FAI...June 2024 Friendlies v Hungary and Portugal

[sid waddell]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

Correct, changing the manager won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from

But the current senior international manager is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

It's basically impossible to do that

Senior international football isn't about development, it's about getting results with the players available

At international level you have a very limited time frame to develop a system, the nature of international football is stop start, with games taking place in small blocks of two or three, weeks or months apart, you get about 10-12 games a year

Try learning a language or musical instrument like that, you won't do it

The cutting edge of football tactics now involves sophisticated methods of attacking as Manchester City and Liverpool demonstrate

Developing these attacking systems takes way longer than organising a simple defensive framework

Tactics at international level are way behind club level - therefore simple, pragmatic, defensive or counter attacking game plans tend to win out - France had a very pragmatic game plan at the last World Cup even with a super talented squad

At the last World Cup we saw teams full of attacking talent struggle hugely to break down defences which were organised according to basic plans - that's because that attacking talent isn't used to playing with each other and didn't play according to a familiar attacking system

Spain, with oceans of attacking talent, struggled hugely to break teams down at the 2010 World Cup, never mind 2018

Ireland has basically no attacking talent

Unsurprisingly we are struggling to break teams down while attempting to play on the front foot

[6th sam]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

Yes definitely more playing in Dublin, belfast , Derry but overall how do you define participation?
Soccer is/was played by most of us, informally, but In terms of underage soccer and retention ireland is way behind the countries it wants to compete against,

[Armagh18]

Could we not just send the Dublin team out? Couldn't be any worse than these lads and would give the other counties a chance.

[highorlow]

At least the "elite" sport soccer is out of lockdown domestically.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

[MayoBuck]

Much as Delaney must take some of the responsibility it's not all down to him.
Compared to others we are a relatively small country , we have poor weather , poor facilities , and soccer isn't the dominant sport on the streets and fields . We have the additional issue of having access to several strong leagues next door: EPL, Echampionship, Efootball league, Scottish leagues , meaning that relatively speaking , domestic leagues suffer, as most top quality players leave these shores .
The IRFU by contrast to FAI seems to be much better run, and we punch above our weight rugby wise, by having strong domestic teams, amongst other things.
Irish soccer can never regain the success of the 90s as the world demographics of soccer dictate that we are extremely poorly placed to be a competitive soccer nation

I don't buy that. There are lots of small countries doing well on the world stage. Iceland, Norway, Croatia in recent times. Portugal, Belgium and Holland don't have huge populations either. The Irish population has grown hugely in the last 30 years and we've a higher proportion of young people than pretty much every European country.

[sid waddell]

Twitter full to the beams tonight with people trying to make this one John Delaney's fault.

Seriously people, have a good long word with yourselves. The CEO of the FAI has no more input into player development than the Easter Bunny.

You might as well blame the Taoiseach.

—-

Right now the manager's role isn't about today. Ireland couldn't qualify for the finals unless there was mass murder in each of their opponents' training camps.

This doesn't mean Kenny is the right person for the job. But if he's brave enough to cull some of the absolute shite (like McClean) from the set up and instead raise the profile of young players to the point that EPL teams might take notice, that's enough. For now.

This. The new FAI are smart enough to realise we are poor. There is a serious group of players coming through - look at Bazunu tonight, many of whom are LoI produced despite the FAI and that takes time.  However Kenny got the gig on the basis he proved with Dundalk he could get blood from a stone, limited players over achieving. We aren't seeing anything like that

Bazunu looked decent last night

But to say we have a serious group of players coming through is a huge case of wishful thinking

Connolly has completely stalled at Brighton
Parrott has scored one senior goal at club level, in League One
Idah is not getting game time at Norwich
Obafemi has fallen off the map
Molumby runs about a lot but will probably be a journeyman at best
Knight is doing well at Derby but had a bad night last night
Cullen is 25 next week so not a youngster
O'Shea might make it but he's a defender, and our real problem is from midfield up
Very difficult to see Jack Byrne making it at a decent level
Conor Coventry is hardly pulling up trees

Most of these players are not getting regular game time, and if they are it's not a high level

There's nothing that would give you much confidence that any of this group are anything more than the next group of Alan Brownes and Conor Hourihanes - at best

[6th sam]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

presumably they all played LOi . very good point.

[6th sam]

Much as Delaney must take some of the responsibility it's not all down to him.
Compared to others we are a relatively small country , we have poor weather , poor facilities , and soccer isn't the dominant sport on the streets and fields . We have the additional issue of having access to several strong leagues next door: EPL, Echampionship, Efootball league, Scottish leagues , meaning that relatively speaking , domestic leagues suffer, as most top quality players leave these shores .
The IRFU by contrast to FAI seems to be much better run, and we punch above our weight rugby wise, by having strong domestic teams, amongst other things.
Irish soccer can never regain the success of the 90s as the world demographics of soccer dictate that we are extremely poorly placed to be a competitive soccer nation

I don't buy that. There are lots of small countries doing well on the world stage. Iceland, Norway, Croatia in recent times. Portugal, Belgium and Holland don't have huge populations either. The Irish population has grown hugely in the last 30 years and we've a higher proportion of young people than pretty much every European country.

