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[hard to know how much continuity you can take from U17 to U20]

Eamon Young, James Sargent, Johnny McGuckian is some half forward line for this level. Donegal are dangerous but it could be the same as last year, where whoever wins when Tyrone and Derry meet will be thinking of an All Ireland.

Galway and Mayo probably need watched having been the minor final 3 years ago but hard to know how much continuity you can take from U17 to U20

There are only 11 of Derry's 2022 minor panel on the 2025 u20 panel (35 players).

The word on the street was that Derry took the cream of the 2022 panel and added a good chunk of the 2023 minor team and a sprinkling of the 2024 minors. I'm not sure how many of those newbridge lads were on the 2022 team, but I heard there were no trials at any rate.

Who's supposed to be there or thereabouts at U20 this year? Tyrone / Derry still the teams to beat?

Was it Armagh minors that went on the run last year or 2023?
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Who's supposed to be there or thereabouts at U20 this year? Tyrone / Derry still the teams to beat?

Was it Armagh minors that went on the run last year or 2023?

Derry beat Monaghan in 2023 in the final and Armagh in last year's final.

I'm confused why did the ref call the press box. Surely if the ref didn't give the score it would have been obvious and there'd have been no need for clarification. Alternatively if he had given it where does the power to change the scoreline after the match come from. 

I think he clarified with the press box as to what his onfield decision was. The problem appears to have been that rte and a number of print journalists incorrectly added the point which could never have counted under the rules as they were then.

[To further confuse matters RTE seem to have counted the score in its points differential but GAA.ie have not.]

For some reason this didn't post but I see from reading the league tables the final score/non score the Tyrone v Armagh game may become important.

It was discussed on this thread briefly previously but at the buzzer Tyrone took a shot just before the buzzer sounded, as it was in the air the buzzer went. Then Rafferty deflected it over the bar.

The umpire initially didn't wave the flag (correctly as I understand the rule) but McQuillian who was referring ran in and told him to do so.

I may have the broadcasters the wrong way round here but RTE didn't count the score but GAAGo and BBC did.

If Armagh and Tyrone win and Mayo loose and/or Kerry draw then that one point may be crucial.

To further confuse matters RTE seem to have counted the score in its points differential but GAA.ie have not.

Rte are correct... Why would the score not count? Game isn't over until the ball goes dead after the hooter*

*from a few days ago that is

The hooter had gone, the ball was kicked on the hooter but because Rafferty touched it the point shouldnt have counted.

Ahhh.. A game from weeks ago, only half read it. Sure you could go through multiple incidents in every game re scores

You could but I don't remember two news outlets reporting different scores for the one match.  My understanding of the rule at the time was the referee should not have allowed the score because Raferrty had a touch after the hooter but as he did then the score stood and that the RTE table is then correct and the gaa.ie table is incorrect.  I am not sure if there is an official source for the correct score but potentially although admittedly unlikely it could make a huge difference this weekend.

The point was initially flagged as a 2pt,but was touched so became 1pt, but then ref realised that the touch was after the hooter and disallowed it entirely.
Nonsense of course, it was a 2pt and should have remained as such.

That's not my memory at all. Rafferty definitely touched it after the hooter. Initially the umpire doesn't go for any flag then McQuillian runs in with an arm up then the umpire signals a point. So it definitely shouldn't have been a 2pt score or a score at all but RTE changed their graphic. BBC didn't. RTE have the final score 1-23 to 0-19. GAA.ie have it 1-23 to 0-18. I'm not sure it's possible to know which is correct

Hopefully it won't make a difference

Final score as per referee was 1.23 to 0.18 - excerpt from match report below:

With a final swish, Michael McKernan unleashed a buzzer-beating effort from outside the arc just before the siren sounded. The umpire raised his flag, the scoreboard switched over, Ethan Rafferty touched it before it went over the bar making it one point instead of two. None of it mattered.

That score didn't count. It took a long time for anyone to realise it. The fact that Rafferty touched the ball after the buzzer meant the final play was considered a shot that dropped short. Ultimately, the press in the media box were informed that the issue had been clarified post-match and the revised Tyrone total was 18 points. Welcome to the new order

I wonder where that match report is from. Also the footage available makes very clear the score was awarded wrongly. It certainly didn't seem to have been cancelled. My understanding was that scores couldn't be cancelled post match.

https://youtu.be/8BBSMeWq-Gk?si=s3drdPmwQxUsGbjL

Irish examiner, the author explained how the ref clarified this all with them afterwards, the scoreline on gaa.ie is also as per above - I'd say it's all pretty definitive.

