the future of the Intercounty game

[BennyHarp]

Whenever a tiered system is mentioned people act like you are removing teams completely from ever competing at a higher level. Just like the systems in most counties in the GAA if a team / county shows progress they can be in the top tier within 2 years if they are in the lowest division to start with (based on a 3 tier system). Then they can have a whole year "in the sun". Over the years counties will get promoted and relegated and there will be plenty of success stories and romance as unlikely teams make progress and current "big" counties slip down divisions. Is there any real urgency in the like of Meath, Derry or even Armagh at the minute - slipping to a division 3 championship would soon make them get their finger out.

[Syferus]

No one really wants a tiered championship. Nevermind that the GAA that protects and wildly funds its cash cow in Dublin is never going to willingly implode its only other big money maker, the provincial championships. Supporters have no interest in the ties that those systems would throw up.

Why won't the pushers get that and start talking about proposals grounded in reality, like sorting out the funding and coaching imbalances and forcing counties to adhere to a financial cap for IC preparation? Lord only knows.

[Captain Obvious]

As was said before the NFL should be made more important and it seems the only way to do that is to connect it up with the championship. Most team sports have a league and cup competitions. The All Ireland football championship is a cup competition and one of the best parts of any cup competition is the underdog story and upsets along the way regardless who wins it.

[Zulu]

What are you on about? Mayo v Dublin, Kerry v Tyrone, Roscommon v Donegal, Meath v Cavan wouldn't bring crowds? Like all other sports, supporters will follow a successful team and bigger numbers will go to games that are important or where the game is likely to be competitive.

The idea we will only get big crowds for provincial championships is nonsense. We can get crowds for many games if they are of value and between teams of similar ability. Once again, we know Dublin, Kerry and Mayo are the best teams in their province in 2018 and Tyrone are most likely the best in Ulster. Moreover, we know that if one or all of them don't win their province in 2018 they will likely get further than the team that does win it. Winning a provincial title is only great for a team that hasn't won one in a while and even then it was of little consolation to Galway when they lost to Tipp.

[Esmarelda]

Turn the provincials into a league type structure. Play everyone in your group once.
Two groups in both Ulster and Leinster with the two winners playing in the final.
One group in Connacht and Munster with the top two playing the final (problem for New York admittedly).
Winner of one province plays losing finalist in another province in AI Quarter Finals. Knockout from there on.
Pros - Provincials kept, more games for everyone, hysteria over Super 8s is gone.
Cons - Risk of hammerings still there, risk of dead rubber games.

Keep the leagues as they are but split the divisions of eight in half again so each team has three games.

So you have January competitions. Then a break for club. Intercounty leagues as above. Another break for club games. Then Provincials/AI series.

[mrhardyannual]

So do you want an end to senior, Inter and Junior at club level?

No I don't. As I pointed out earlier history and tradition play their part in all competitions. Senior and Junior championships at club level have existed since the dawn of the Association. Intermediate was a logical addition when numbers became unwieldy. No county was ever graded Junior. They fielded Senior and Junior and (later) teams.  Our leagues are graded and progressive. They weren't always so. In the mid 90s there were four equal divisions in the league for one year. Teams want a league and a championship.

[Rossfan]

Roscommon among others were graded Junior in the 1930s.
Our second AI was the Junior in 1940 which was our first team.
We then went up to Senior with some success.

[mrhardyannual]

Roscommon among others were graded Junior in the 1930s.
Our second AI was the Junior in 1940 which was our first team.
We then went up to Senior with some success.

You are now clutching at straws. Roscommon applied to be graded at Junior level at the 1938 Connacht Convention, following the move made by Leitrim the previous year. This is/was a move open to any team (most recently a right exercised by Kilkenny). Roscommon played Junior in 1938, '39 (losing the home final to Dublin) and '40 when they won the competition. The following year Ros lost by single point to Galway in the Connacht Final (a Galway team that lost three All Ireland Senior Finals). It is arguable that Roscommon would have held their own in the Senior Championships of '39 & 40 against a declining and internally divided Mayo and an emerging Galway.

