A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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general_lee

Basically convincing themselves that a UI is never going to happen is their way of "selling the union".

armaghniac

Quote from: general_lee on September 20, 2022, 05:42:21 PM
Basically convincing themselves that a UI is never going to happen is their way of "selling the union".

It is a bit like the smoking ban, people convinced themselves that they would always be able to smoke in a pub.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

AustinPowers

A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.

seafoid

Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.
https://youtu.be/eY2FgX6dhCc
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Eamonnca1

Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.

I remember one time the then Prince Charles visited the north. Loyalists were out in the street trying to wave at the car going past, all wrapped up in union jacks and union jack clothing, jumping, smiling and cheering in the street when he went past like it was the greatest day of their lives.

F*****g weird.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2022, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.

I remember one time the then Prince Charles visited the north. Loyalists were out in the street trying to wave at the car going past, all wrapped up in union jacks and union jack clothing, jumping, smiling and cheering in the street when he went past like it was the greatest day of their lives.

F*****g weird.

I know it's weird that a group of people will wave flags and cheer on a prince/monarch and another group who don't.

Be much better if everyone in the world would catch themselves on.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

michaelg

Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.
The same argument could be made in reverse.  10,000 pished up folk singing Ooh Aah Up the Ra in Falls Park springs to mind.

Do you not accept that Unionists in Northern Ireland have a British identity?  Republicans telling them that are not not is not going to really win hearts and minds in any debate around a UI.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: michaelg on September 20, 2022, 11:04:56 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.
The same argument could be made in reverse.  10,000 pished up folk singing Ooh Aah Up the Ra in Falls Park springs to mind.

Do you not accept that Unionists in Northern Ireland have a British identity?  Republicans telling them that are not not is not going to really win hearts and minds in any debate around a UI.

Could it? Any time Michael D goes to visit the north I don't think you'll see many fenians out in the street wrapped up in tricolours with faces painted green white and orange, jumping about and saying "this place is on the island of Ireland, you know" every five minutes.

I think nationalists are much more comfortable in their Irish identity and don't feel the need to flaunt it as hard as the unionists do with theirs.

Can't fly the tricolour from City Hall every day of the year? Nationalists be like "oh well, we'd better get on with fixing the potholes then."

Can't fly the jack from City Hall every day of the year? Unionists be like "This is an attack on my identity! Grrrr! If I don't get to see that flag every day on a public building then it diminishes my Britishness! Let's get out onto the street, wreck the place in protest, and we'll blame SF/IRA for making us do it! No surrender! "

johnnycool

Quote from: michaelg on September 20, 2022, 11:04:56 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.
The same argument could be made in reverse.  10,000 pished up folk singing Ooh Aah Up the Ra in Falls Park springs to mind.

Do you not accept that Unionists in Northern Ireland have a British identity?  Republicans telling them that are not not is not going to really win hearts and minds in any debate around a UI.
Nobody is denying Unionism their British identity, heck the place is awash with it from the names of the Belfast bridges, roads etc etc but you can't say the same about the concerted attacks and denial of Irish identity by political Unionism.

The flag protest at Belfast City hall was purely to bring the days the Union Jack were flown in line with the government legislation used in government buildings such as Stormont and the likes but was twisted as something different.

imtommygunn

That's something that gets me a bit. There is a line spun that the British culture is being denied because the union jack is *only* flown on designated days like everywhere else as opposed to every day and because a very very small percentage of parades are not allowed when the number of parades have grown anyway so there are probably more than there ever were!

I honestly don't see that anyone is denying you a right to have a british culture michaelg. I just don't see it.

I don't know if you intertwine orangeism and the british culture together too but the hanging effigies of nationalist politicians and then that being on display at family events has to stop. The culture could exist no problem and tbh I don't even care about the tricolours on the bonfires as union jacks find the same fate but that kind of thing has to stop and until it does no acceptance should be expected.


grounded

#3670
Quote from: michaelg on September 20, 2022, 11:04:56 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.
The same argument could be made in reverse.  10,000 pished up folk singing Ooh Aah Up the Ra in Falls Park springs to mind.

Do you not accept that Unionists in Northern Ireland have a British identity?  Republicans telling them that are not not is not going to really win hearts and minds in any debate around a UI.

