Will you vote for Fianna Fail?

[muppet]

So, Mícheál Martin is the most popular leader in the land (according to the latest opinion poll). Something I'd never have thought. Will FF join FG in a coalition after the GE if the numbers stack up I wonder?

That is classic media misinterpretation of a poll.

Enda Kenny was also the 'most popular' in opposition at various times, without ever being popular. I would suggest Martin is currently enjoying a bounce as 'least relevant' leader, (as Kenny did) and our beloved hacks still don't get the diffrence.

[Canalman]

Think the recent hearings (if that is the correct term) funnily enough helped Fianna Fail. Humanized the main players at the time and to be perfectly honest we in Ireland were and will always in the future suffer in a Global depression (make no bones about it it was a Depression).

Alot of FF inclined people will come back to the fold in time. Some will stay with Sinn Fein which is basically FF as it was in the 1920s and 1930s.

For an island with no land link to a continent and no natural resources to really boast about bar a good climate for agriculture  (and our fishing waters we signed away) we imo anyway are doing ok................ not great but not badly either.

[magpie seanie]

Yeah, like armaghniac says, there are two separate issues:

- one is the policies which lead to the bubble, the blame for which I would lay squarely at the feet of FF as a party. Others may have had similar policies but the bottom line is that FF were in govt and it was their policies which helped create the bubble. That corrupt f*cker Bertie and his cronies are 100% culpable for this

- second is the decision on the night of the bank guarantee - firstly to guarantee Anglo & NIB and secondly to guarantee unsecured bondholders (although the pressure on this second part likely came from Europe). Cowen / Lenihan took a gamble that this would work out and it backfired completely

You've split the first point into two separate issues.
- Corruption/croneyism - where more of them should have gone to jail, or personally I think hitting them in the pocket would hurt them more, as that was their motivation. Hit them hard with fines and penalties and take away their govt pensions

- In running the economy, they absolutely did no different than any other party would have done. Never once did an opposition TD respond after a budget saying, we should increase taxes and/or reduce spending - in fact to a man/woman I'd say they all said the oppositive - you could have reduced more taxes, you could have spent more.

The only two "outside of the box" policies they came up with (that I can think of) were the National Pension Reserve Fund and the Decentralisation. NPRF was a good idea that was met with more groans than applause, but at least they stuck with it and pushed it through.

Decentralisation was a great idea to try and avoid the boom being too Dublin-centric. Things wouldnt have got quite so bad in provincial towns up and down the country if they'd had the backbone to go against the unions (and every other political party who rowed in with the unions) and implement it.

Excellent post Hound. The one policy difference that I think made things appreciably worse and one which I do not believe any of the other parties would have done to the same extent was throwing petrol on the flames of the property market so they could get re-elected. At the time there were signs of a bit of a slowdown but of course this wasn't to be countenanced in an election year so they introduced plenty of property market related stimuli to keep the bucks in the tent in Galway rolling along. It was reckless and made things a lot worse than it needed to be. Maybe not so much a policy difference as a tactic but that's my take.

It's a terrible shame the decentralisation wasn't done properly. It was perhaps the last chance at making the country less Dublin centric which would actually have helped people in the Dublin area as well as nationwide.

[magpie seanie]

Think the recent hearings (if that is the correct term) funnily enough helped Fianna Fail. Humanized the main players at the time and to be perfectly honest we in Ireland were and will always in the future suffer in a Global depression (make no bones about it it was a Depression).

Alot of FF inclined people will come back to the fold in time. Some will stay with Sinn Fein which is basically FF as it was in the 1920s and 1930s.

For an island with no land link to a continent and no natural resources to really boast about bar a good climate for agriculture  (and our fishing waters we signed away) we imo anyway are doing ok................ not great but not badly either.

I think you're right. There must have been nerves in FF, especially when Bartholemew was testifying, but it seems to have gone well for them.

I disagree with the last bit. I think we had some natural resources, signed them away for nothing and are in a position of dependency that is hard to see changing. No forward planning ever in this country.

[macdanger2]

It's a terrible shame the decentralisation wasn't done properly. It was perhaps the last chance at making the country less Dublin centric which would actually have helped people in the Dublin area as well as nationwide.

100% agree on this. It's hard to believe no party has any sort of a regionalisation policy at a time when house prices in Dublin are soaring, traffic congestion is getting worse and the water supply is running out. Promoting the other cities and one or two large towns as niche business centres would help ease the pressure on Dublin

[AZOffaly]

Was the problem with decentralisation not primarily that people didn't want to uproot themselves and their families? It's hard to say you should force people to either leave their jobs or uproot and move to Castlebar.

