Author Topic: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones  (Read 28596 times)

omagh_gael

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #435 on: July 17, 2017, 09:49:41 PM »
Very fair analysis Wobbler. Agree regarding Petey, he is to be one of the strongest ball carriers around. Excellent balance.

grounded

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #436 on: July 17, 2017, 09:49:58 PM »
O'Hanlon was givin Wylie plenty after the penalty, an indication that he doesnt like it done onto himself, you reap what you sow.
As far as Morgan goes...see above.

In fairness wylie was mouthing to him before the penalty!  Anyway all a crock of crap as it goes on in most games now. I seem to remember Morgan getting a bit himself in the past when taking frees against Donegal. A non issue to be honest.
         As wobbler said there i thought Peter Harte was the main driver at the start of the second half. A seriously under rated player. Has everything. The other thing was the quality they had to take on. Had my doubts after the Donegal game simply as i didnt know how good or bad Donegal are. But after Sunday i can see them beating the likes of the Dubs or Kerry.

imtommygunn

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #437 on: July 17, 2017, 09:52:04 PM »
Harte is much quicker than he looks too. Him and o'hanlon had a race for the ball second half and he made o'hanlon look like he was standing still.

OgraAnDun

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #438 on: July 17, 2017, 09:54:43 PM »
O'Hanlon was givin Wylie plenty after the penalty, an indication that he doesnt like it done onto himself, you reap what you sow.
As far as Morgan goes...see above.

In fairness wylie was mouthing to him before the penalty!  Anyway all a crock of crap as it goes on in most games now. I seem to remember Morgan getting a bit himself in the past when taking frees against Donegal. A non issue to be honest.
         As wobbler said there i thought Peter Harte was the main driver at the start of the second half. A seriously under rated player. Has everything. The other thing was the quality they had to take on. Had my doubts after the Donegal game simply as i didnt know how good or bad Donegal are. But after Sunday i can see them beating the likes of the Dubs or Kerry.

I can remember him getting stick from a wee kid sitting on the fence behind the goals in the 2014 replay! Whatever the wee lad said was enough to get a retort anyway.

JoG2

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #439 on: July 17, 2017, 10:28:30 PM »
O'Hanlon was givin Wylie plenty after the penalty, an indication that he doesnt like it done onto himself, you reap what you sow.
As far as Morgan goes...see above.

In fairness wylie was mouthing to him before the penalty!  Anyway all a crock of crap as it goes on in most games now. I seem to remember Morgan getting a bit himself in the past when taking frees against Donegal. A non issue to be honest.
         As wobbler said there i thought Peter Harte was the main driver at the start of the second half. A seriously under rated player. Has everything. The other thing was the quality they had to take on. Had my doubts after the Donegal game simply as i didnt know how good or bad Donegal are. But after Sunday i can see them beating the likes of the Dubs or Kerry.

Ye'd want to think about changing the old username there  :)

Did Morgan not hit a long free against Donegal, cup the ear to the crowd and couldn't hit snow off a rope for the remainder of the game, hence the giggling from the masses?

Re Peter Harte, a serious footballer, one the best in the business

grounded

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #440 on: July 17, 2017, 11:15:21 PM »
O'Hanlon was givin Wylie plenty after the penalty, an indication that he doesnt like it done onto himself, you reap what you sow.
As far as Morgan goes...see above.

In fairness wylie was mouthing to him before the penalty!  Anyway all a crock of crap as it goes on in most games now. I seem to remember Morgan getting a bit himself in the past when taking frees against Donegal. A non issue to be honest.
         As wobbler said there i thought Peter Harte was the main driver at the start of the second half. A seriously under rated player. Has everything. The other thing was the quality they had to take on. Had my doubts after the Donegal game simply as i didnt know how good or bad Donegal are. But after Sunday i can see them beating the likes of the Dubs or Kerry.

Ye'd want to think about changing the old username there  :)

Did Morgan not hit a long free against Donegal, cup the ear to the crowd and couldn't hit snow off a rope for the remainder of the game, hence the giggling from the masses?

Re Peter Harte, a serious footballer, one the best in the business

Nah,  i think they do have the quality to match the Dubs or Kerry this year,  particular as its big Seans last Swandive ahem song.

tyroneman

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #441 on: July 18, 2017, 07:19:13 AM »


If I was from that part of the world I'd be a tad worried about how a defensive system that looks so solid and well drilled still manages to cough up 15 points against a rather toothless attack. You can write some of those off against the match being over after 45 mins, but still, the strength of the Tyrone bench should be enough to see it out strongly.



This is a point to watch. Against Donegal it was the same. After 45/50, Mickey emptied the bench and Tyrone conceded a right bit albeit with the game dead and buried. We'll know soon whether this is a worrying trend late in games or simply holding back.

Joe mcQuillan did his best to help the Down scoreboard tick over in the last 15min. Some of the frees given ( and not given the other end) were scandalous.


omaghjoe

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #442 on: July 18, 2017, 07:38:56 AM »


If I was from that part of the world I'd be a tad worried about how a defensive system that looks so solid and well drilled still manages to cough up 15 points against a rather toothless attack. You can write some of those off against the match being over after 45 mins, but still, the strength of the Tyrone bench should be enough to see it out strongly.



This is a point to watch. Against Donegal it was the same. After 45/50, Mickey emptied the bench and Tyrone conceded a right bit albeit with the game dead and buried. We'll know soon whether this is a worrying trend late in games or simply holding back.

Joe mcQuillan did his best to help the Down scoreboard tick over in the last 15min. Some of the frees given ( and not given the other end) were scandalous.

Very true. I have alot of confidence in the defence the organisation, dicipline, skill in the tackle, concentration and shear relentlesness has been immense

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #443 on: July 18, 2017, 08:34:07 AM »


If I was from that part of the world I'd be a tad worried about how a defensive system that looks so solid and well drilled still manages to cough up 15 points against a rather toothless attack. You can write some of those off against the match being over after 45 mins, but still, the strength of the Tyrone bench should be enough to see it out strongly.


It wouldn't really worry me in that regard.

I think we went 1-15 to 0-08 up after about 50 minutes and McQuillan seemed to just hand out ridiculous frees for slight contact he wasn't giving up to that point, as Brolly said after the match they were sympathy frees.

A similar thing happened against Donegal, we were 1-15 to 0-06 up after 50 minutes and took our foot off the gas. When games are going like that teams will generally drop their intensity and it can be a challenge like atmosphere. I wouldn't expect us to tail off if games are in the melting pot like that.

Very solid performance. Mattie played very well but his shooting was way off, Sean not at his best yet but I think he still deserves his place, it's more his decision making that has been uncharacteristically off more than signs of age showing so I trust him to turn it around. Who takes over the short and medium range frees from the left if he's dropped in any case.

2-15 from play against Down. 11 different scorers from play.
1-19 from play against Donegal. 11 different scorers from play.

They are highly impressive scoring stats, what I would suspect is that when we play the likes of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry they will target us from deep and use systematic fouling to halt our momentum, they will look to hit us in areas where we still have obvious problems with scoring frees. The effectiveness of this will rely on how well the ref will police it, I think Kerry are by far the biggest proponents of systematic fouling in the game right now as they have serious issues in their back line, they tend to get away with it because they are Kerry and little commentary is afforded to their cynicism.

nrico2006

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #444 on: July 18, 2017, 09:03:46 AM »
Once the first goal went in and the game was really over, Down started getting frees for very little.  In saying that, I would rather see Tyrone really hammer a team when the opportunity is there.  In both the Donegal and Down games, Tyrone have taken the foot off in the 15 minutes when you would expect those playing for places to really bust their balls.  As mentioned though, in both these games the Tyrone defence was near perfect when the game was still competitive.  Good to see Lee Brennan get a run, was surprised to see his brother not involved when I even hoped he would start.
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Up The Middle

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #445 on: July 18, 2017, 09:42:44 AM »


If I was from that part of the world I'd be a tad worried about how a defensive system that looks so solid and well drilled still manages to cough up 15 points against a rather toothless attack. You can write some of those off against the match being over after 45 mins, but still, the strength of the Tyrone bench should be enough to see it out strongly.


It wouldn't really worry me in that regard.

I think we went 1-15 to 0-08 up after about 50 minutes and McQuillan seemed to just hand out ridiculous frees for slight contact he wasn't giving up to that point, as Brolly said after the match they were sympathy frees.

A similar thing happened against Donegal, we were 1-15 to 0-06 up after 50 minutes and took our foot off the gas. When games are going like that teams will generally drop their intensity and it can be a challenge like atmosphere. I wouldn't expect us to tail off if games are in the melting pot like that.

Very solid performance. Mattie played very well but his shooting was way off, Sean not at his best yet but I think he still deserves his place, it's more his decision making that has been uncharacteristically off more than signs of age showing so I trust him to turn it around. Who takes over the short and medium range frees from the left if he's dropped in any case.

