.
Why would they vote against the proposals?

1) The Division 4 teams won't be in a competition which they have a chance of winning.

2) The Division 3/4 teams will not avoid the embarrassment of being destroyed. Leitrim/Sligo will still play against Galway and Mayo in Connacht.

3) Let's use a format which has been tried and tested in the other Gaelic games.
#15
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 30, 2019, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2019, 03:27:26 PM
The 2 sides promoted from D3 will be considered D2 then and will be Tier 1.

That's not what it says in the rte article

QuoteUnder the new proposals, Division 3 finalists Westmeath and Laois would have played in a Tier 2 championship rather than the All-Ireland qualifiers this summer

Why would any team in Division 3 vote for these proposals?