In all those countries Soccer is much higher profile than Ireland and to my knowledge, have a reasonable standard of domestic leagues. (Iceland punch well above their weight ). I agree with the likes of BB , that domestic soccer has to be promoted . Why do we accept 16 year olds going across the water away from family friends. In most other occupations eg students or tradesmen , you'd only consider going across the water @ 18/19.
There's a welfare issue here particularly for those that don't make it, and come back home , jobless , having spent some of the best years of their lives away from family and friends.

[seafoid]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

Roy Keane went from Cobh Ramblers to Forest.They were in the top tier. Look.at any mediocre team.in the EPL now. They are loaded with players from all over the world.TV money means they can buy players from anywhere.

Other countries have better player development systems
England is the wrong country for most Irish players given development possibilities. 

[6th sam]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

Roy Keane went from Cobh Ramblers to Forest.They were in the top tier. Look.at any mediocre team.in the EPL now. They are loaded with players from all over the world.TV money means they can buy players from anywhere.

Other countries have better player development systems
England is the wrong country for most Irish players given development possibilities.

Agree

[Baile Brigín 2]

Much as Delaney must take some of the responsibility it's not all down to him.
Compared to others we are a relatively small country , we have poor weather , poor facilities , and soccer isn't the dominant sport on the streets and fields . We have the additional issue of having access to several strong leagues next door: EPL, Echampionship, Efootball league, Scottish leagues , meaning that relatively speaking , domestic leagues suffer, as most top quality players leave these shores .
The IRFU by contrast to FAI seems to be much better run, and we punch above our weight rugby wise, by having strong domestic teams, amongst other things.
Irish soccer can never regain the success of the 90s as the world demographics of soccer dictate that we are extremely poorly placed to be a competitive soccer nation

So how come the underage sides are winnimg cups and highly regarded?

[sid waddell]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

Roy Keane went from Cobh Ramblers to Forest.They were in the top tier. Look.at any mediocre team.in the EPL now. They are loaded with players from all over the world.TV money means they can buy players from anywhere.

Other countries have better player development systems
England is the wrong country for most Irish players given development possibilities.

There's a combination of a load factors at play here

Street football has all but disappeared, societal patterns have changed
Poor coaching and structures at youth level
Shit domestic league
Globalisation of English football
Reluctance of Irish youngsters to go the continent due to cultural factors
We don't get any decent players from the diaspora any more
Senior manager out of his depth

[Baile Brigín 2]

Are there not more kids playing soccer that GAA?

If you play GAA or rugby in Ireland (and you're good enough) there is a clear path to follow from underage/schoolboy level all the way up to inter county/international level.

Soccer doesn't have anything close to that sort of structures for football in this country thanks mainly to mismanagement at the top level by the likes of John Delaney so Ireland doesn't produce quality players for the international side meaning we are relying on clubs in the UK to do the job for us.

Changing the manager of the senior international team won't suddenly mean Ireland has better players to pick from or start producing players for the international dide

What have Roy Keane, Paul.McGrath, Ronnie Whelan, Kevin Moran, Seamus Coleman, Jay McClean, Wes Hoolahan, Enda Stevens, Matt Doherty, Kevin Doyle, Shane Long, Daryl Murphy, David Meyler and so on have in common?

Roy Keane went from Cobh Ramblers to Forest.They were in the top tier. Look.at any mediocre team.in the EPL now. They are loaded with players from all over the world.TV money means they can buy players from anywhere.

Other countries have better player development systems
England is the wrong country for most Irish players given development possibilities.

Agreed. But the idea there isn't a pathway from the domestic game to overseas is false.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Much as Delaney must take some of the responsibility it's not all down to him.
Compared to others we are a relatively small country , we have poor weather , poor facilities , and soccer isn't the dominant sport on the streets and fields . We have the additional issue of having access to several strong leagues next door: EPL, Echampionship, Efootball league, Scottish leagues , meaning that relatively speaking , domestic leagues suffer, as most top quality players leave these shores .
The IRFU by contrast to FAI seems to be much better run, and we punch above our weight rugby wise, by having strong domestic teams, amongst other things.
Irish soccer can never regain the success of the 90s as the world demographics of soccer dictate that we are extremely poorly placed to be a competitive soccer nation

I don't buy that. There are lots of small countries doing well on the world stage. Iceland, Norway, Croatia in recent times. Portugal, Belgium and Holland don't have huge populations either. The Irish population has grown hugely in the last 30 years and we've a higher proportion of young people than pretty much every European country.

In all those countries Soccer is much higher profile than Ireland and to my knowledge, have a reasonable standard of domestic leagues. (Iceland punch well above their weight ). I agree with the likes of BB , that domestic soccer has to be promoted . Why do we accept 16 year olds going across the water away from family friends. In most other occupations eg students or tradesmen , you'd only consider going across the water @ 18/19.
There's a welfare issue here particularly for those that don't make it, and come back home , jobless , having spent some of the best years of their lives away from family and friends.

We don't. Thats why it stopped.

Lots of experts not understanding whats actually happening