The Official Thread of Chelsea FC

[deiseach]

Indeed, long may it continue.  Now about Luis Garcia's "ghost goal"...

Twas never a goal. Which made it all the sweeter!

[deiseach]

Question for Chelsea fans. Was the reception Rafael Benitez got yesterday primarily a function of the treatment of Roberto Di Matteo or an expression of an overarching contempt for Rafa?

[johnneycool]

Question for Chelsea fans. Was the reception Rafael Benitez got yesterday primarily a function of the treatment of Roberto Di Matteo or an expression of an overarching contempt for Rafa?

You'd have thought the Chelsea fans would be marching on the bridge looking for the head of the man who sacked their beloved 'Robbie DM' and replaced him with the odious Rafa Liverpool Benitez?

No wait, you don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

Chelsea fans should suck it up as they're only part of the play thing that belongs to the Russian fella with all the gas.

[AQMP]

Question for Chelsea fans. Was the reception Rafael Benitez got yesterday primarily a function of the treatment of Roberto Di Matteo or an expression of an overarching contempt for Rafa?

A bit of both deiseach, but I'd go 25% sympathy for RDM, 50% contempt for Benitez and 25% was "Hang on here a minute, Roman".  I take a clear stance on any supporters of any club booing their own players/manager.  These people pay good hard earned money to go to these matches and they're perfectly entitled to boo if they want.  I don't buy all this "respect" bollocks.

In a strange way I was heartened by the hostiity toward Benitez, not for the reason you might think.  It felt like the fans were finally saying to Abramovich "stop treating this club like a toy" and they were making their voice heard.  For once (after ample opportunities to do so) Chelsea fans were saying "No, this can't go on".  It felt to me that Benitez's appointment was the straw that broke the camel's back.  O'Neill said a few posts back that Chelsea is not the club supporters grew up with and I'd agree with that (with the caveat "what club is?).  The perception of Chelsea amongst 20-25 year olds has to have been posioned by some of the events of the past 10 years.

The problem is that Abramovich owns 100% of the club.  His policy is one of short termism and I don't expect that to change (a half a dozen more 0-0 draws and Benitez will be gone by the end of January!), however this is not going to attract a Guardiola.  I think the vast majority of fans would accept a season or maybe two of finishing 7th or 8th if that's what is needed to build a new long term sustainable team.  IMHO that is what is needed at Chelsea but it's unlikely to happen.

[deiseach]

Thanks for the considered response, AQMP. I'm surprised at the level of hostility towards Benitez as a person. If anything it's us Liverpool fans who should be offended by his dismissal of his previous comments as being what was expedient at the time! Still, I completely agree that fans paying a lot of their hard-earned on a team are entitled to be as vocally venomous as they like. I don't do it myself but that's because I don't get any satisfaction from it. If it makes you feel better, boo all you like.

[ONeill]

I'm not going to defend Chelsea either as a club or about previous incidents, but in this case they had no choice but to report Clattenburg. As Norf Tyrone has pointed out, they HAVE to report these incidents. Let's imagine you were racially abused. Would you have any faith in a system which begins with having a chat behind closed doors, just to see if you are on the level? I'm reminded of the scene in Cracker where Penhaligon is told by DCI Wise after she accuses Beck of raping her to cut out the hairy-arsed lesbian stuff and come and have a drink with her mates. And no, I'm not comparing racial abuse to rape, but there has to be a process for dealing with this kind of thing and it shouldn't begin with one of the interested parties investigating itself.

When it comes to a potentially career-ending allegation (true or not), surely the facts need to be established and verified internally before reporting the incident.

[deiseach]

When it comes to a potentially career-ending allegation (true or not), surely the facts need to be established and verified internally before reporting the incident.

Sounds like the excuse used by every cover-up in history. Can you imagine the stink if Chelsea conducted an internal investigation and found there was nothing to support the allegations, then had a falling-out with Mikel down the line even over something as trivial as a contract dispute and Mikel went public saying he wasn't happy with the 'internal investigation'? Chelsea did the right thing in this case.

[AQMP]

I'm not going to defend Chelsea either as a club or about previous incidents, but in this case they had no choice but to report Clattenburg. As Norf Tyrone has pointed out, they HAVE to report these incidents. Let's imagine you were racially abused. Would you have any faith in a system which begins with having a chat behind closed doors, just to see if you are on the level? I'm reminded of the scene in Cracker where Penhaligon is told by DCI Wise after she accuses Beck of raping her to cut out the hairy-arsed lesbian stuff and come and have a drink with her mates. And no, I'm not comparing racial abuse to rape, but there has to be a process for dealing with this kind of thing and it shouldn't begin with one of the interested parties investigating itself.

When it comes to a potentially career-ending allegation (true or not), surely the facts need to be established and verified internally before reporting the incident.

You might have a point but that would need to be written into the FA rules and Equality Law.  Chelsea followed the rules, regulations and legislation to the letter and shouldn't be criticised for that.

The FA state: The FA encourages all players who believe they have been either subject, or witness to, discriminatory abuse to report the matter immediately to the match officials on the day.

Some tosser in PR trying to ingratiate him/herself to journos leaked the nature of the allegation(s).  Chelsea did carry out an internal investigation and decided to not make a formal complaint about Mata.

[Bingo]

Question for Chelsea fans. Was the reception Rafael Benitez got yesterday primarily a function of the treatment of Roberto Di Matteo or an expression of an overarching contempt for Rafa?

A bit of both deiseach, but I'd go 25% sympathy for RDM, 50% contempt for Benitez and 25% was "Hang on here a minute, Roman".  I take a clear stance on any supporters of any club booing their own players/manager.  These people pay good hard earned money to go to these matches and they're perfectly entitled to boo if they want.  I don't buy all this "respect" bollocks.

In a strange way I was heartened by the hostiity toward Benitez, not for the reason you might think.  It felt like the fans were finally saying to Abramovich "stop treating this club like a toy" and they were making their voice heard.  For once (after ample opportunities to do so) Chelsea fans were saying "No, this can't go on".  It felt to me that Benitez's appointment was the straw that broke the camel's back.  O'Neill said a few posts back that Chelsea is not the club supporters grew up with and I'd agree with that (with the caveat "what club is?).  The perception of Chelsea amongst 20-25 year olds has to have been posioned by some of the events of the past 10 years.

The problem is that Abramovich owns 100% of the club.  His policy is one of short termism and I don't expect that to change (a half a dozen more 0-0 draws and Benitez will be gone by the end of January!), however this is not going to attract a Guardiola.  I think the vast majority of fans would accept a season or maybe two of finishing 7th or 8th if that's what is needed to build a new long term sustainable team.  IMHO that is what is needed at Chelsea but it's unlikely to happen.

Do you not think though that RA is getting off scot free in this? I can understand that Rafa isn't welcome or will probably never be liked by the supporters but it was also apparent that alot of the ill-feeling was about RDM getting sacked. Why wasn't the hostility at RA then? Sure, its very highly unlikely that he'd give one flying f*** or change his ways, but I think this belittles your point that it was about Chelsea fans been hostile or standing up to the owner, it wasn't. They used Benitez to vent their anger, I'm just not sure what this anger was about though. Anger at RDM been sacked and a hated figure coming in; or anger at the realisation that they have absolute no control in their club and the realisation that it is a plaything for a foreign owner who cares little about them. For instance, I'd firmly believe if it was Harry Redknapp in yesterday it would have been a whole different atmosphere.

[AQMP]

I think we're more or less on the same wavelength here Bingo.  While Abramovich tinkered and messed with Chelsea over the years he could always point to the club being (by Chelsea's historic standards) successful on the pitch.  However his appointment of a manager who previously had expressed a lot of antipathy towards the club has given the fans the oportunity to vent their dissent at the appointment and therefore at Abramovich (who gave Rafa the job).  It's like they've finally decided to let him know that they know that he doesn't give much of a toss about the fans.  To paraphrase Enoch Powell (probably a Chelsea fan given his politics ) "He has mistaken a mood of resignation for one of tolerance"

[GalwayBayBoy]

Question for Chelsea fans. Was the reception Rafael Benitez got yesterday primarily a function of the treatment of Roberto Di Matteo or an expression of an overarching contempt for Rafa?

A bit of both deiseach, but I'd go 25% sympathy for RDM, 50% contempt for Benitez and 25% was "Hang on here a minute, Roman".  I take a clear stance on any supporters of any club booing their own players/manager.  These people pay good hard earned money to go to these matches and they're perfectly entitled to boo if they want.  I don't buy all this "respect" bollocks.

