Thomas Davis v the Government

[resdubwhite]

LAds. O'Donoughue told TD and the DCB he would look favourably on the application for funding up in Rathcoole. He also said he would assist them in the planning process. If the GAA games are  to be accomodated part of the ground will have to be torn down, plannig re applied for and the cost would increase siginificatly.

Irrespective if you are a rovers supporter or not, but if there were a resource in Tallaght say for example an Eircom league ground, that allowed children in Free on a friday night to see a game, in a fairly rough area. Wouldn't it be better that its there, aswell as opened for other community purpose's when rovers weren't playing, than have kids hanging around the square or in the various housing estates wheres theres plenty of mischief to get up to.

I think as an assocation this looks very bad for the GAA. We as members shouldn't need to get involved in petty arguments over funding for the likes of Tallaght. Shamrock Rovers are an irrelevence. Maybe not for Mr Kennedy, but having them as neighbours in Tallaght isn't a threat to the GAA.

[tayto]

Building expenses might go up by redeveloping the current site but surely it'd still be significantly cheaper then building a whole new stadium elsewhere.

Whereabouts in Rathcoole is he proposing exactly? it's easier for me to get to Parnell park then Rathcoole to be honest, unless the buses out that way have improved dramatically in the last few years.

[resdubwhite]

Point taking Tayto. I'm not sure of the exact location in Rathcoole. But is this not a case of first in, best dressed. The location of the ground in tallaght is ideal.

It smacks of one child wanting the others Christmas present. As i've said before it doesn't do the GAA any favours to chase this.

There would be an opinion within Shamrock Rovers that Kennedy is only after them to drive them into extinction.

[Gnevin]

Is Rathcoole  site, the same site sdcc have been dragged their heals on proving infrastructure on and so the dcb cant getting planning on the site?

[resdubwhite]

Not sure GNEVin.

What site is that and what have they been dragging their heels on. It certainly would be an interesting one to bring up with Government TD's coming up to an election next year.

[tayto]

Well like i say, whats the point in having a staium on the southside if it's harder to get to from then Parnell Park.
It's on the wrong side of the mad cow roundabout and has very poor bus services as far as i know, imagine trying to get there for a midweek evening throw in.

It is not giving the GAA good PR but i think they've every right to question the decision [ only because SDCC had agreed to let the GAA in.]
Agree 100% that the GAA in Tallaght ha nothing to fear from Rovers.

[dublinfella]

tayto,

point taken on board regarding u12 game,  i was however trying to show an example (howevery bad) that the stadium being built for "the community" should be for the community, If the government want to build shamrock rovers a stadium let them just come out and say it not in this veiled form.

since when does 'community' (actually its municipal) mean multi sport? its a soccer stadium, always  been seriously, there are a number of these facilities in the country and no-one ever complained before.

tayto, the SDCC had agreed to look at the feasabilty of letting the gaa in, but the decision was taken not to as the entire project would have to be restarted with a 2,000 capacity. thats ttechnically what the review is about, the decision not to make it multi sport. rovers werent violently opposed to some form of sharing originally if the capacity was suitably high, but i believe they trust kennedy as far as they can throw him at this stage and question his motives.

and to be fair, shamrock rovers fans fought long and hard to stop glenamlure being demolished, im sure some on here bought KRAM badges. to say the fans owned and run club of 2006 are responsible for louis kilcloyne in the 80s is disengenious at best. especially considering what we now know about the brown paper bag culture prevelent at the time. i presume part of this is a reward for rovers getting their act together over the past year or two.

on rathcoole, what exactly is the problem? my understanding is there is an issue with an access road sdcc are refusing to pay for. is the bolshevism in the sdcc over this related to them being dragged to the high court? why hand over the site for development and then block it?

[tayto]

since when does 'community' (actually its municipal) mean multi sport? its a soccer stadium, always  been seriously, there are a number of these facilities in the country and no-one ever complained before.

tayto, the SDCC had agreed to look at the feasabilty of letting the gaa in, but the decision was taken not to as the entire project would have to be restarted with a 2,000 capacity. thats ttechnically what the review is about, the decision not to make it multi sport. rovers werent violently opposed to some form of sharing originally if the capacity was suitably high, but i believe they trust kennedy as far as they can throw him at this stage and question his motives.

I said Municipal originally, thanks for correcting me. Its not a soccer stadium it is a half finished soccer stadium that now belongs to the SDCC.

Are you 100% sure that's why the SDCC changed their mind? as far as i'm aware the SDCC only changed their mind after John O' Donohue threatened to withdraw funding. Are you telling me extending the pitch would have reduced the capacity to 2k? Thats the first I've heard of that, surely that would make the whole issue cut and dried as a 2,000 seater would be far too small for Rover's needs. As far as I'm aware rovers rejected offers from the DCB to come on board long before it came to this.

[tayto]

Well if that is accurate, then the case makes no sense.

Surely no one would expect the SDCC and by extension Shamrock Rovers to seriously accept that much of a reduction in capacity ... if you have you figures right .. are you sure it's not a 2000 reduction in capacity?

I'm sorry dublinfella but I find it hard to believe there is something as obvious as that to make the case a waste of time.

[dublinfella]

Well if that is accurate, then the case makes no sense.

