Author Topic: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?  (Read 4364 times)

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28318
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2022, 02:49:04 PM »
The great Tyrone team of 03-08 never followed up an all Ireland. The question is whether this team will follow the same pattern or not.
Lookit

rrhf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5550
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2022, 03:00:47 PM »
not really conducive at the moment. In an amateur sport it probably comes down to the professionalism, social scene and affordability of everyone involved. Can players afford to park their lives for 2 years at a time or do they take an intermittent approach. I believe that ultimately the split season and closing down the county scene for longer periods of the year will in the future work better for the county players who can have more offtime,worktime, social life and of course club football before they come back and go again. Age and professional profile are crucial factors within a team winning an all ireland.  It makes the ageing Mayo players commitment to excellence more and more stand out. In kerry there is as much a relief at winning as there is euphoria, but it is truly unique in that, often it is often fear of being only a one time all ireland medal winner that drives them on again and again.  Where else would you get it? 
2023 Mayo to be top dog. You heard it here first.

tiempo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1248
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2022, 03:06:37 PM »
The great Tyrone team of 03-08 never followed up an all Ireland. The question is whether this team will follow the same pattern or not.

Followed up 03 plenty, of course they didn't do back to back, I think more than adequate dispensation for 04 and after 2 in 3 years in 05 the 08 success confirmed the greatness of the group and manager, without Tyrone in that era Kerry could well have done 5-6 in a row, Kerry in the noughties were pure class and the pre-eminent team, Tyrone rightly took the plaudits though as they delivered on the big days repeatedly and rightly team of the decade

Pre-eminent team: most successful
Team of the decade: the team everyone will remember

Ethan Tremblay

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2022, 03:12:24 PM »
If the argument is who is the best team in Ulster at the moment, we have a competition to settle that debate every year.  For the remainder of the spots, that is debateable.
Consistency is a big factor in what makes a team great in my eyes.  Derry will be labelled a flash in the pan if they underperform next year, much the same way we state Tyrone “fluked” their all Ireland based off this year. 

Cavan are a great example of this.  From watching them dismantle Donegal in the Ulster final, they have faded to nothing now.  The case could be argued they fluked their Ulster title, although on the day they were immense. 

Hand on heart the Ulster championship can be won by a number of teams, there is no out and out favourite for 2023.   
I tend to think of myself as a one man wolfpack...

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28318
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2022, 03:39:23 PM »
The great Tyrone team of 03-08 never followed up an all Ireland. The question is whether this team will follow the same pattern or not.

Followed up 03 plenty, of course they didn't do back to back, I think more than adequate dispensation for 04 and after 2 in 3 years in 05 the 08 success confirmed the greatness of the group and manager, without Tyrone in that era Kerry could well have done 5-6 in a row, Kerry in the noughties were pure class and the pre-eminent team, Tyrone rightly took the plaudits though as they delivered on the big days repeatedly and rightly team of the decade

Pre-eminent team: most successful
Team of the decade: the team everyone will remember
They were poor in 04 and 06. They ey were the wind beneath Kerry's wings in both years, ably assisted by Mayo.
They were a great team. The 2021 team learnt from them about economy and playing the clock down and taking your chance on the first go. Tyrone teams will probably always have that. A culture of winning.
Lookit

Blowitupref

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5139
  • There will be at least 2 mins of additional time
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2022, 04:35:23 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

I think i'd rank teams based on the last 3 years than just this years.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

The Coddfather

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • All views are my own
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2022, 05:05:10 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

I think i'd rank teams based on the last 3 years than just this years.

I completely agree... surely you have to consider Derry's performances in Ulster in the past few years?

You would have to go back to 2015 to find the last time Derry won an Ulster championship game before this year.

yellowcard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4791
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2022, 05:23:15 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

I think i'd rank teams based on the last 3 years than just this years.

I have taken all things into account but you can't argue that the current Derry aren't a completely different team to that of 3 years ago. Therefore its weighted heavily towards this years performances but again it's only my opinion and others can disagree if they want. If you were to base it off the last 3 years then Derry would be 5th or 6th ranked and you can't argue that the current Ulster champions are the 5th or 6th best team in the province.

tbrick18

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2022, 05:28:16 PM »
Less than 12 months since Tyrone won Sam.  Keep talking....

