Author Topic: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?  (Read 4362 times)

Rossfan

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2022, 10:33:32 AM »
Teams are as they are this year.
The past is a foreign country and all that
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

rrhf

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2022, 11:30:49 AM »
Less than 12 months since Tyrone won Sam.  Keep talking....

bennydorano

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2022, 12:37:52 PM »
Tyrone ones obviously think this year was a blip and they're going to waltz back in and take up where they left off in 2021, while they've obviously a lot of talent something looked to be wrong in that set up, that's not as easily rectified, plus the foot has been removed from Armagh & Derrys' necks, I don't see either team submitting any more. Plus, the luck was hanging out of Tyrone in 2021, only worse team to even reach an AIF was Down in 2010, at least they'd the decency to lose.

trueblue1234

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2022, 12:47:40 PM »
Tyrone ones obviously think this year was a blip and they're going to waltz back in and take up where they left off in 2021, while they've obviously a lot of talent something looked to be wrong in that set up, that's not as easily rectified, plus the foot has been removed from Armagh & Derrys' necks, I don't see either team submitting any more. Plus, the luck was hanging out of Tyrone in 2021, only worse team to even reach an AIF was Down in 2010, at least they'd the decency to lose.

You may be right. Generally speaking we've been in the top 4 for most of the last 2 decades. So hoping it was just a bad year after the excitement of 2021. But nothings guaranteed. I'd still fancy us to win Ulster next year if we can pull it together. And the AI is a more realistic target for teams now than 3-4 years ago when Dublin had their stranglehold. All to play for for a lot of teams.
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Ethan Tremblay

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2022, 12:54:07 PM »
Personally, I think that the likes of Armagh and Derry have mentally broken some barriers this year in terms of turning over the like of Tyrone and Donegal, who have been strong contenders for Ulster for the past decade.  Whereas in the not to distant past, a win by either team over Tyrone or Donegal would have been seen as an upset, I wouldn’t say that is the case anymore, as all 4 are as strong as one another, with possibly Donegal slightly behind the other 3 atm. 
Tyrone are extremely hard to diagnose.  A lack of motivation possibly was their main downfall this year, as nobody can deny the quality throughout the squad.  I would reserve judgement on them until we see how they perform in 2023.  If they are lacking motivation, this years should reinvigorate that.   
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yellowcard

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2022, 01:04:15 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.   

The Coddfather

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2022, 01:26:57 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

Derry are definitely not the best team in Ulster.


trueblue1234

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2022, 01:34:09 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.
To be fair, Tyrone have been top4 for a long time so while I think the AI was a bit lucky, it wasn't Leicester Citg levels of surprise.
If I was betting on an ulster team to win the AI next year my money would still be on Tyrone. Will take a few more years of success for Armsgh or Derry to make me think any differently.
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yellowcard

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2022, 01:43:21 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

Derry are definitely not the best team in Ulster.

Who is then? Derry beat Tyrone and Monaghan fairly comfortably. Donegal was an arm wrestle but they eventually prevailed so they certainly earned their Ulster title this year beating three out of the four top teams on their way to the title. They have a good underage/schools system and a competitive club scene so I would still think that they are on an upward trajectory. 

I did think about putting Armagh at number 1 as they easily accounted for Tyrone and Donegal in the qualifiers and you could argue that they were more impressive than Derry. But Derry probably have a greater scope for improvement I would argue.


yellowcard

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2022, 01:47:16 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.
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bennydorano

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2022, 01:51:30 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

Derry are definitely not the best team in Ulster.
If only there were a competition to decide who is

yellowcard

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2022, 02:34:05 PM »
It’s just that your logic is flawed.
Tyrone have been knocking about the top teams for a long time and recently won the AI. They are placed in 4th as “they have to prove it wasn’t a fluke.”

The teams in places 1 & 2 have come from nowhere for the 1st time in a lifetime, in which neither won the AI, but there is no mention of a possible fluke.

Performances in the most recent year will always naturally carry more weight than those of the previous year. It was fairly obvious that Tyrone have gone backwards this year both based on League performances, players leaving the squad and 2 bad championship defeats. The truth is that they are neither as good as 2021 or as bad as 2022. They are a long way off AI winning level though and I think that in time the Kerry 2021 semi final will go down as one of the great ambushes in recent times much like the Donegal defeat of Dublin in 2014. 

bennydorano

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2022, 02:45:35 PM »
If Donegal got someone like Malachy O'Rourke in I don't think they'll be too far away, huge talented, depends how much mental damage has been done.

screenexile

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Re: How strong is Ulster compared to the other provinces?
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2022, 02:48:11 PM »
This is how I would rank the Ulster teams at the minute.

1. Derry
2. Armagh
3. Donegal
4. Tyrone
5. Monaghan
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Fermanagh
9. Antrim

The truth is there isn't a lot between most of the sides, especially in that top 5 list of teams while Cavan and Down probably have some scope for improvement in terms of rising a division. I think Monaghan are a fading force and may well suffer relegation next season as they have too many older players. Tyrone have to prove that their AI success wasn't a fluke but I think it could take a few years and another change of management before they get back to that level again. Donegal possibly have the best players but they have flattered to deceive and lack real leadership which will only worsen when Murphy retires. So Derry and Armagh are out in front at the minute but they will have to back up the improvements they made this season. Anything less than an Ulster title for Armagh next season would be a disappointment.

Derry are definitely not the best team in Ulster.




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