Surely no one would expect the SDCC and by extension Shamrock Rovers to seriously accept that much of a reduction in capacity ... if you have you figures right .. are you sure it's not a 2000 reduction in capacity?

I'm sorry dublinfella but I find it hard to believe there is something as obvious as that to make the case a waste of time.

the report is on the interweb somewhere. just look at the site, its too short to have anything behind the goals if its a full gaa pitch and the existing stand would be half the size to accomodate the width.

the figures are accurate, which is why as a member of a club backing this move, im angry.  im convinced this is an attempt to stymie rovers, not get access to the stadium.   and it lets the DCB off the hook for not building the promised southside venue.

[deiseach]

the figures are accurate, which is why as a member of a club backing this move, im angry.  im convinced this is an attempt to stymie rovers, not get access to the stadium.   and it lets the DCB off the hook for not building the promised southside venue.

Fine, you believe this is a manifestation of the troglodytes in the GAA, of which there are plenty - did someone mention Fearon? However, some of us object to this on the basis that a professional soccer club is being parachuted into an area and effectively given a free stadium. Can we all have free grounds please, of a size many times what could reasonably be required??

[deiseach]

shamrock rovers have had a prescence in tallaght for more than 10 years. the only part of their set up not out there is the loi side. they havent parachuted anywhere. they have put in €2m to the project, so it aint free. cut the hysterionics.

Around the same time that Rovers made a deal with the SDCC, the SDCC GAVE 30 odd acres in Rathcoole to to the DCB to play with. The DCB were given free land where the Luas is being extended to and we are begrudging Rovers?  . And everyone knows a few clubs who got handed land at some point.

As someone said, its the kid who wants the other ones present.

Define 'presence'. Perhaps you think half (quarter? one-tenth?) building a stadium amounts to a presence, but has a ball ever been kicked by the senior Rovers side in anger in Tallaght? I'm sure there are many, perhaps even dozens, of indigenous junior soccer clubs in Tallaght who are far more worthy of support than the nomads of Milltown.

As for your €2m, I refer you to the €1.5m tax write-off. Add in the €4m you yourself claim is coming from South Dublin County Council and you have what amounts to a free stadium.

If the GAA can secure such favourable terms from the authorities for the building of its facilities, then I wouldn't begrudge Rovers a cent. But considering the hysteria that were attached to the funding of Croke Park, I won't be holding my breath

[dublinfella]

shamrock rovers have had a prescence in tallaght for more than 10 years. the only part of their set up not out there is the loi side. they havent parachuted anywhere. they have put in €2m to the project, so it aint free. cut the hysterionics.

Around the same time that Rovers made a deal with the SDCC, the SDCC GAVE 30 odd acres in Rathcoole to to the DCB to play with. The DCB were given free land where the Luas is being extended to and we are begrudging Rovers?  . And everyone knows a few clubs who got handed land at some point.

As someone said, its the kid who wants the other ones present.

Define 'presence'. Perhaps you think half (quarter? one-tenth?) building a stadium amounts to a presence, but has a ball ever been kicked by the senior Rovers side in anger in Tallaght? I'm sure there are many, perhaps even dozens, of indigenous junior soccer clubs in Tallaght who are far more worthy of support than the nomads of Milltown.

As for your €2m, I refer you to the €1.5m tax write-off. Add in the €4m you yourself claim is coming from South Dublin County Council and you have what amounts to a free stadium.

If the GAA can secure such favourable terms from the authorities for the building of its facilities, then I wouldn't begrudge Rovers a cent. But considering the 'hysterics' that were attached to the funding of Croke Park, I won't be holding my breath

im not denying they got debt written off. but what have TD even offered to put into the project?

Rovers have a couple of dozen of underage sides, womens sides, a leinster senior league side, scholarships to the IT, a basketball side all playing in tallaght. they have pitches in kiltipper where the kids play and the adults train. as you well know there is a lot more to a club than its senior side. TD are trying to close the gate to soccer 10 years too late.

[deiseach]

im not denying they got debt written off. but what have TD even offered to put into the project?

At the terms offered to Rovers, a bag of magic beans should be sufficient to get a large stake in the project 

Rovers have a couple of dozen of underage sides, womens sides, a leinster senior league side, scholarships to the IT, a basketball side all playing in tallaght. they have pitches in kiltipper where the kids play and the adults train. as you well know there is a lot more to a club than its senior side. TD are trying to close the gate to soccer 10 years too late.

Fair enough, that's all good and wholesome. I'd guess that there are many junior sides who have been doing much the same kind of thing in Tallaght for a lot longer than ten years. Given the ideological hostility that you clearly think permeates Thomas Davis as a club, perhaps you could detail the efforts they've gone to to stymie those clubs' development over the years

[MacDanger]

Don't know why they couldn't have incorporated the two pitches, the regulations for soccer pitches is 100-130m in length and 50-100m wide while it's 130-145 and 80-90 for GAA pitches. Seems to me like one pitch properly designed would have been ideal.

I do think it's wrong for Rovers to get seemingly preferential treatment as regards tax write-offs and grants - tough shit if it was run by a shower of thieves - the club should have been allowed to go under the same as would happen to any small business and/or club.

However, it seems a bit late for the GAA to be taking this to court when the thing is half finished, they should have gotten involved a lot earlier.