GAA doing a deal with SkySports

[magpie seanie]

Sky getting in on the act and illegal transfers to big clubs being let happen the GAA is starting to let things slip in my opinion.

Things have been slipping for a while. Slipping from the old style values some of us think are important.

I've come to realise that we are on an unavoidable path to a form of professional game. Cultivation of new markets has to be part of this for sustainability reasons. Getting involved with SKY TV was more of a "when" not "if" question. How many teams (franchises) will there be? Depends on how well this goes I'd reckon.

Some people think I'm crackers saying this but I reckon it's a nailed on certainty to happen. I'm a little saddened by it but a clean break between club and "county" might not be the worst thing if it's managed correctly.

Seanie I've no doubt that at sometime in the near future someone will try to make the game professional.

But I've said for years, and I'll say it again, even with the best will in the world, they will fail miserably.  You only have to look at how many people attend a Railway Cup match (or a Sigerson match), versus how many people attend Club Championship matches (or a McKenna Cup match), to understand that the overwhelming majority of GAA people go to watch their team, and not the players within that team.

The teams you follow are those you are born into, and as such are deep-rooted into your psyche.

And as a result, any attempts to go professional will need to take those teams with them. Which isn't going to happen as a) county boards will never surrender their control, b) there's at least 20 too many counties to make professional sport a viable option, c) spectators don't want it.

Whilst I agree that spectators want to watch their own team, amateur rugby clubs had a massive following back in the day whilst club rugby has almost died and spectators have gone to watch The. If games. This is very, very unlikely to happen in GAA but it wouldn't be impossible for super clubs to evolve. The "smart fellas" in Croke Park who seemingly are constantly looking at improving the game and increasing revenue might decide that a super 16 of the top clubs in Ireland ( with most based in Dublin ) might make for an attractive advertising and spectating "product".

The GAA are by nature conservative but I wouldn't totally dismiss some form of professionalism ( virtually impossible ) or semi professionalism ( slightly more likely - let's face it we're not far off that in some places at the minute ).

I'd suggest the key difference is that rugby has always been a provincial game in Ireland. While the club game was undoubtedly a bigger deal pre-professionalism, the natural order was club -> province -> country. Even the club leagues are run on a provincial basis.

So when that sport went professional, they'd an easy and clear path to getting there: 4 super clubs based on existing regional boundaries, support, and feeder clubs.

There's 32 such boundaries in the GAA.

Thewobbler - I take your points but I think it has been proven time and time again that if the money is there, a "solution" will be found. The whole "grants/additional expenses" farcical charade is a prime example. People will adjust to the new reality and if the pro game isn't for them, they'll always have the club scene. I'm not advocating this - I simply do not see it ending up any other way. There's too much money to be made, especailly if the likes of Sky get involved.

[thewobbler]

Seanie, there's only money to be made if the product is concentrated on a small, high quality group of people.

Professional rugby in Ireland has maybe 120 full time players and maybe another 80 part-time/development players. Or put another way, enough to fill out 6 or 7 GAA squads.

The only reason they can afford those playing numbers is down to Ireland's home games in the 6N and November series. Which the GAA, even it was called SkyGAAgo, would have absolutely nothing to compare.

Yet despite the international income, there are regular calls to close Connacht down, simply to balance the books.

- - -

But more pertinent is this. Imagine Ireland's 4 provinces only ever played each other, and to generate the gate/TV money to pay their players, had to do so 4 or 5 times a season; basically on a giant roundabout. How much spectator/TV traction do you think there'd be left after 3 or 4 years?

The answer is none.

- - -

It doesn't add up Seanie. We may end up in a scenario where there are a small number of professionals within a county team, in much the same manner that cricket and rugby used to work in Ireland i.e. some counties will find the money (through sponsorship) to allow a handful of players to give up "normal" work. But in return they're a paid employee of their team (county board) and will do what's asked of them, from coaching and administration, through to cleaning toilets.

Personally, I don't see this as a bad thing; it's a person making a living, and It's happening informally across the country at present. Supply and demand though will ensure it never gets beyond these levels.

[armaghniac]

It doesn't add up Seanie. We may end up in a scenario where there are a small number of professionals within a county team, in much the same manner that cricket and rugby used to work in Ireland i.e. some counties will find the money (through sponsorship) to allow a handful of players to give up "normal" work. But in return they're a paid employee of their team (county board) and will do what's asked of them, from coaching and administration, through to cleaning toilets.

Personally, I don't see this as a bad thing; it's a person making a living, and It's happening informally across the country at present. Supply and demand though will ensure it never gets beyond these levels.

This is fair comment. However some people here seem to envisage people playing GAA in South America, Africa and Antarctica. This type of international development is not desirable, in my opinion. Fortunately is is entirely unlikely. 

[Rossfan]

Good man Wobbler bringing a bit of common sense in to counter the paranoia.
Rugby was able to go Pro because it has an International outlet giving 2 international competitions for their professional clubs.
And of course the absolute €millions their 6 Nations thingy raises.
For the GAA to go professional - even if for only 12 "franchises" you'd need 300 players, 60 or 70 team management and maybe 100 back room admin etc. 470 x €70,000 = c€33m. I doubt if Sky will be paying that. sort of money. Add in travel, Ground rents, insurance, match day expenses and complete lack of international outlet or variety of fixtures.......
Won't be happening any time soon and anyway with a GAA audience of 5 million people less the old, the uninterested, the very young, other sports etc totally unfeasable.

[Denn Forever]

Dream team.

Marty Morrissey

Martin Carney

Pat Spillane

[Bingo]

I'd agree largely with Seanie and say that the GAA could never fund or sustain a professional structure. The numbers just don't stack up. Counties are already on their feet paying the running costs of a county team without adding payroll into it. To set up a franchise or regional system how do you target it? Majority based in Dublin? The GAA heartland isn't in the urban areas round the country but in the smaller rural communities who I don't think would have any interest in a team based elsewhere.

Monaghan on a crest of a wave at the minute, position has never been as positive with everything going well. A match yesterday that would go a long way to securing Div 1 status yesterday - about 2,300 people at it, mind you the venue, reserve matches fixed and mothers day probably knocked the attendence. I've said it before but the GAA county scene is the biggest bandwagon in the country and I'd include myself on that. The majority of county supporters tog out for the big championship days and that's it.

I could count the number of people from the club who go to county games on one hand for the NFL - very few players or coaches would have any sort of interest in it bar an Ulster final or big summer day out.

Putting in place any sort of professional structure or pay for play would only further erode a connection between the community and the intercounty player.

I see the likes of Parkinson and Mortimor having a kitty fit on twitter on Friday about the sky deal and the players been left out in the cold. You'd expect it from them. The likes of Philip Jordan and Kevin Cassidy quickly put Parkinson in his place and had a more realistic approach to it.

[johnneycool]

TBH I'd have no issue with the GAA issuing 'International' rights to all the major games if it meant taking them out of the going down to the local pub to watch a game which would be pretty common in the states and hardly conducive to family viewing and opening up the audience to a new audience.

But International rights would not nee to include the 6 counties as that would be a balls up for a 32 county organisation such as the GAA.

[blewuporstuffed]

I'd agree largely with Seanie and say that the GAA could never fund or sustain a professional structure. The numbers just don't stack up. Counties are already on their feet paying the running costs of a county team without adding payroll into it. To set up a franchise or regional system how do you target it? Majority based in Dublin? The GAA heartland isn't in the urban areas round the country but in the smaller rural communities who I don't think would have any interest in a team based elsewhere.

Monaghan on a crest of a wave at the minute, position has never been as positive with everything going well. A match yesterday that would go a long way to securing Div 1 status yesterday - about 2,300 people at it, mind you the venue, reserve matches fixed and mothers day probably knocked the attendence. I've said it before but the GAA county scene is the biggest bandwagon in the country and I'd include myself on that. The majority of county supporters tog out for the big championship days and that's it.

I could count the number of people from the club who go to county games on one hand for the NFL - very few players or coaches would have any sort of interest in it bar an Ulster final or big summer day out.

Putting in place any sort of professional structure or pay for play would only further erode a connection between the community and the intercounty player.

I see the likes of Parkinson and Mortimor having a kitty fit on twitter on Friday about the sky deal and the players been left out in the cold. You'd expect it from them. The likes of Philip Jordan and Kevin Cassidy quickly put Parkinson in his place and had a more realistic approach to it.

Part of the reason for this, and i include my self in this, is that there is so much time and effort put into the club game, that for alot of people heavily involved , when a county weekend comes around , it is more a chance to get a  weekend off rather than go and watch more football.

[Bingo]

I'd agree largely with Seanie and say that the GAA could never fund or sustain a professional structure. The numbers just don't stack up. Counties are already on their feet paying the running costs of a county team without adding payroll into it. To set up a franchise or regional system how do you target it? Majority based in Dublin? The GAA heartland isn't in the urban areas round the country but in the smaller rural communities who I don't think would have any interest in a team based elsewhere.

Monaghan on a crest of a wave at the minute, position has never been as positive with everything going well. A match yesterday that would go a long way to securing Div 1 status yesterday - about 2,300 people at it, mind you the venue, reserve matches fixed and mothers day probably knocked the attendence. I've said it before but the GAA county scene is the biggest bandwagon in the country and I'd include myself on that. The majority of county supporters tog out for the big championship days and that's it.

I could count the number of people from the club who go to county games on one hand for the NFL - very few players or coaches would have any sort of interest in it bar an Ulster final or big summer day out.

Putting in place any sort of professional structure or pay for play would only further erode a connection between the community and the intercounty player.

I see the likes of Parkinson and Mortimor having a kitty fit on twitter on Friday about the sky deal and the players been left out in the cold. You'd expect it from them. The likes of Philip Jordan and Kevin Cassidy quickly put Parkinson in his place and had a more realistic approach to it.

Part of the reason for this, and i include my self in this, is that there is so much time and effort put into the club game, that for alot of people heavily involved , when a county weekend comes around , it is more a chance to get a  weekend off rather than go and watch more football.

Yes that would be a valid point alright. I would have enjoyed going to county matches cause you could relax and enjoy them but now its another 2/3 hours away from the house.

But outside of that I do think a gap is developing between the club and county scene - its a one way street in terms of been told when you see your county players, when you fixtures are to be played and pulled, you give us XX amount, county teams spend xxx amount, etc etc. Its like clubs are after thoughts and a lot of good club people see this and don't feel the connection as much.

[sheamy]

Has this been posted yet?

http://historyhub.ie/wp-content/files_mf/1365161079Paul_Rouse_PayTv.pdf

From the conclusions:

"Alongside the creation of elites within sports comes the reinforcement of divides
amongst those who watch on television. The strength of universal public service
broadcasting is that it provides equality of access to every community within a
country – pay-tv subverts this equality. The evidence is everywhere: when a
sport moves to pay-tv, people who are older or poorer or who live in rural areas
are substantially less likely to be able to watch it, regardless of their interest in
or commitment to that sport. But, even in cities, significantly fewer people watch
sport on pay-tv than watch it on free-to-air channels. "

[Eamonnca1]

However some people here seem to envisage people playing GAA in South America, Africa and Antarctica. This type of international development is not desirable, in my opinion. Fortunately is is entirely unlikely.

Why?

[Eamonnca1]

So much panic.

You'd need to be bringing in a lot of money before we'd be anywhere close to going pro.  Even if the rights were sold for $10 million, that sounds like a lot of money but it's not when you reinvest it back into the association. It spreads thin over the 32 counties of Ireland and all the international units.

[Eamonnca1]

Here's what Eugene Mc Gee had to say on the subject yesterday. It's not one of Eugene's real forceful pieces. It's a. It's a bit lukewarm but then again his hands are maybe a wee bit tied now after his success with the FRC committee but maybe I'm doing him a disservice by saying that. And while we're at it, what is the definition of a "true GAA fan"?

Giving away TV rights to Sky would be a betrayal of true GAA fans.


EUGENE MCGEE –

I have had several people on to me last week about the suggestion that the GAA is going to give one of the television championship packages, possibly 10 games, to Sky for the next few years.

The people who have contacted me are generally older people who live in rural Ireland and do not have Sky on their television simply because they cannot afford it and, indeed, most don't want it.

Young people who do not have Sky, regularly watch soccer games in local pubs, but the people I refer to won't do that because of the drink-driving laws.

These people have spent a lifetime following GAA games, very often as players, club officers or general volunteers. They will feel let down by the GAA if this proposal goes ahead and they are unable to watch big games in the summer.

Those men, and women, deserve better because when the GAA was in a far poorer state many years ago it was people like them who provided the structures on and off the field that contributed greatly to the strong Associastion of today.

Nobody doubts that, in several ways, Sky having a package of live games would be very attractive to a lot of people and those who constantly criticise RTE would be included in that.

But while there are flaws in 'The Sunday Game,' it is better than the vast majority of similar sports programmes that I have watched in many countries, so Sky fans might end up disappointed.

But the main point I want to make here is that thousands of older people will feel the GAA has let them down in their desire to rake in more money from television rights.

That is something the GAA should not treat lightly, no matter what Sky may bring to the table.

If Sky could be used to bring live games to America it would be much more important for the Irish diaspora and then the GAA could go out and challenge Irish stations to do a lot better.

They're not being "given away", Eugene. They're being sold. And not for all matches as you imply. Painting a picture of poor rural old people deprived of the ability to watch any more GAA matches on TV? You might want to cut back on the hyperbole and get a few facts straight before putting pen to paper.

[Black Card]

Facts don't seem to stop you posting crap.

[lenny]

Is TV3 available in the north?

It's not available on freeview which a significant portion of the population use to access rte1 rte2 and tg4. Quite a few people are able to access saorview though and therefore have all the southern channels. Probably about half of gaa fans in the north are unable to access the tv3 games free to view.