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Messages - Eamonnca1

#4291
"In the absence of such evidence, black people have to make the case for not being killed — no criminal record, no questionable acquaintances, no drugs or alcohol in your lifeless body, A-grade students and devoted fathers. If you want the nation to be outraged at your murder, be sure to have led an impeccable life. Nothing less will do."

Full article:

QuoteOnly justice and equality will fix America's race problem

BY GARY YOUNGE

On November 26, 2007, Brandon Moore, an unarmed 16-year-old, was shot in the back while running away from a security guard in Detroit. The guard made it look like sport. "[He] put one arm on top of the other arm and started aiming at us," Brandon's brother John Henry, who was with him at the time, told me. "Brandon wasn't involved in anything. He was the last one to take off running, I guess." The shooter was an off-duty policeman with a history of brutality. Sacked from the force after he was involved in a fatal hit-and-run accident while drunk-driving, he was reinstated a few years later on appeal. He went on to shoot dead an armed man in a neighbourhood dispute, and shot and injured his wife in a domestic fracas.

The story got a paragraph in Detroit's two daily newspapers. Neither even bothered to print Brandon Moore's name. The policeman was reassigned to a traffic unit until he was cleared by an "investigation". The cold-blooded killing of Walter Scott, who was shot eight times in the back as he ran away from a policeman in North Charleston, South Carolina, is not news in the conventional sense. Such shootings are neither rare nor, to those who have been paying attention, surprising. Sadly, they are all too common. It is news because, thanks to the video footage, we have incontrovertible evidence at a moment when public consciousness has been heightened and focused on this very issue. While in this case the policeman involved has been fired and charged, such a degree of proof is no guarantee of justice. There was video evidence of police choking Eric Garner to death in Staten Island while he protested "I can't breathe", and his killers were acquitted; there was video of evidence of Rodney King's beating in Los Angeles, and his assailants walked free. But in an era of 24-hour news and social media, video guarantees attention.

Black people have been dying for this kind of attention for years. Michael Brown died for it; Kajieme Powell died for it; Tamir Rice died for it ; Justus Howell died for it. The roll call could go on — and until something fundamental changes, not just with American policing but in the American psyche, it will get longer. The fact that Scott was killed on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination makes stark the distinction between the reality of the post-civil rights era and pretensions to a post-racial era. The slogan of the day, born from a Twitter hashtag, is Blacklivesmatter. That says a lot. You wouldn't have a hashtag that said #blackmencanplaybasketball or #blackmusicmatters, because only the most deluded would ever deny that. But the reason #blacklivesmatter has resonated is because it succinctly summarises the current contradictions. We can celebrate a black president, black professors, black astrophysicists and black tennis players all we want. But the issue of the sanctity of black life has still not been settled .

Brutality of the police

The slogan of the day, born from a Twitter hashtag, is Blacklivesmatter. That says a lot. And so Scott's murder stands not simply as an outrageous and horrific incident in its own right but as an emblem for all the Brandon Moores who have gone down in a hail of bullets to deafening silence; a proxy for a reign of racial terror that has not been removed since the civil rights era but merely refined; a harsh illustration of a system that both systemically criminalises working-class black communities and, on occasion, cavalierly condemns those who live in them to summary execution. It lends a name and a moving image to those who have perished unnamed and unseen, and whose deaths could not move the nation's conscience.

"I have witnessed and endured the brutality of the police many more times than once — but, of course, I cannot prove it," wrote James Baldwin in 1966, in A Report from Occupied Territory . "I cannot prove it because the Police Department investigates itself, quite as though it were answerable only to itself. But it cannot be allowed to be answerable only to itself. It must be made to answer to the community which pays it, and which it is legally sworn to protect, and if African Americans are not a part of the American community, then all of the American professions are a fraud." The fact that the country is at least recognising this issue is heartening. But what it took to get it there is sickening. For this is the standard of proof necessary to force a reckoning with contemporary racism.

