Donegal (2011-2014) v Tyrone (2003-2008) v Armagh (1999-2006)

[SouthDublinBro]

Do you think the current Dublin team is better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009? I think a lot of the praise heaped on Donegal is based on them beating this Dublin team (and rightly so!). But remember, they haven't won their second all Ireland - yet! Tyrone consistently beat that great Kerry team, possibly stopping them winning six, even seven in a row. So do you think Donegal beating Dublin in a one off game makes them a better team than Tyrone who beat the great Kerry team 3 times. So the question really is - how do you rate that Kerry team against the current Dublin team?

I believe the current Dublin team are more suited to playing that Kerry team with the O'Se's in their prime than any of these hard fouling Ulster teams. Especially Donegal as we found out.

Also the Armagh side being talked about here only won the 1 All Ireland (and were extremely fortunate to beat Dublin on route) and simply weren't good enough to truly match the Tyrone team that won 3. If Donegal beat Kerry in 3 weeks I would say that they are on that Tyrone side's level.

[Mike Sheehy]

I love it Mike. You're on a rampage! Don't burn yourself out though. There's the guts of 3 weeks left, so make sure you have some other "put-the-focus-on-Donegal-rather-than-Kerry" stuff to wheel out. I recommend ....
- Donegal 2014 vs Donegal 1992?
- Are the McHugh's one of the "great" GAA families?
- Could Jim manage Celtic and Donegal at the same time?

Thrown in a bit of a Kerry injury crisis about a week out, and then a big row in the Kerry camp on the Thursday before. And then bob's your uncle ... another Sam for Kerry. Simples!

I'm genuinely hurt by your insinuations.

I am merely trying to establish this Donegal teams place on the Ulster Pantheon. If you think they cannot stack up against Tyrone or Armagh just say so 

Do you think the current Dublin team is better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009? I think a lot of the praise heaped on Donegal is based on them beating this Dublin team (and rightly so!). But remember, they haven't won their second all Ireland - yet! Tyrone consistently beat that great Kerry team, possibly stopping them winning six, even seven in a row. So do you think Donegal beating Dublin in a one off game makes them a better team than Tyrone who beat the great Kerry team 3 times. So the question really is - how do you rate that Kerry team against the current Dublin team?

Jesus Christ...even ye're questions are like a packed defence....I don't think I can find away through that maze of inquiry.

Anyway, to answer your question(I think) , yes Donegal are better because they are playing in an era where teams like Dublin and Kerry are more prepared for the "system" , thereby it is a more equal contest in the sense that the relative talents of the two teams can be pitted against each other on a more equal basis. Its not a fair fight if you, essentially, mug your opponent.

For that reason I would consider Donegal to be a superior team to Tyrone and Armagh because they be beat both Kerry (2012) and Dublin (2013)when both sides knew what to expect and had sufficient time to adapt. You have to tip your hat to them for that.

Actually, I agree, reading back through my last few lines is a bit too much like hard work but I think you got my point, though I find it hard to believe that by 2008, Kerry still felt they were mugged by Tyrone 5 years after they were first mugged in 2003. By your own standards Mike, that is a most pathetic argument.

However, I also asked the question, is this current Dublin team better than the Kerry team of 2003-2009? Donegal seem to be getting a lot of praise for beating Dublin, yet Tyrone's achievements in beating Kerry are placed below this in your reckoning.

whoah..hold on a second there, you conveniently ignored the bit where I said "had sufficient time to adapt". It is hard to completely change your footballing philosophy over a short period.

It is not an accident that Tyrone and Armagh disappeared once other teams figured out their system. Eventually natural talent comes to the fore. Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force. Once they harnessed that talent and dumped the feckless attitude it was only a matter of time before the eclipsed Armagh and Tyrone.

[SouthDublinBro]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

[Mike Sheehy]

Do you think the current Dublin team is better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009? I think a lot of the praise heaped on Donegal is based on them beating this Dublin team (and rightly so!). But remember, they haven't won their second all Ireland - yet! Tyrone consistently beat that great Kerry team, possibly stopping them winning six, even seven in a row. So do you think Donegal beating Dublin in a one off game makes them a better team than Tyrone who beat the great Kerry team 3 times. So the question really is - how do you rate that Kerry team against the current Dublin team?

I believe the current Dublin team are more suited to playing that Kerry team with the O'Se's in their prime than any of these hard fouling Ulster teams. Especially Donegal as we found out.

Also the Armagh side being talked about here only won the 1 All Ireland (and were extremely fortunate to beat Dublin on route) and simply weren't good enough to truly match the Tyrone team that won 3. If Donegal beat Kerry in 3 weeks I would say that they are on that Tyrone side's level.

Agreed. In an ideal world the present Dublin team would have coincided with the Kerry team of the noughties. Think of the classics we could have had ?? It would almost make you weep when you think of that horrible blanket snuffing the life out of anything that was good in Gaelic football in that era. For shame Ulster, for shame.