We're in trouble now! McRapist has given Ireland 12 days to sort itself out out or he's taking action!..
https://x.com/TheNotoriousMMA/status/1902464305666388075?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Could anyone think for one millisecond that the lad who struggled to string a coherent sentence together the other day in the White House penned that tweet - it starts off with 'ad hominem' ffs.....
(Which I looked up and appears to have been used in the right context).

[To further confuse matters RTE seem to have counted the score in its points differential but GAA.ie have not.]

For some reason this didn't post but I see from reading the league tables the final score/non score the Tyrone v Armagh game may become important.

It was discussed on this thread briefly previously but at the buzzer Tyrone took a shot just before the buzzer sounded, as it was in the air the buzzer went. Then Rafferty deflected it over the bar.

The umpire initially didn't wave the flag (correctly as I understand the rule) but McQuillian who was referring ran in and told him to do so.

I may have the broadcasters the wrong way round here but RTE didn't count the score but GAAGo and BBC did.

If Armagh and Tyrone win and Mayo loose and/or Kerry draw then that one point may be crucial.

To further confuse matters RTE seem to have counted the score in its points differential but GAA.ie have not.

Rte are correct... Why would the score not count? Game isn't over until the ball goes dead after the hooter*

*from a few days ago that is

The hooter had gone, the ball was kicked on the hooter but because Rafferty touched it the point shouldnt have counted.

Ahhh.. A game from weeks ago, only half read it. Sure you could go through multiple incidents in every game re scores

You could but I don't remember two news outlets reporting different scores for the one match.  My understanding of the rule at the time was the referee should not have allowed the score because Raferrty had a touch after the hooter but as he did then the score stood and that the RTE table is then correct and the gaa.ie table is incorrect.  I am not sure if there is an official source for the correct score but potentially although admittedly unlikely it could make a huge difference this weekend.

The point was initially flagged as a 2pt,but was touched so became 1pt, but then ref realised that the touch was after the hooter and disallowed it entirely.
Nonsense of course, it was a 2pt and should have remained as such.

That's not my memory at all. Rafferty definitely touched it after the hooter. Initially the umpire doesn't go for any flag then McQuillian runs in with an arm up then the umpire signals a point. So it definitely shouldn't have been a 2pt score or a score at all but RTE changed their graphic. BBC didn't. RTE have the final score 1-23 to 0-19. GAA.ie have it 1-23 to 0-18. I'm not sure it's possible to know which is correct

Hopefully it won't make a difference

Final score as per referee was 1.23 to 0.18 - excerpt from match report below:

With a final swish, Michael McKernan unleashed a buzzer-beating effort from outside the arc just before the siren sounded. The umpire raised his flag, the scoreboard switched over, Ethan Rafferty touched it before it went over the bar making it one point instead of two. None of it mattered.

That score didn't count. It took a long time for anyone to realise it. The fact that Rafferty touched the ball after the buzzer meant the final play was considered a shot that dropped short. Ultimately, the press in the media box were informed that the issue had been clarified post-match and the revised Tyrone total was 18 points. Welcome to the new order

Too many dead rubbers towards last couple of rounds makes a mockery of the league.  Teams getting to the final because others don't want to be there, team's avoiding relegation because their opponents are playing their B side, it's a very strange competition. 

As for the rules, and specifically the hooter.  I thought the hooter played to the exact time of the game including stoppages.  So when it blows, that's the time up.  Why do the FRC think it appropriate for the game to be extended until a break in play, what's the rationale behind that?

It's never going to be exact, we're not playing nfl where seconds are added back. There's always an element of judgement as to when clock should or should not be stopped, this, very sensible amendment adds to the game and removes that potential for controversy around when the ball left the foot, see meath v Westmeath 2 weeks ago for example.

[To further confuse matters RTE seem to have counted the score in its points differential but GAA.ie have not.]

For some reason this didn't post but I see from reading the league tables the final score/non score the Tyrone v Armagh game may become important.

It was discussed on this thread briefly previously but at the buzzer Tyrone took a shot just before the buzzer sounded, as it was in the air the buzzer went. Then Rafferty deflected it over the bar.