This is what it takes to thwart a conversation about the ostensible shortcomings in black culture, from parenting to rap music, which — some claim — make such policing inevitable and instead concentrate on the pathology of state violence. If all young black men bought a belt and pulled their trousers up tomorrow, they still wouldn't be able to outrun a trigger-happy cop's bullet. The bar is so high, and the capacity for empathy so low, that apparently no amount of statistics and personal testimony can convince a critical mass of white Americans that the problem is not African-Americans claiming victim hood but their being victimised.

In the absence of such evidence, black people have to make the case for not being killed — no criminal record, no questionable acquaintances, no drugs or alcohol in your lifeless body, A-grade students and devoted fathers. If you want the nation to be outraged at your murder, be sure to have led an impeccable life. Nothing less will do. In The Audacity of Hope, US President Barack Obama recalls sitting in the Illinois senate with a white legislator watching a black colleague (whom he refers to as John Doe) explain why eliminating a certain programme was racist. "You know what the problem is with John," the white senator asked him. "Whenever I hear him, he makes me feel more white." "[His] comment was instructive," Obama reflected. "Rightly or wrongly, white guilt has largely exhausted itself in America."

Guilt, of any racial variety, never achieved much anyhow (even if it did, there are therapists for that). It won't close the pay gap, the unemployment gap, the wealth gap or the discrepancy between black and white incarceration. It won't bring back Walter Scott, Trayvon Martin or Brandon Moore. It's not guilt that people are demanding but justice and equality. Only then will a tragic incident such as this be news for the right reason — because it is both rare and unexpected, not because someone was in the right place at the right time with a Samsung and a conscience.

— Guardian News & Media Ltd
#4292
Quote from: topcuppla on May 02, 2015, 02:35:44 PM
Sidney what you do behind close doors with your partner is your own business, now sure how it is relevant to the debate.

I think you've just demolished the No case.
#4293
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 11:35:42 PM
What should we do Eamonn, abolish the Police force and let everyone police themselves?

Of course. The only alternative to bloodthirsty paramilitary cops shooting all around them is to abolish the police and let us live in a Mad Max environment. As is the case in the black-and-white binary world of the conservative mind, it has to be all or nothing. There's no happy medium. There's no such thing as police being professional or obeying the law while upholding it.
#4294
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.
#4295
Here's a sample of life in what conservatives call "post racial America":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg
#4296
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.

So when do I get my apology?  I see you decided to change tack and attack whitey instead to deflect the fact that YOU'RE WRONG

see we can all do large font....

What apology?
#4297
Okay, porcine apologists. Let's hear you justify this. Girl gets drunk, gets abusive, how do you restrain her? Cuff her? Or slam her to the ground face first and break several bones in her face?

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor

If the Guards acted like these jack-booted thugs you'd be up in arms.
#4298
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"
#4299
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

And what threat, prey tell, did Mr Grey present when cuffed and lying on the floor in the back of that van?
#4300
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:06:42 PM

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

So on what grounds was he arrested then? On what charge, exactly? Come on, Matlock. Tell us!
#4301
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.
#4302
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

Doing back-breaking to pick food out of the fields to feed your ungrateful face isn't contributing to society?

Changing the sheets on your hotel room bed so you can stay overnight at bargain prices isn't making it a better place?

Working more hours than there are daylight isn't sacrificing for their families?
#4303
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:46:00 PM

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.

Oh dear. You really only remember one word out of the whole sentence? Here are your words again:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Do you see it yet? No? Let's try again...

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Got it yet? How are you getting on? No? Still struggling? Allow me:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."
#4304
Quote from: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 08:41:05 PM
Define natural?
Is it true that in nature that animals and plants sole purpose is to create more?
In order to do that there needs to be a male and a female and according to the discovery channel and My Left Foot, do it for half an hour you get a baby, do it for an hour you get twins. Therefore anything contrary to that purpose would be unnatural? The species would not survive. Reproduction happens between a male and a female.  So in line with that then homosexuality is not natural. Or where do we stand on that?

I hope we're not going to get into an endless tennis match of answering every question with a question. The question was about how some people keep telling me that homosexuality is wrong because it's unnatural. Do you disagree with that argument or do you agree with it?
#4305
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

Must be a pain in the neck to have such a short memory. I've highlighted your own racist words in your own post above.