[BennyHarp]

I love it Mike. You're on a rampage! Don't burn yourself out though. There's the guts of 3 weeks left, so make sure you have some other "put-the-focus-on-Donegal-rather-than-Kerry" stuff to wheel out. I recommend ....
- Donegal 2014 vs Donegal 1992?
- Are the McHugh's one of the "great" GAA families?
- Could Jim manage Celtic and Donegal at the same time?

Thrown in a bit of a Kerry injury crisis about a week out, and then a big row in the Kerry camp on the Thursday before. And then bob's your uncle ... another Sam for Kerry. Simples!

I'm genuinely hurt by your insinuations.

I am merely trying to establish this Donegal teams place on the Ulster Pantheon. If you think they cannot stack up against Tyrone or Armagh just say so 

Do you think the current Dublin team is better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009? I think a lot of the praise heaped on Donegal is based on them beating this Dublin team (and rightly so!). But remember, they haven't won their second all Ireland - yet! Tyrone consistently beat that great Kerry team, possibly stopping them winning six, even seven in a row. So do you think Donegal beating Dublin in a one off game makes them a better team than Tyrone who beat the great Kerry team 3 times. So the question really is - how do you rate that Kerry team against the current Dublin team?

Jesus Christ...even ye're questions are like a packed defence....I don't think I can find away through that maze of inquiry.

Anyway, to answer your question(I think) , yes Donegal are better because they are playing in an era where teams like Dublin and Kerry are more prepared for the "system" , thereby it is a more equal contest in the sense that the relative talents of the two teams can be pitted against each other on a more equal basis. Its not a fair fight if you, essentially, mug your opponent.

For that reason I would consider Donegal to be a superior team to Tyrone and Armagh because they be beat both Kerry (2012) and Dublin (2013)when both sides knew what to expect and had sufficient time to adapt. You have to tip your hat to them for that.

Actually, I agree, reading back through my last few lines is a bit too much like hard work but I think you got my point, though I find it hard to believe that by 2008, Kerry still felt they were mugged by Tyrone 5 years after they were first mugged in 2003. By your own standards Mike, that is a most pathetic argument.

However, I also asked the question, is this current Dublin team better than the Kerry team of 2003-2009? Donegal seem to be getting a lot of praise for beating Dublin, yet Tyrone's achievements in beating Kerry are placed below this in your reckoning.

whoah..hold on a second there, you conveniently ignored the bit where I said "had sufficient time to adapt". It is hard to completely change your footballing philosophy over a short period.

It is not an accident that Tyrone and Armagh disappeared once other teams figured out their system. Eventually natural talent comes to the fore. Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force. Once they harnessed that talent and dumped the feckless attitude it was only a matter of time before the eclipsed Armagh and Tyrone.

Is is the current Dublin team better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009 though? The evidence you are providing would suggest they might well be. I genuinely thought that was a great Kerry team but you are telling me that over a five year period and three games, they still couldn't adapt their game to beat Tyrone. Great teams don't need that length of time to adapt and will find a way to win. If Dublin come back to beat Donegal next year then will they may well be viewed as the greatest team of all due to their ability to take less than 5 years to work out a system.

[Mike Sheehy]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Not really. Down are more calculating. Donegal are very natural. If they hit form you won't stop them.

[Mike Sheehy]

I love it Mike. You're on a rampage! Don't burn yourself out though. There's the guts of 3 weeks left, so make sure you have some other "put-the-focus-on-Donegal-rather-than-Kerry" stuff to wheel out. I recommend ....
- Donegal 2014 vs Donegal 1992?
- Are the McHugh's one of the "great" GAA families?
- Could Jim manage Celtic and Donegal at the same time?

Thrown in a bit of a Kerry injury crisis about a week out, and then a big row in the Kerry camp on the Thursday before. And then bob's your uncle ... another Sam for Kerry. Simples!

I'm genuinely hurt by your insinuations.

I am merely trying to establish this Donegal teams place on the Ulster Pantheon. If you think they cannot stack up against Tyrone or Armagh just say so 

Do you think the current Dublin team is better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009? I think a lot of the praise heaped on Donegal is based on them beating this Dublin team (and rightly so!). But remember, they haven't won their second all Ireland - yet! Tyrone consistently beat that great Kerry team, possibly stopping them winning six, even seven in a row. So do you think Donegal beating Dublin in a one off game makes them a better team than Tyrone who beat the great Kerry team 3 times. So the question really is - how do you rate that Kerry team against the current Dublin team?

Jesus Christ...even ye're questions are like a packed defence....I don't think I can find away through that maze of inquiry.

Anyway, to answer your question(I think) , yes Donegal are better because they are playing in an era where teams like Dublin and Kerry are more prepared for the "system" , thereby it is a more equal contest in the sense that the relative talents of the two teams can be pitted against each other on a more equal basis. Its not a fair fight if you, essentially, mug your opponent.

For that reason I would consider Donegal to be a superior team to Tyrone and Armagh because they be beat both Kerry (2012) and Dublin (2013)when both sides knew what to expect and had sufficient time to adapt. You have to tip your hat to them for that.