In a strange way I was heartened by the hostiity toward Benitez, not for the reason you might think.  It felt like the fans were finally saying to Abramovich "stop treating this club like a toy" and they were making their voice heard.  For once (after ample opportunities to do so) Chelsea fans were saying "No, this can't go on".  It felt to me that Benitez's appointment was the straw that broke the camel's back.  O'Neill said a few posts back that Chelsea is not the club supporters grew up with and I'd agree with that (with the caveat "what club is?).  The perception of Chelsea amongst 20-25 year olds has to have been posioned by some of the events of the past 10 years.

The problem is that Abramovich owns 100% of the club.  His policy is one of short termism and I don't expect that to change (a half a dozen more 0-0 draws and Benitez will be gone by the end of January!), however this is not going to attract a Guardiola.  I think the vast majority of fans would accept a season or maybe two of finishing 7th or 8th if that's what is needed to build a new long term sustainable team.  IMHO that is what is needed at Chelsea but it's unlikely to happen.

Do you not think though that RA is getting off scot free in this?

Well it's not like they want Abramovich to say sod this I'm off and to take his billions with him. Chelsea would have no problem getting new owners given their higher-profile these days but no guarantee they would be anywhere near as free-spending as Abramovich has been. Without him Chelsea could easily be in the same situation as similiar London clubs like Crystal Palace or Charlton Athletic or best case scenario they would be a decent Premier League side like their neighbours Fulham. Never really in danger of going down but not winning much either. They may dislike the way he operates but even the fans know that Abramovich writes the cheques that keep them where they are.

[AQMP]

[Well it's not like they want Abramovich to say sod this I'm off and to take his billions with him. Chelsea would have no problem getting new owners given their higher-profile these days but no guarantee they would be anywhere near as free-spending as Abramovich has been. Without him Chelsea could easily be in the same situation as similiar London clubs like Crystal Palace or Charlton Athletic or best case scenario they would be a decent Premier League side like their neighbours Fulham. Never really in danger of going down but not winning much either. They may dislike the way he operates but even the fans know that Abramovich writes the cheques that keep them where they are

Well, yes and no.  In the 11 seasons of the Premiership (since we all agree that football was invented in 1992) before Abramovich acquired the club in July 2003, Chelsea finished (working backwards) 4th, 6th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 11th, 11th, 14th, 11th.  During this time they won 2 FA Cups, 1 League Cup and 1 Cup Winners Cup.  Not earth shattering, I agree, but not Fulham or Charlton Athletic either.

[deiseach]

Well, yes and no.  In the 11 seasons of the Premiership (since we all agree that football was invented in 1992) before Abramovich acquired the club in July 2003, Chelsea finished (working backwards) 4th, 6th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 11th, 11th, 14th, 11th.  During this time they won 2 FA Cups, 1 League Cup and 1 Cup Winners Cup.  Not earth shattering, I agree, but not Fulham or Charlton Athletic either.

So . .. you want Ken Bates back?

[AQMP]

Well, yes and no.  In the 11 seasons of the Premiership (since we all agree that football was invented in 1992) before Abramovich acquired the club in July 2003, Chelsea finished (working backwards) 4th, 6th, 6th, 5th, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 11th, 11th, 14th, 11th.  During this time they won 2 FA Cups, 1 League Cup and 1 Cup Winners Cup.  Not earth shattering, I agree, but not Fulham or Charlton Athletic either.

So . .. you want Ken Bates back?

Frying pan...fire

[Bingo]

Possibly AQMP. I still feel the issue is more with Bentiez than with the sacking/appointment of managers. The "new" Chelsea fans will happily see managers come and go but they felt Bentiez was a bridge too far with his flag waving comments.

Its blatantly clear they'll never willingly turn on RA, so they'll turn on his appointments instead.

You noted earlier that Chelsea fans would happily take a few seasons of 8th place to turn things round and let a manager build his own squad. For me, the appointment of Benitez is RA taking a hit. He doesn't expect too much from him, see's him as a safe bet to mind the house till Pep becomes available. Benitez see's it as a chance for him to put himself into the shop window and maybe prove a few points and is willing to take it for what it is - an interim management job.