At any rate a team can still apply to be regraded to Junior but despite their chances of winning being improved there is no rush to do so. At club level a club can apply to be regraded downwards at any time. That rarely happens either. My own club haven't won a senior club title in almost 50 years. In that time we played Intermediate for two years when Senior Championship status depended on Senior League status. In all that time nobody in the club would dare suggest dropping to Intermediate even if it meant winning. Our local Secondary School won a Hogan Cup in 1977 and an All-Ireland B title in 1996 (Teams knocked out in early round of A were eligible to play B). Anybody in any of the 5 or 6 clubs that contributed to the 1977 team can name that team. Only the families of the 1996 team remember who was on that team.

There is no desire to play in secondary competitions. Players are ambitious. If the players in the counties due to play in the new second tier hurling championship (Joe McDonagh Cup) were given the option of playing in that competition or the Senior Hurling Championship they would vote en-bloc for the upper grade.

Face facts. Secondary competitions are a Ponzi Scheme sold to the gullible. They allow the "Elite" to play more "high-profile" games, hog publicity and sponsors. They undermine the great value of representing your school/club/county even against outrageous odds. It's a continuation of the "everyone gets a medal" Irish dancing mentality that has a place up to U-14 grade.

[LooseCannon]

Sure in the early noughties, we (Offaly) had both a senior and junior team, and our junior team used to hammer the seniors. Only in Offaly.
The junior team hardly trained collectively, and if I recall correctly, won a Leinster in '01.
Oh well.

[Rossfan]

Offaly seems like a fun place.
MyHardy seems like the kind of chap I wouldn't like to have a pint with.

[AZOffaly]

Sure in the early noughties, we (Offaly) had both a senior and junior team, and our junior team used to hammer the seniors. Only in Offaly.
The junior team hardly trained collectively, and if I recall correctly, won a Leinster in '01.
Oh well.

I think it was 98. They lost the All Ireland final to Tipp I think?

[lenny]

Roscommon among others were graded Junior in the 1930s.
Our second AI was the Junior in 1940 which was our first team.
We then went up to Senior with some success.

You are now clutching at straws. Roscommon applied to be graded at Junior level at the 1938 Connacht Convention, following the move made by Leitrim the previous year. This is/was a move open to any team (most recently a right exercised by Kilkenny). Roscommon played Junior in 1938, '39 (losing the home final to Dublin) and '40 when they won the competition. The following year Ros lost by single point to Galway in the Connacht Final (a Galway team that lost three All Ireland Senior Finals). It is arguable that Roscommon would have held their own in the Senior Championships of '39 & 40 against a declining and internally divided Mayo and an emerging Galway.

At any rate a team can still apply to be regraded to Junior but despite their chances of winning being improved there is no rush to do so. At club level a club can apply to be regraded downwards at any time. That rarely happens either. My own club haven't won a senior club title in almost 50 years. In that time we played Intermediate for two years when Senior Championship status depended on Senior League status. In all that time nobody in the club would dare suggest dropping to Intermediate even if it meant winning. Our local Secondary School won a Hogan Cup in 1977 and an All-Ireland B title in 1996 (Teams knocked out in early round of A were eligible to play B). Anybody in any of the 5 or 6 clubs that contributed to the 1977 team can name that team. Only the families of the 1996 team remember who was on that team.

There is no desire to play in secondary competitions. Players are ambitious. If the players in the counties due to play in the new second tier hurling championship (Joe McDonagh Cup) were given the option of playing in that competition or the Senior Hurling Championship they would vote en-bloc for the upper grade.

Face facts. Secondary competitions are a Ponzi Scheme sold to the gullible. They allow the "Elite" to play more "high-profile" games, hog publicity and sponsors. They undermine the great value of representing your school/club/county even against outrageous odds. It's a continuation of the "everyone gets a medal" Irish dancing mentality that has a place up to U-14 grade.