[muppet]

Was the problem with decentralisation not primarily that people didn't want to uproot themselves and their families? It's hard to say you should force people to either leave their jobs or uproot and move to Castlebar.

I know this isn't quite the topic, but I might as well say it.

Regarding the last comment, whatever about your job moving to a town down the country, what about the homeless? Do they HAVE to be in Dublin? There are ghost estates that will never be occupied in small towns around Connacht and I'm sure around the whole country. These can be picked up for buttons, in comparison with building new housing in Dublin.

[Stall the Bailer]

Was the problem with decentralisation not primarily that people didn't want to uproot themselves and their families? It's hard to say you should force people to either leave their jobs or uproot and move to Castlebar.

There is no reason that all new positions couldn't be in a regional town/city and with a natural attrition rate the numbers in Dublin would eventually fall.

[AZOffaly]

Logistically that would be hard to manage I'd imagine. The new lads come in and join a satellite office in Limerick, while the bulk of them stay up in Dublin, and then you wean from one to the other over 20 years or so. Expensive too I'd say, although maybe not when you factor in not having to pay relocation fees for employees.

[Tubberman]

Was the problem with decentralisation not primarily that people didn't want to uproot themselves and their families? It's hard to say you should force people to either leave their jobs or uproot and move to Castlebar.

I know this isn't quite the topic, but I might as well say it.

Regarding the last comment, whatever about your job moving to a town down the country, what about the homeless? Do they HAVE to be in Dublin? There are ghost estates that will never be occupied in small towns around Connacht and I'm sure around the whole country. These can be picked up for buttons, in comparison with building new housing in Dublin.

As the old Dubliner's song goes they want "a house near me Ma's". It's terribly un-PC to suggest that they can be relocated somewhere else, even if they are being provided with housing free for nothing.

[muppet]

Was the problem with decentralisation not primarily that people didn't want to uproot themselves and their families? It's hard to say you should force people to either leave their jobs or uproot and move to Castlebar.

I know this isn't quite the topic, but I might as well say it.

Regarding the last comment, whatever about your job moving to a town down the country, what about the homeless? Do they HAVE to be in Dublin? There are ghost estates that will never be occupied in small towns around Connacht and I'm sure around the whole country. These can be picked up for buttons, in comparison with building new housing in Dublin.

As the old Dubliner's song goes they want "a house near me Ma's". It's terribly un-PC to suggest that they can be relocated somewhere else, even if they are being provided with housing free for nothing.

Being homeless is even less PC.

Here is the choice, we have a house for you in Granard or <insert town>, or stay homeless. Which will it be?

[armaghniac]

Here is the choice, we have a house for you in Granard or <insert town>, or stay homeless. Which will it be?

I think it has to be <insert town> in that case.

[Lone Shark]

For me, decentralisation could have worked if it wasn't used as a vote-buying pawn. Irish political reality dictated that every town with a population of 5000 people or more had to get something, with at least one or two towns getting a few departments in every constituency. That made it completely impractical as you had people going from city life to real small towns that in many cases, didn't even have so much as a supermarket. What's more, if you were a married couple with two civil service jobs in Dublin, you could be sent to Letterkenny and Thurles, which is hardly practical.

On the other hand, if they tried to create a genuine counterbalance by say, taking a huge chunk of the administration out of Dublin, but moving it to Limerick and Galway only - now you have something. You have two cities on the opposite side of the country that are reasonably well connected by road and rail, served by an airport (two at the time), plenty of third level opportunities, and close enough together that if you are a couple and you get split between the two, living in Gort or Crusheen is eminently realistic either. You have rail and motorway links between the two, and plenty of scope for expansion in both cities - admittedly it would have to be managed a bit better in Galway.

Even if you were one half of a couple and your partner was private sector, it still would make a lot more sense in that the civil servant managed to a qualified solicitor, IT technician, retail manager or whatever could still think about moving because there would still be employment opportunities for their partner - certainly far more than there would be in Birr or Ballina.

Of course there would be people who still wouldn't want to move, but take up would have been a lot higher, enough to make it realistic.

[Billys Boots]

Here is the choice, we have a house for you in Granard or <insert town>, or stay homeless. Which will it be?

Hobson's choice there, I think. 

[Hardy]

Here is the choice, we have a house for you in Granard or <insert town>, or stay homeless. Which will it be?

Hobson's choice there, I think. 

Definitely <insert town> for me.