The umpire initially didn't wave the flag (correctly as I understand the rule) but McQuillian who was referring ran in and told him to do so.

I may have the broadcasters the wrong way round here but RTE didn't count the score but GAAGo and BBC did.

If Armagh and Tyrone win and Mayo loose and/or Kerry draw then that one point may be crucial.

To further confuse matters RTE seem to have counted the score in its points differential but GAA.ie have not.

Rte are correct... Why would the score not count? Game isn't over until the ball goes dead after the hooter*

*from a few days ago that is

The hooter had gone, the ball was kicked on the hooter but because Rafferty touched it the point shouldnt have counted.

Ahhh.. A game from weeks ago, only half read it. Sure you could go through multiple incidents in every game re scores

You could but I don't remember two news outlets reporting different scores for the one match.  My understanding of the rule at the time was the referee should not have allowed the score because Raferrty had a touch after the hooter but as he did then the score stood and that the RTE table is then correct and the gaa.ie table is incorrect.  I am not sure if there is an official source for the correct score but potentially although admittedly unlikely it could make a huge difference this weekend.

The point was initially flagged as a 2pt,but was touched so became 1pt, but then ref realised that the touch was after the hooter and disallowed it entirely.
Nonsense of course, it was a 2pt and should have remained as such.

I don't know why he's saying a rebuild, there was a strong enough team there. It was strengthening it. I like to know what our attacking tactic is, foreby getting it to Shane McGuigan. Why was Ruane not picked up after scoring a few points. He made it to 6 and still not tagged. It's his zonal marking mindset that beats me. Only Galway really use that.

A rebuild of a team that were league champions and AI Quarter finalists? Sounds like someone making excuses. You can make a case that it is difficult without key players but that has been an issue for a while- very limited depth in the squad. Tally was supposed to be a defensive guru. I have never seen us so porous at the back. Teams just walk through us.

I also thought Tally declaring this year a 'scrub year' sets the tone. Players thinking well the league probably cost us longer term last year and Tally isn't too bothered either way. We need a massive improvement in 3 weeks to just avoid a doing.

I honestly couldn't care less about the Donegal game. It has to be all about getting the squad fit and ready for the Sam Maguire.

The Provincials feed into Sam particularly with the seedings. Beat by Donegal we are 3rd seeds. That has the potential to have a serious effect in the group stages. Pretty deflating to be Ulster Champions two years in a row, League champions last year, Quarter finalists and semi finalists all over the past 3 years and be a bit rudderless at the minute.

Given that 1st and 2nd seeds are based on being provincial finalists, it often makes sense to be a third seed as your odds of getting a weaker 2nd seed are higher.
With this year's structure, provincial success is largely irrelevant imo, might be good confidence wise, but it could be coming too early for us in terms of injury recovery. If we can avoid a hiding, regroup and get a good block of work to have a go at the all Ireland series, that might be best we can hope for this year.

Derry did okay with a weakened side. Thought we should've had a penalty for the foot block. 2 other situations with the new rules I am not too sure about. The first mayo point came when they were awarded a free, the derry player handed the ball over and the mayo player immediately bounced the ball and started running forward before giving a pass for an easy score. Has the solo and go changed to allow a bounce and go? Also Conor Doherty scored a great point near the end from outside the 45. The keeper got a fingertip to it as it went over the bar and only one point was awarded. I thought that rule had changed with the word directly removed so it should've been 2 points.

The removal of the word "directly" was so that a ball that hits the post and then goes over scores 2 points.  If an opposition player touches it over the bar it is still 1 point.

And no, you can't bounce from a solo and go. If what you described is what happened then the player should have been put back to retake the free.

When I saw that change about the removal of the word 'directly' I presumed it was to address precisely this situation, where a keeper got the tip of a glove to the ball on the way over. I saw the explanation about hitting the post etc, but I don't see why this scenario isn't also covered by the new wording. It happened in the Tyrone v armagh game too, it's obviously nonsense and you'd imagine it's unintended. Reape was very aware of of it, he was turning to the umpire with one giant glove finger up after he claimed he touched it. If this interpretation remains will we see keepers get those giant fan hands and keep them in the net to pull on in certain situations, the way hurling keepers used to have their extra hurls etc?