Have secondary club  competitions been sold to the gullible? I haven't seen or heard any complaints, in fact intermediate and junior club competitions seem to becoming more high profile all the time. The media coverage given to Moy in the build up and after winning the ulster club intermediate was similar to the coverage given to slaughtneil who won the senior. People like you are creating scare stories when there is no reason county intermediate and junior can't work the same successful way they work at club level. As a Derry supporter I would love to see Derry playing in an intermediate competition against strong counties like Armagh and Meath. There we would have a realistic chance of progress and success.

[LooseCannon]

Sure in the early noughties, we (Offaly) had both a senior and junior team, and our junior team used to hammer the seniors. Only in Offaly.
The junior team hardly trained collectively, and if I recall correctly, won a Leinster in '01.
Oh well.

I think it was 98. They lost the All Ireland final to Tipp I think?

Yeah won one in '98 alright.
'01 was the most recent Leinster junior win.
Ollie Daly was over the team I think.

I have a team photo which I got from @gaanostalgia on twitter. I don't know how to upload an image on this, so here's the link: https://twitter.com/gaanostalgia/status/581457691941441537
Wasn't a bad team.

[Rossfan]

Has anyone ever seen a sad face in the team photos after winning an Inter or Junior Final?
Or a Ring, Rackard etc?
Jasus the Ros team photo with the Nicky in 2015 would have made a great ad for toothpaste.
On a point of order Soccer Cup competitions are good fun lotteries, their Leagues are the serious business and decide the Champions.
Our Leagues are just pre season tournaments - the Summer Provincials and Qualifiers and AI series are to find the CHAMPIONS.

[BennyHarp]

Roscommon among others were graded Junior in the 1930s.
Our second AI was the Junior in 1940 which was our first team.
We then went up to Senior with some success.

You are now clutching at straws. Roscommon applied to be graded at Junior level at the 1938 Connacht Convention, following the move made by Leitrim the previous year. This is/was a move open to any team (most recently a right exercised by Kilkenny). Roscommon played Junior in 1938, '39 (losing the home final to Dublin) and '40 when they won the competition. The following year Ros lost by single point to Galway in the Connacht Final (a Galway team that lost three All Ireland Senior Finals). It is arguable that Roscommon would have held their own in the Senior Championships of '39 & 40 against a declining and internally divided Mayo and an emerging Galway.

At any rate a team can still apply to be regraded to Junior but despite their chances of winning being improved there is no rush to do so. At club level a club can apply to be regraded downwards at any time. That rarely happens either. My own club haven't won a senior club title in almost 50 years. In that time we played Intermediate for two years when Senior Championship status depended on Senior League status. In all that time nobody in the club would dare suggest dropping to Intermediate even if it meant winning. Our local Secondary School won a Hogan Cup in 1977 and an All-Ireland B title in 1996 (Teams knocked out in early round of A were eligible to play B). Anybody in any of the 5 or 6 clubs that contributed to the 1977 team can name that team. Only the families of the 1996 team remember who was on that team.

There is no desire to play in secondary competitions. Players are ambitious. If the players in the counties due to play in the new second tier hurling championship (Joe McDonagh Cup) were given the option of playing in that competition or the Senior Hurling Championship they would vote en-bloc for the upper grade.

Face facts. Secondary competitions are a Ponzi Scheme sold to the gullible. They allow the "Elite" to play more "high-profile" games, hog publicity and sponsors. They undermine the great value of representing your school/club/county even against outrageous odds. It's a continuation of the "everyone gets a medal" Irish dancing mentality that has a place up to U-14 grade.

But in a 3 tier championship every team is 2 seasons max away from senior football. This nonsense about selling to the gullible is paranoia at its best. All teams will have a pathway to senior football if they can progress and improve. For a team like Carlow, steady progress through the divisions would be a much better way to progress than putting in a decent performance one week then get walloped by the Dubs the next and they are gone. Playing competitive football into August can do no harm.

Go to your own county board and tell them that you want to implement the current inter county structure to the club championship. They laugh you out of the room.