A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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armaghniac

Quote from: imtommygunn on January 25, 2016, 10:03:38 PM
Not quite the same but similar could be said about loyalists and st patricks day tony.

Another spurious equivalence. Loyalists generally purport to be Christians, so St Patrick's day is not in the same category, especially as he came from Britain.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

T Fearon

Look,if there was never another parade,from any group,here I wouldn't complain.I have never felt the need to parade to assert my religious,cultural,hetrosexual leanings,and I guess most people here feel the same.

By the way doesn't the Orange Order claim that the Battle of the Boyne was a victory for civil and religious liberty for all?

No wides

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2016, 10:20:25 PM
Look,if there was never another parade,from any group,here I wouldn't complain.I have never felt the need to parade to assert my religious,cultural,hetrosexual leanings,and I guess most people here feel the same.

By the way doesn't the Orange Order claim that the Battle of the Boyne was a victory for civil and religious liberty for all?


Ah that's why they get funding to build bonfires, burn effigies of the Pope, burn tricolours, taunt nationalists whilst marching, burn tyres etc. all openly and without fear of arrest

Applesisapples

Quote from: T Fearon on January 25, 2016, 07:24:22 PM
There is a growing cross community interest and participation in things like Irish Dancing as well.Once you get rid or diminish the odious activities that divides people,anything is possible.
Culturally Irish not exclusively Northern Irish.

Applesisapples

Reading through the posts here one thing is abundantly clear. Nationalists can't even agree on a discussion forum whether a UI is feasible, desirable or likely to come about. It is also quite clear that despite Tony's wish that it could be different there are two defined narratives, identities and cultures in the North one inherently Irish, the other claiming to be British but which in actual fact is regional and confined almost exclusively to the six counties. The fear  in loyalist communities at present is not about the end of the union but the reality that they are now a minority albeit the biggest minority currently in NI but the days of a catholic majority is a lot closer than a UI and with it will come the clamour for more equality fewer flegs and the spread of Irishness. The threat to the union lies there in as loyalism fades and common cause with the ROI leads to closer cooperation then unity is inevitable. How long it will take depends on the approach of the SDLP and SF in leadership of their respective supporters. Unfortunately from a nationalist perspective the SDLP seem quite happy with the status quo and SF have not really shown any vision of how this united country might shape up. There is no consensus with in nationalism and SF can't quite drop the socialist republic which just won't wash with the voters...outside of some working class ghettos or should we say benefit's class ghettos no one actually wants it. It is time for a national conference or discussion to forge a vision that all so called nationalist parties north and south can subscribe to. But don't hold your breath.

general_lee

The thing is, in any UI SF could well become obsolete...

Too much apathy among nationalist background voters for either SDLP or SF to make any serious assault on a UI, even if they had any serious intentions of doing so in the very near future. People are happy with their lot, take the whole "I don't vote cos the politicians are all useless" approach but then wonder why nothing gets down and why we are getting raped by the Eton old boys.

I think SF have run a few token events discussing unification but an all party approach would be a good idea to at least get some sort of consensus for nationalists

T Fearon

Apples biggest barrier to a UI is the Dublin Govt who dont want it under any circumstances.I am unconvinced about the benefits of Unity.The North has largely been reformed.Were not the border counties largely ignored by successive Dublin governments.A similar fate awaits us in the North.

winghalfback

I think so very valid points have been made reading through the last few pages. I this it has already been pointed out but it is glaring all be it on a very small scale how split the nationalist opinion is. A lot on here want an Eire Nua but don't know how it will look others are happy with their lot. I feel some people are anti UI because SF are leading the charge towards it, all be it someone has to take up the mantle and lead it. I do believe an all party board will have to be set up to deliver the kind of Ireland we want. No one knows what the future holds,  no one knows what kind of Ireland we will have but we have to talk about it it has to be an open discussion between all sides and parties. I feel it is inevitable it will happen it's just a matter of when. I is going to be a massive change for everyone but to put a few points out there for consumption of thought.
Who said government had to be in Dublin?
Who said SF would be the leading charge com the time of an UI referendum?
Why would it not be possible for so called Unionist parties not to be in power?
Why would it be a case that there would be less money available?
Would the UK leaving Europe speed up or slow the process towards the road to Eire Nua?


I just personally think everyone needs to be looking at this with a broader mind frame.

T Fearon

Nationalist opinion is split simply due to the fact that a substantial majority North and South (does Irish Nationalism even exist in any significant way in the 26 counties?), does not actually want a United Ireland.In the North,one of the main nationalist parties Westminster members swear oaths of allegiance to the Queen.That is incompatible with a desire for a United Ireland.

Rossfan

Quote from: T Fearon on January 26, 2016, 06:15:42 PM
.In the North,one of the main nationalist parties Westminster members swear oaths of allegiance to the Queen.That is incompatible with a desire for a United Ireland.
Maybe they want a United Ireland under the British Crown :o
I'd say the main view in the 26 is that we'll wait till a majority in the North wants a U I and sure then we'll see how we can accomodate the whingy whiny bickering hoors.
Meanwhile we'll get on with the economic recovery and wish the Nordies would try and get an economy.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

T Fearon

And that is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes

Rossfan

Quote from: T Fearon on January 26, 2016, 06:49:56 PM
And that is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes
THe North not getting an economy??
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

T Fearon

Yes and your willingness to accommodate us!

michaelg

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 26, 2016, 11:03:51 AM
Reading through the posts here one thing is abundantly clear. Nationalists can't even agree on a discussion forum whether a UI is feasible, desirable or likely to come about. It is also quite clear that despite Tony's wish that it could be different there are two defined narratives, identities and cultures in the North one inherently Irish, the other claiming to be British but which in actual fact is regional and confined almost exclusively to the six counties. The fear  in loyalist communities at present is not about the end of the union but the reality that they are now a minority albeit the biggest minority currently in NI but the days of a catholic majority is a lot closer than a UI and with it will come the clamour for more equality fewer flegs and the spread of Irishness. The threat to the union lies there in as loyalism fades and common cause with the ROI leads to closer cooperation then unity is inevitable. How long it will take depends on the approach of the SDLP and SF in leadership of their respective supporters. Unfortunately from a nationalist perspective the SDLP seem quite happy with the status quo and SF have not really shown any vision of how this united country might shape up. There is no consensus with in nationalism and SF can't quite drop the socialist republic which just won't wash with the voters...outside of some working class ghettos or should we say benefit's class ghettos no one actually wants it. It is time for a national conference or discussion to forge a vision that all so called nationalist parties north and south can subscribe to. But don't hold your breath.
What an arrogant post.  With this sort of attitude you will be a long time persuading Unionists that their best interests lie in a UI.

andoireabu

@ michaelg

If there was to be a New Ireland, what would have to be in it before you would consider voting yes? (I'm assuming you wouldn't at present so forgive me if I am wrong).  Interesting to get a different perspective on it.
Private Cowboy: Don't shit me, man!
Private Joker: I wouldn't shit you. You're my favorite turd!