Haven't done away with the crappiest rule, 2pts from a free. I seen a minor kick 3 of these recently. So how's it a skill at senior level. Bad rule.

Makes even less sense when you see 45s and sideline scores just get one point.

I think sidelines from outside the arc still get 2pts, the problem is that the arc doesn't extend in to the end line because of the potential for pitches to be different widths countywide.
That said, if any deadball deserves 2 PTS it'd be the exact sideline kicks which don't qualify.

But totally agree, many 2 pt kicks in general aren't especially difficult, so allowing 2pt frees isn't rewarding a skill that we really want to see.
With the better weather, beggan will be tapping over 2 pters from his own half!

[Simple change would be to make it from play only.]

I am starting to lose faith, I'm really trying to support the changes as the game truly needed change, but it seems that at every opportunity they are ignoring simplicity and choosing complexity.

Case in point is this variation of the 3 up rule 'we are not going to restrict keepers from going up the field', but we'll just add more complexity to make it unlikely.

There are a load of simple tweaks that could be made, the 2 pointer appears popular with the media and committee members, it's the most disliked change on here and it's seen as too cheap by many others I talk to. Simple change would be to make it from play only.

This new midfield mark rule seems unpoliceable, retention of the incredibly generous forward mark again seems like a mistake.

Unfortunately, this season is a write-off and really unfortunately, that may well undermine the retention of these rules when Congress decides next October. Not that I'm even sure I want any of them at this point!

To put just 1 possible counterpoint to you - no, it isn't that simple. If you just wipeout all frees in on or outside arc then teams will foul as a matter of course in that area. Makes sense in that case to just foul the likes of a Shane Walsh say, rather than let him shoot for 2.

Okay, I have a vested interest, I fecking hate the stupid 2 point score. There I've said it! It's an abomination. It has the potential to transform our game in unintended ways and to my mind we're seeing evidence of that.
It's a cheap, cheap score. It could only work when paired with a 4 point goal and whichever 'concerned delegates' to Congress made the frc abandon the (25%) increased goal value while retaining this have a very poor understanding of mathematics. This change doubles (100%) the value of a relatively straightforward score, something becoming clear as the season progresses. Goals are an afterthought, why try and work a low percentage scoring opportunity when a high percentage option, albeit worth 33% less, is more logical.

Maybe we should just go the whole hog and get rid of the crossbar and net, let the keeper be a full back or pocket back and make the point with 6 points.

So, rant over, I don't actually think that reducing free kick values back to 1pt would result in a rash of fouls around the arc. It might improve the game and free up space inside actually, if defenders felt there was an advantage to engaging outside the arc, they might push out. It could be monitored and tweaked of course!

I am starting to lose faith, I'm really trying to support the changes as the game truly needed change, but it seems that at every opportunity they are ignoring simplicity and choosing complexity.

Case in point is this variation of the 3 up rule 'we are not going to restrict keepers from going up the field', but we'll just add more complexity to make it unlikely.

There are a load of simple tweaks that could be made, the 2 pointer appears popular with the media and committee members, it's the most disliked change on here and it's seen as too cheap by many others I talk to. Simple change would be to make it from play only.

This new midfield mark rule seems unpoliceable, retention of the incredibly generous forward mark again seems like a mistake.

Unfortunately, this season is a write-off and really unfortunately, that may well undermine the retention of these rules when Congress decides next October. Not that I'm even sure I want any of them at this point!

I wish a longer, more gradual approach had been taken by FRC. This is an experiment. Any decent scientist will change only one thing at a time to see what works. The FRC have made 7+ changes and it's a mess.
Start with 3 v 3 in each half. See if that has an impact. Maybe go 4 v 4 if needed.
It would be a tweak rather than inventing a new game.

That would have been ideal, unfortunately the moaning by managers and other vested interests each time there's a rule change means new rules can only be introduced every 5 years - therefore the incremental approach could take 20 years to reach its conclusion!!

Best performance in almost a year?

So much better than last week, really unlucky today, couldn't win a ball the last 10 mins - for the glass move on the sideline, keeping the ball in play, to result in a Donegal goal just typifies the luck we've been having.
And as mario says, breaking balls just weren't going out way, maybe cos we're not used to fighting for them?

It seemed to me that the wind really picked up the last 10 too?

Hoping nothing too serious with all the lads who exited early, all were important contributors today. Sickening defeat, but for me the best performance  since the league final.