James McClean

Started by thewobbler, July 19, 2015, 12:39:27 PM

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ONeill

And finally.....

So Bar • 9 hours ago
I have no problem with it, the player is simply an uneducated cretin that knows no better, a product of a blinkered upbringing. Before and during WWII, the republic were neutrals, although in many respects supported the Nazi regime against Britain, yet fail to consider should Hitler have invaded them, the majority of the population would have been liquidated for being sub humans in their eyes. At the very best, those remaining alive would now be speaking German as a first language. This is the thanks we now get for winning the war against tyranny and oppression, such a grateful race. God save the Queen.

Utdtilidie  So Bar • 9 hours ago
They re-fuelled the Nazi U-Boats in WWII, This is how they tried to remain neutral ?

OISIN  Utdtilidie • 9 hours ago
& how did the Irish do that = no books in history has wrote that =where yo there I pass that on 2 historians I think you could make a lot of money of this new development

OISIN  Utdtilidie • 9 hours ago
whilst your royal family have been shown worldwide 2 give the Nazi salute & support during the early years which started the whole mess & your whole royal family r German u really r thick

douzpwa  OISIN • 3 hours ago
It is you who is thick, the Queen was born here you stupid ignorant moron! The Queen was born at 2.40am on 21 April 1926 at 17 Bruton Street in Mayfair, London just one of many in the Royal family born here you Pathetic twisted ignorant spud!

Peter  douzpwa • 2 hours ago
The royal family are of very recent and undeniable German descent. They even changed the family name to Windsor in an attempt to appear more English. God save your German queen.

douzpwa  Peter • 15 minutes ago
I believe the comment made said the whole Royal family ARE German and we both know this is simply not true! If your going to use that old chestnut of descendents then many of the people of the uk come from many parts of the World! Really Peter I wont insult your intelligence am sure you read the oisin comment as I did!

douzpwa  Peter • 26 minutes ago
Why send this drivel reply when you wont even allow me to reply to this comment? Link takes me to nowhere near the comment!

So Bar  Peter • an hour ago
Bigot? Oh the irony.

So Bar  OISIN • 9 hours ago
I fail to see what how giving a Nazi salute in any way supported this atrocious regime. Those were in the days where everyone was none the wiser in respect of Hitler's aim and atrocities, so get a grip. They were simply unfortunate errors of judgment, yet the republic systematically provided support to Hitler's effort during the war, this simply cannot be denied. Me thinks it is you that needs to read up on your history.
I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

BennyCake

What would happen if West Brom make the cup final and McClean has to meet Charlie or Wills on the red carpet?

trileacman

Quote from: Hardy on July 22, 2015, 11:46:42 PM
It's important to know what's going on in idiot minds. There are more of them than us and they have votes.

True but you can usually predict the choice of idiots in an election by looking for the most abhorrent option to your sensibilities and sticking your money on that one. Northern Ireland being an iron-clad example.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

rrhf

Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2015, 12:28:51 AM
What would happen if West Brom make the cup final and McClean has to meet Charlie or Wills on the red carpet?
Do a Martin johnson.  Put them on the f**king grass.

MoChara

I see nothing wrong with it, it wasn't his national anthem why would he stand looking at the flag for someone elses?

Also what does where he work have to do with it, do you have to change your nationality when you move away for work. I'm pretty sure his contract is just to play football for West Brom.


OgraAnDun

Quote from: ONeill on July 23, 2015, 12:08:20 AM
And finally.....

So Bar • 9 hours ago
I have no problem with it, the player is simply an uneducated cretin that knows no better, a product of a blinkered upbringing. Before and during WWII, the republic were neutrals, although in many respects supported the Nazi regime against Britain, yet fail to consider should Hitler have invaded them, the majority of the population would have been liquidated for being sub humans in their eyes. At the very best, those remaining alive would now be speaking German as a first language. This is the thanks we now get for winning the war against tyranny and oppression, such a grateful race. God save the Queen.

Utdtilidie  So Bar • 9 hours ago
They re-fuelled the Nazi U-Boats in WWII, This is how they tried to remain neutral ?