2-15 from play against Down. 11 different scorers from play.
1-19 from play against Donegal. 11 different scorers from play.

They are highly impressive scoring stats, what I would suspect is that when we play the likes of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry they will target us from deep and use systematic fouling to halt our momentum, they will look to hit us in areas where we still have obvious problems with scoring frees. The effectiveness of this will rely on how well the ref will police it, I think Kerry are by far the biggest proponents of systematic fouling in the game right now as they have serious issues in their back line, they tend to get away with it because they are Kerry and little commentary is afforded to their cynicism.

Really. I thought he was well below par and has been all year. Very lucky not to have been replaced with Cavanagh. Harte had a great game, covered serious ground and took a lot of heavy hits and just kept going.
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DennistheMenace

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #446 on: July 18, 2017, 09:45:21 AM »
Tyrone never needed to get out of 3rd gear and really look a very well balanced team. Agree on the defensive point and Harte won't be happy about conceding 15 points despite a few of those coming when the game was over. Tyrone have scorers right across half back with pace to burn, what did the half back line score, something like 6 or 7 points and instrumental in many more.

As a Derry man it's hard to say but that Tyrone team are utterly superb and that's without the need for marquee forward. Who needs one of those when the spread of scores comes from all angles and all parts of the team. I fancy them for the All Ireland and I'm sure a few Tyrone supporters are quietly confident too but wouldn't dare say it out loud.

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #447 on: July 18, 2017, 10:26:12 AM »
Having watched the highlights last night I agree I may have been a bit harsh on Peter Harte. He might not have had as many scores as usual but yes he put in a a lot of work and showed great acceleration that time.

It's interesting that we're scoring so much from play this year and I think I read in the IN that we only gave away one scoreable free in the first 28 mins or something crazy like that. One of the things I like the most is we have so many players who can shoot from distance and so it's not always necessary to play the conventional way of kicking it into a forward who then turns and shoots. Actually most of the times they tried to kick it into the FF line in the first half they made a mess of the pass or else the forward was swallowed up, wheres that period in the 3rd quarter we went back to what we do best and that is running at pace and then shooting from just outside the large D.

O'Rourke made the comment that most of our scores come from MF and defence now with players arring to the attack late and then shooting from distance when everyone else is bottled up.
Spillane was still suggesting that we have no top range forwards and that we're not ruthless enough with our goal chances which will cost us in the big games.

I think back in 2003 we were also a high points scoring team and not focusing much on goals.

Zulu

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #448 on: July 18, 2017, 10:48:15 AM »
Though Tyrone have been impressive so far I don't think they are All Ireland contenders yet. I think Ulster currently lacks a genuine top team and therefore their performances need to be viewed in that context. That's not to say they aren't a top 4 team, they probably are, but I couldn't see them beat Kerry or Dublin. I suspect they'll find it much tougher to score against the top three in the country (still Dublin, Kerry and Mayo IMO) and many of the criticisms from last year will resurface before the year is out.

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Re: Ulster Final: Tyrone v Down 16/07/17 14.00 Clones
« Reply #449 on: July 18, 2017, 10:51:39 AM »
Having watched the highlights last night I agree I may have been a bit harsh on Peter Harte. He might not have had as many scores as usual but yes he put in a a lot of work and showed great acceleration that time.

It's interesting that we're scoring so much from play this year and I think I read in the IN that we only gave away one scoreable free in the first 28 mins or something crazy like that. One of the things I like the most is we have so many players who can shoot from distance and so it's not always necessary to play the conventional way of kicking it into a forward who then turns and shoots. Actually most of the times they tried to kick it into the FF line in the first half they made a mess of the pass or else the forward was swallowed up, wheres that period in the 3rd quarter we went back to what we do best and that is running at pace and then shooting from just outside the large D.

O'Rourke made the comment that most of our scores come from MF and defence now with players arring to the attack late and then shooting from distance when everyone else is bottled up.
Spillane was still suggesting that we have no top range forwards and that we're not ruthless enough with our goal chances which will cost us in the big games.

I think back in 2003 we were also a high points scoring team and not focusing much on goals.

There seems to be a great obsession about having to score lots of goals to do well. In 2003 Tyrone won it without scoring a goal in the semi final or final. In 2005 and 2008  we got one goal in the finals. Dublin won an All Ireland two years ago scoring 12 points v Kerry. I'd be more worried if we were relying on goals to win games.