Normally I'd agree with that. But this year Tyrone had so many players leave the panel and were so far off the required level it almost seemed like they were a team in the early stages of rebuilding.
Of course, that could all change.
But I think based only on this years performances, Tyrone are well back.

tbrick18

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2022, 05:46:04 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

I think i'd rank teams based on the last 3 years than just this years.

I have taken all things into account but you can't argue that the current Derry aren't a completely different team to that of 3 years ago. Therefore its weighted heavily towards this years performances but again it's only my opinion and others can disagree if they want. If you were to base it off the last 3 years then Derry would be 5th or 6th ranked and you can't argue that the current Ulster champions are the 5th or 6th best team in the province.

If you want to take that approach, Cavan and Down are the top ranked teams in Ulster as they both have 5 All-Irelands.
Football is seasonal, on any given year there are countless factors in determining how "good" a team is. In 2022, Derry were the best team in Ulster having beaten the 3 previously ranked top teams in Ulster.
Will they do it again next year? Who knows.
Will Kerry win the AI next year again? Who knows. But even if they don't, they're still the best team in Ireland this year.


blanketattack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2022, 05:01:12 PM »
Tyrone are no. 1 in Ulster and 2 in Ireland. They just had the 20% new champions tax.
The 8 All-Ireland winning Dublin footballers, the current Limerick hurlers and Cody with 11 All-Irelands couldn't retain the an All-Ireland as new champions, so Tyrone were never going to either. Kerry will have a similar tax next year which puts Tyrone front and central to win the All-Ireland. The starting XV v Mayo would already put them in the frame but throw in two Canavans and a fit McShane and they'd be well ahead of the possé.
McShane getting fully fit is a big ask though. He must be the oldest 26 year old around!

screenexile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Up The Screen!
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2022, 08:34:06 PM »
Tyrone are no. 1 in Ulster and 2 in Ireland. They just had the 20% new champions tax.
The 8 All-Ireland winning Dublin footballers, the current Limerick hurlers and Cody with 11 All-Irelands couldn't retain the an All-Ireland as new champions, so Tyrone were never going to either. Kerry will have a similar tax next year which puts Tyrone front and central to win the All-Ireland. The starting XV v Mayo would already put them in the frame but throw in two Canavans and a fit McShane and they'd be well ahead of the possé.
McShane getting fully fit is a big ask though. He must be the oldest 26 year old around!

Here’s a stat to put to bed the notion of Tyrone currently being the best team in Ulster …

They’ve played 8 games against Ulster teams in competitive football in 2022 and their record is lost 7 drawn 1!!

God14

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1001
  • it aint over til its over
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2022, 10:01:13 PM »
They did beat Fermanagh

Jesus,  what is it about Derry and Armagh wans. Obsessed with Tyrone. Always. Rent Free.

screenexile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12566
  • Up The Screen!
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2022, 10:50:13 PM »
They did beat Fermanagh

Jesus,  what is it about Derry and Armagh wans. Obsessed with Tyrone. Always. Rent Free.

Lol I forgot about Fermanagh… you got me Tyrone are definitely rated the best team in Ulster now 😂😂

blanketattack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1263
    • View Profile
Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2022, 11:06:03 PM »
Tyrone are no. 1 in Ulster and 2 in Ireland. They just had the 20% new champions tax.
The 8 All-Ireland winning Dublin footballers, the current Limerick hurlers and Cody with 11 All-Irelands couldn't retain the an All-Ireland as new champions, so Tyrone were never going to either. Kerry will have a similar tax next year which puts Tyrone front and central to win the All-Ireland. The starting XV v Mayo would already put them in the frame but throw in two Canavans and a fit McShane and they'd be well ahead of the possé.
McShane getting fully fit is a big ask though. He must be the oldest 26 year old around!

Here’s a stat to put to bed the notion of Tyrone currently being the best team in Ulster …

They’ve played 8 games against Ulster teams in competitive football in 2022 and their record is lost 7 drawn 1!!

Ok, were terrible in 2022 but should be back in 2023.