Actually, I agree, reading back through my last few lines is a bit too much like hard work but I think you got my point, though I find it hard to believe that by 2008, Kerry still felt they were mugged by Tyrone 5 years after they were first mugged in 2003. By your own standards Mike, that is a most pathetic argument.

However, I also asked the question, is this current Dublin team better than the Kerry team of 2003-2009? Donegal seem to be getting a lot of praise for beating Dublin, yet Tyrone's achievements in beating Kerry are placed below this in your reckoning.

whoah..hold on a second there, you conveniently ignored the bit where I said "had sufficient time to adapt". It is hard to completely change your footballing philosophy over a short period.

It is not an accident that Tyrone and Armagh disappeared once other teams figured out their system. Eventually natural talent comes to the fore. Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force. Once they harnessed that talent and dumped the feckless attitude it was only a matter of time before the eclipsed Armagh and Tyrone.

Is is the current Dublin team better than the Kerry team of 2003 - 2009 though? The evidence you are providing would suggest they might well be. I genuinely thought that was a great Kerry team but you are telling me that over a five year period and three games, they still couldn't adapt their game to beat Tyrone. Great teams don't need that length of time to adapt and will find a way to win. If Dublin come back to beat Donegal next year then will they may well be viewed as the greatest team of all due to their ability to take less than 5 years to work out a system.

I'll put it this way, it took you 120 years to figure out a way to beat us so you should probably give us more that 5 years to give a suitable reply.

[SouthDublinBro]

Agreed. In an ideal world the present Dublin team would have coincided with the Kerry team of the noughties. Think of the classics we could have had ?? It would almost make you weep when you think of that horrible blanket snuffing the life out of anything that was good in Gaelic football in era. For shame Ulster, for shame.

We need to get the Donegal boys back on the drink. Make them forget about all this defensive bollix.

[JP]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Not really. Down are more calculating. Donegal are very natural. If they hit form you won't stop them.

You really do spout some unadulterated shite, Donegal's 'system' is quite possibly the most rigid, refined and evolved we've ever seen from a group of 15 players, and good luck to them.

A Tyrone team that won All-Irelands the whole way up from Minor through U21 (multiple) to Senior (multiple) were, according to you, not naturally talented.

Enough said.

[T Fearon]

As an Armagh fan I would have to say If Donegal win Sam this year then they are better than the Armagh and Tyrone teams of the noughties.Both Donegal and Armagh won a spate of ulster titles in their prime (something Tyrone couldn't manage) and the way Mc Guinness has revived them after last year's Ulster final defeat and particularly the quarter final mauling against Mayo is nothing short of phenomenal.He is a master tactician miles above Mickey Harte and Joe Kernan

[SouthDublinBro]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Lol you must be on the wind up. Armagh and Tyrone had great quality players playing in a good system. McDonnell, McGrane, Clarke, Geezer, McConville, Dooher, Cavanagh, O'Neill, McGuigan, Ricey. Not to mention the likes of John McIntee or Gormley. These are all players that would have walked into any team in Ireland. Ask any Donegal man in the early 2000's if they thought that they had a more talented team then Armagh and the answer would be no.

Tyrone had a lot of talented footballers. Not so much Armagh. You boys were always more into the sly, late hits than free flowing attacking football. I'm not going to pretend I know more about Ulster football than you, but I do know for a fact that the 00s Tyrone and the current Donegal players are more talented than your famous Armagh lads. Just as I know that the current Dublin team are a lot better than the Dublin team you squeaked by in 02.

[trileacman]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Not really. Down are more calculating. Donegal are very natural. If they hit form you won't stop them.

You're talking though your hole. You haven't a notion about Ulster football.

[BennyHarp]

As an Armagh fan I would have to say If Donegal win Sam this year then they are better than the Armagh and Tyrone teams of the noughties.Both Donegal and Armagh won a spate of ulster titles in their prime (something Tyrone couldn't manage) and the way Mc Guinness has revived them after last year's Ulster final defeat and particularly the quarter final mauling against Mayo is nothing short of phenomenal.He is a master tactician miles above Mickey Harte and Joe Kernan

As everyone knows, it's all about the number of Ulster titles and not about All Ireland's 

However, between 1999 and 2010 Tyrone and Armagh shared 12 Ulster titles, Tyrone winning 5 and Armagh winning 7. Though after 2003, it was all about  the All Ireland for Tyrone and peaking for September. I'm not too sure there would be many Tyrone fans who would swap the 2005 and 2008 All Ireland titles for Armagh's Ulster titles in those two years. So using those Ulster titles as the reason why Armagh were better is a bit strange. Also your definition of "a spate" would be interesting. Donegal's "spate" must be the 3 Ulsters in 4 years between 2011 -2014. Funnily enough Tyrone had a similar "spate" between 2007 - 2010.

[BennyHarp]

Also, Donegal would always have been viewed as the most naturally talented Ulster side so it is not an accident that they have emerged as the dominant force.

I would have thought that would probably be Down. Donegal/Derry would not be far behind them though.

Not really. Down are more calculating. Donegal are very natural. If they hit form you won't stop them.

You're talking though your hole. You haven't a notion about Ulster football.

Fixed that for you.