OISIN  Utdtilidie • 9 hours ago
& how did the Irish do that = no books in history has wrote that =where yo there I pass that on 2 historians I think you could make a lot of money of this new development

OISIN  Utdtilidie • 9 hours ago
whilst your royal family have been shown worldwide 2 give the Nazi salute & support during the early years which started the whole mess & your whole royal family r German u really r thick

douzpwa  OISIN • 3 hours ago
It is you who is thick, the Queen was born here you stupid ignorant moron! The Queen was born at 2.40am on 21 April 1926 at 17 Bruton Street in Mayfair, London just one of many in the Royal family born here you Pathetic twisted ignorant spud!

Peter  douzpwa • 2 hours ago
The royal family are of very recent and undeniable German descent. They even changed the family name to Windsor in an attempt to appear more English. God save your German queen.

douzpwa  Peter • 15 minutes ago
I believe the comment made said the whole Royal family ARE German and we both know this is simply not true! If your going to use that old chestnut of descendents then many of the people of the uk come from many parts of the World! Really Peter I wont insult your intelligence am sure you read the oisin comment as I did!

douzpwa  Peter • 26 minutes ago
Why send this drivel reply when you wont even allow me to reply to this comment? Link takes me to nowhere near the comment!

So Bar  Peter • an hour ago
Bigot? Oh the irony.

So Bar  OISIN • 9 hours ago
I fail to see what how giving a Nazi salute in any way supported this atrocious regime. Those were in the days where everyone was none the wiser in respect of Hitler's aim and atrocities, so get a grip. They were simply unfortunate errors of judgment, yet the republic systematically provided support to Hitler's effort during the war, this simply cannot be denied. Me thinks it is you that needs to read up on your history.



I had no idea the English education system failed their citizens so miserably.

deiseach

Quote from: OgraAnDun on July 23, 2015, 03:08:38 PM
I had no idea the English education system failed their citizens so miserably.

Those people are a feature of the system, not a bug.

muppet

Quote from: Hardy on July 22, 2015, 08:05:01 PM
That was well worth reading for the most quotable quote I've seen in a long time:
Quote
One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them.

Only catching up on this now and I was going to quote that line.

But since it has already been done, I will simply quote this excellent paragraph:

QuoteIn 1938 the England team famously performed the Nazi salute whilst playing in Berlin. And the irony is that had one of the England players dissented and turned his back on the swastika, he would now be hailed as a principled hero. McClean, meanwhile, is being reproached for turning his back on God Save The Queen, which as we've established isn't even a good song. Of course, the analogy doesn't work, because it implies some sort of correlation between the Queen and the Nazi salute, which would be entirely ludicrous.
MWWSI 2017

thebigfella

Quote from: trileacman on July 22, 2015, 11:35:23 PM
Quote from: Hardy on July 22, 2015, 08:05:01 PM
Quote from: deiseach on July 22, 2015, 11:40:32 AM
If Sunderland and WBA are crap, what word can we use to describe teams worse than them? It's not about being 'offended' on their behalf, it's about taking a reductive view of James McClean's career which is really rather impressive.

Speaking of being offended, here's a surprising defence of McClean from - I can't believe I'm writing this - the Torygraph (NB I can't  bring myself to read the comments):

QuoteJames McClean's flag snub starts an undignified race to be offended

The West Brom midfielder's perceived lack of respect for the England flag has attracted a frankly absurd level of criticism
   
By Jonathan Liew 5:38PM BST 21 Jul 2015

Let me tell you a secret. I don't much like the national anthem. Quite apart from the fact that sending a lady "happy and glorious" when she is already worth an estimated £340 million and lives in a big palace is probably just a touch superfluous, it's not even a very nice tune. La Marseillaise, there's an anthem. The Italian one is a delight. God Save The Queen lacks any verve or spirit. It's tame, dry, unsure of itself. It's a Malted Milk biscuit in musical form.

So on an artistic level at least, I can empathise with James McClean. Last week the West Brom winger was in South Carolina for a pre-season friendly when, in a curious display of ostentation far outstripping the prestige of the actual game, the national anthems were played and the English flag unfurled overhead. While his team-mates turned to face the flag, McClean turned his back and refused to acknowledge it.

McClean is from a Republican area of Derry in Northern Ireland, and has previously opted not to wear a Remembrance Day poppy because of his political beliefs. For this he received death threats, taunts about the IRA, boos from his own fans. Despite all this, it is McClean's impoliteness under the microscope, as if he were a house guest who has insulted the decor. His manager Tony Pulis publicly rebuked him, warning of a developing "stigma around him" and ordering him to "face the flag" in future. A Derry MP advised West Brom to sack McClean, adding that "he's not worth the trouble".

Now, McClean's politics might not be to everyone's taste, and nor might his methods of expressing them. But in an age when footballers are becoming increasingly anodyne, there is something refreshing about one who believes in something; anything. Not that you know it from the furious reaction. One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them, and sure enough McClean's gesture provoked the sort of anger that the internet has turned into a performance art.

The criticism essentially runs thus: if McClean is content to earn a living in Britain, why does he hate it so much? Why not go back to where he came from (which, we should probably point out, is technically also Britain)?

This idea that earning a living from a country should entail tolerance for its customs and rituals remains surprisingly tenacious, if inconsistently applied. At what stage, for example, should we inform the Chinese and Russian investors buying up large swathes of London about the ancient British tradition that houses are lived in, rather than left empty and used as investment vehicles? Jose Mourinho, meanwhile, admitted in an interview last year that he dislikes British food. Are we obliged to lynch him, or can we just put him on a plane home? Instead, McClean's lack of reverence is singled out, largely by the same people who thought Gazza pretending to play the flute during the Old Firm derby was absolutely hilarious.

In 1938 the England team famously performed the Nazi salute whilst playing in Berlin. And the irony is that had one of the England players dissented and turned his back on the swastika, he would now be hailed as a principled hero. McClean, meanwhile, is being reproached for turning his back on God Save The Queen, which as we've established isn't even a good song. Of course, the analogy doesn't work, because it implies some sort of correlation between the Queen and the Nazi salute, which would be entirely ludicrous.

The issue for the game here is obvious enough. Footballers seem increasingly disconnected from the wider world, and the McClean furore encapsulates why. Take a stand and get pilloried by fans, dressed down by your manager, painted as a troublemaker. Far better to keep your head down, son. Don't cause any trouble. Face the flag.

That was well worth reading for the most quotable quote I've seen in a long time:

One of the great things about social media is that it allows you to find out what idiots are thinking without actually having to talk to them.

That's actually the worst thing about social media. If I wanted the opinion of idiots I'd ask for it.

Ah the irony.....

eddie d

"Of course, the analogy doesn't work, because it implies some sort of correlation between the Queen and the Nazi salute, which would be entirely ludicrous"

Going by the photographs McClean faced the flag with everyone else, then turned away from it. Clearly bringing attention to himself.

STREET FIGHTER

#100
Each to their own.....

The castigation of JMcC here is unbelievable.

He his own views on the issues.

Rightly or wrongly he has shown great courage given the the backlash that was facing him.....

Milltown Row2

Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on July 23, 2015, 11:47:56 PM
Each to their own.....

The castigation of JMcC here is unbelievable.

He his own views on the issues.

Rightly or wrongly he has shown great courage given the the backlash that was facing him.....

Castigation?? He's been called silly stupid or petulant.... And strong brave and having courage by others.. Get a grip.. Each to their point of view on the subject eh?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

trileacman

I actually really admire his stance on the poppy, it was always dignified and countered the perpetuation of the myth that the Englishmen killing Afghani shepherds from a Chinook were heroes. However his current actions aren't as readily defensible.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

muppet

Quote from: trileacman on July 24, 2015, 12:40:09 AM
I actually really admire his stance on the poppy, it was always dignified and countered the perpetuation of the myth that the Englishmen killing Afghani shepherds from a Chinook were heroes. However his current actions aren't as readily defensible.

I agree.

I wouldn't want to wear a poppy, but this is getting silly.
MWWSI 2017

Jell 0 Biafra

A bit off-topic, but what reason is there for anthems to be played at events not involving national teams anyway?   At a stretch, I can see it for finals, just to give a bit of pomp to the occasion, but this crack of playing the anthem--of whatever country--prior to most every match in every sport gives me a pain in the hoop.   

Would nearly make me re-evaluate in which country I draw my salary if every feckin country in the world wasn't at it.