Ah Michael, the old chesnut one side is as bad as the other.
           A scenic drive down from Newry to Newcastle by a tourist would soon dispel that myth. 
            Coming into Newry from the Belfast/Armagh road you'd swear it was a loyalist town with all the flags and paraphernalia up year round. You'd see the odd tricolour around Newry at Easter but apart from that you'd be hard pressed to find  any visible presence of Nationalism.
             Head on down to Warrenpoint, Rostrevor and Killowen and its the same story story. Then entering the town of Kilkeel (what a treat your eyes are in for). Union jacks, UVF, Para and YCV flags adorn every lampost going. Im sure the tourists are just enamored.
             A quick spin out the road takes you to Ballymartin(again loyalists flags coming into the small Nationalist village) and then onto the town of Annalong which has slighly higher ratio of Union Jacks to UVF flags than Kilkeel( as its a wee bit more upmarkety).
            Head on out the road to the more mixed tourist town of Newcastle and  very few flags of any description. The tourists seem to flock to Newcastle, Warrenpoint and Rostrevor, very little to Annalong and not at all Kilkeel.
            They all have beautiful scenery, with the ferry coming from greenore they should be booming. Why are they not Michael?
           

general_lee

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 20, 2022, 10:59:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 20, 2022, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.

I remember one time the then Prince Charles visited the north. Loyalists were out in the street trying to wave at the car going past, all wrapped up in union jacks and union jack clothing, jumping, smiling and cheering in the street when he went past like it was the greatest day of their lives.

F*****g weird.

I know it's weird that a group of people will wave flags and cheer on a prince/monarch and another group who don't.

Be much better if everyone in the world would catch themselves on.
It's weird when people, especially working class people, many of whom haven't a pot to piss in, wave flags and cheer on unelected head of state millionaires. It's even weirder when they claim to be socialists! It actually would be much better if everyone living in monarchies caught themselves on!

Snapchap

#3672
Quote from: michaelg on September 20, 2022, 11:04:56 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on September 20, 2022, 07:22:23 PM
A lot of unionists seem to  go  "all out" to prove   their loyalty,  attachment etc to Britain at every available opportunity.  A royal visit/event ,  the 12th, team GB Olympic team etc . Anything that has a  crown or Union Jack attached , they go Over the top

It's like they  have to prove to  Britain, to northern nationalists, and mostly , themselves ..that  they are so British, so loyal to Britain , the crown and  anything remotely   British.
The same argument could be made in reverse.  10,000 pished up folk singing Ooh Aah Up the Ra in Falls Park springs to mind.

Do you not accept that Unionists in Northern Ireland have a British identity?  Republicans telling them that are not not is not going to really win hearts and minds in any debate around a UI.

A sing song is not the same as the identity insecurity we see from unionism. As others have pointed out, anywhere that's even close to majority unionist, is automatically bedecked in red, white and blue paint and flegs all year round. The same insecurity and clinging to symbols of culture isn't the case in Nationalist areas. And that's in a state that has historically tried to erase overt symbols of Irishness. To quote Conor Murphy: "The DUP say that even giving Irish speakers basic rights would lead to cultural domination. I reflect on that sometimes as I drive up to Stormont, over Queen Elizabeth Bridge, along the Prince of Wales Avenue, past the statue of Carson, into a the building with Britannia written on the roof, many days under two union flags, park next to where Craig is buried and then I see Craigavon's statue at the top of the stairs. I think to myself: we really must do more to reflect Unionist culture in this place."

armaghniac

Quote from: michaelg on September 20, 2022, 11:04:56 PM

The same argument could be made in reverse.  10,000 pished up folk singing Ooh Aah Up the Ra in Falls Park springs to mind.

Do you not accept that Unionists in Northern Ireland have a British identity?  Republicans telling them that are not not is not going to really win hearts and minds in any debate around a UI.
.

People at concerts sing at sorts of stuff "way oh" and the like.Excessive analysis of such things is pointless.

As fir unionists having a British identity, nobody objects to that.what people object to is them declaring the place to be British and getting the British Army to intimidate everyone else much as some people who identify as Russian are doing in Ukraine at present.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Rossfan

Not to mention trying to intimidate people who identify as  Irish into observing a British Bank Holiday for the British Monarch's funeral.
I'm sure those British people who live in loads of Independent Countries around the World can still be British without having the Country they live in ruled by Westminster.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM