Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[RedandGreenSniper]

I cant understand people putting Tom Cunniffe on their team when he has hardly played two games at any level in the past year. Strange!

Mark my words, he'll be centre-half back v Sligo. Not saying I agree with that - I don't, I would have Vaughan or Conroy there or maybe even Cafferkey - but JOM rates him for that position. I do think he has a lot to offer as a wing-back but nowhere else. I know you don't rate him Abbeysider but I'd have him up there with Gardiner battling for five with Vaughan inside. But the championship half-back line will be - Vaughan - Cunniffe - McLoughlin.
...

Ya, i agree that Cunniffe will start at number 6, he played well there for last years league and the u21s a few years ago but I'd have to agree, wing back would suit him alot more so.

Im willing to give the guy a chance, but I think its suicide playing someone that has played only two club games in the past year and expect him to be able to play centre back for Mayo come championship, when he has not had a minute of inter-county football this year AFAIA. The guy was in college in England and had no football.

In fact, its even crazier than bringing back BJP onto the panel, who has dont very little of note either.

Vaughan, Cafferkey, Conroy and even Howley would be ahead of Cunniffe in my book - only because of the lack of match practice and Cunniffe being unproven at senior level - yet.

I heard he wasnt the best at the weekend against Breaffy, but in fairness what was Ford thinking putting him centre forward? Was he being accommodated? Is Eoin O Reilly seen as a better Centre Back for Mitchels?

Were you at the game R&GS? Do I ask too many questions? 

On Mitchels, I'd say they're easing him back into it but that's a bit of a guess. He was good in the first fifteen minutes at centre-half forward but then went out of the game badly. I would have Vaughan, Conroy and Cafferkey ahead of Cunniffe for centre-back, but not Howley. As I said, I wouldn't have him there myself. But I think he'll be picked there if he shows even a semblance of form.

[muppet]

If fully fit I think Tom Cunniffe is our best option to try at CHB.

I agree fully with those that say he hasn't the game time - but some change is needed. I don't think Vaughan is domniant enough for the position. In fact I don't really think we have any good candidates for the position. He will start there though. And will be flanked by Vaughan and Gardiner whatever we might think - the manager is a big Gardiner fan and named him vice-captain - if fit he will start. Its hard to get the team than on!

But this problem of players only coming along for the championship ride isn't a new one - last year we had Trevor Howley, David Heaney, Kilcoyne and Barry Moran all in the championship team come the Summer without any hard winter work. It does show, and even though some of them are our best options they will be off the pace.

The League Final probably means the end of this current set-up unless something dramatic happens during the Summer. We are not All Ireland winning material but we are certainly in a position to put up a better fight. Unless something dramatic happens the results v Galway, v Derry in year 1; the inability to finish off Tyrone in year 2; the defeat to Meath last year; and the thrashing by Cork this year is evidence of a consistent trend and it can be ignored and we can stay the same or politics can be put to the side, a change made, and maybe we can get out best options on the pitch for a championship battle. Right now a win v Sligo looks like the only possible high this Summer. Galway will beat us and after that it will be the luck of the draw but any half-decent team will push us over the edge.

Galway just scraped past New York. We made the league final.

If we got past Sligo why would we be afraid of Galway?

[AbbeySider]

But this problem of players only coming along for the championship ride isn't a new one - last year we had Trevor Howley, David Heaney, Kilcoyne and Barry Moran all in the championship team come the Summer without any hard winter work. It does show, and even though some of them are our best options they will be off the pace.

This might be controversial but I would add Keith Higgins to that list for this year.
He isnt half the player he was since he came back from Oz.
In fact, I think he was only having mediocre season before he got injured, compared to the flair he used to show. 

[SLIGONIAN]

Jees lads completely different team selections by everyone of ye, after a full league campaign. How is Kevin Walsh supposed to prepare for this game when he wont have a clue what mayo team will line out on June 5th?

Dont be afraid to debate this on sligo v mayo thread ,

[Foreverhopeful]

Trev Mort for 6. We all know he will start.
He can't play in forwards so why don't we put the player who is lauded for his "spoiling" tactics rather than his shooting/kick-passing ability somewhere where the spoiling tactics work!

GAA can be a simple game lads. Why are playing someone who ticks a lot of the boxes in defensive attributes column, yet hardly scores well on his offensive column in our forwards.... Thats the team down 2-4 pts already because we know he won't contribute much in that regard. Play Alan Dillon twelve... Thats his position -  not 11.

Trev Howley should be benched for Sligo and made compete for no. 2/4 jersey. Chris Barrett will mark McGee and Higgins to pick up David Kelly ( 2 fastest players in Connacht?!) McLoughlin has to start primarily because he was the only player who showed any composure in Croker. He has a footballing brain. D Vaughan/ P Gardiner... I like Vaughan but i also think Gardiner has been very under-rared for Mayo in his career. He does a similar job to Davy Harte but without the recognition. I think Gardiner will start because of his experience.

I do like Tom Cunniffe. He was pace to burn and that has to be utilized. Don't know where exactly is the best position for him -  maybe full back against the quicker full-forwards?

Clarke should be Mayo's captain by the way...JOM has a shocking record of picking captains in Mayo. Kev O'neill when not guaranteed starter, McGarrity (only back from serious illness and didn't need that) and Trev ( injury-prone and now not a guaranteed starter). Clarke is a good talker on the pitch, doesn't bullshit the press, guaranteed his place for years to come and has a great attitude. He has been very consistent for Mayo. 

[Zulu]

Much happier to be at our homebase here where we can bitch amongst ourselves, not have supporters of other teams tell us how crap we are (despite the fact that we get results that they could only dream of) and have ourselves written up as delusional Sam seekers who do nothing but tell the country that we are going to win the All Ireland this year and every year. Lazy analysis taken from lazy journalists.

Is that not a cheap shot? I can only speak for myself but I don't think I have ever said anything that I didn't feel to be true and I've tried top rationalize my opinions and defend them reasonably. I think most other non-Mayo posters did the same. It isn't a good sign of a county if you feel the need to block out the rest of the world and dismiss the views of others as those of jealous outsiders. There are real problems in Mayo football and you are not producing footballers of the necessary quality, hard questions need to be asked and though I have a lot of respect for the majority of the Mayo lads who post here if ye'd prefer to lock yourselves away behind your boarders and blame manager after manager then you might find the search for Sam go on for much longer.

I'm not suggesting, by the way, that posters like myself have the answer or anything but the opinions of those coming at the problem from a different perspective can often highlight issues that people closer to the coalface fail to see sometimes.

I and I m sure a lot of Mayo posters would agree that we are off the pace as regards winning an AI any time soon. What bothers me though is when we are unhappy with a certain display or selections, outsiders tell us we re lucky to have such a fine manager and he s doing quite well with the limitations at his disposal.
Some of us have been asking the hard questions. For a long time.
Most counties are not producing the necessary quality. Cork happen to have arrived in a good place again after 20 years. Success is largely down to several quality players emerging around the same time. It s happened in places like Tyrone and Armagh. It happens in Kerry more often than anywhere else. It happened in Donegal and Derry too. They would have had the formula if there was a formula as well. Another Downey, Twohill, Brolly off the production line please there. Did nt happen for them again.
Sure we blame managers. They re the guys flyin the plane and they've gone down in The Hudson a few times. From Johnno mark1 through Maughan, Holmes and Johnno again there have been some desperate calls. One AI at least, was left behind by management. They are entitled to our wrath.
  Johnno's treatment of the senior players since his return has not been pleasant and has n t been profitable either. He s broken eggs but failed to make an omlette. And on our latest crash and burn, it should be remembered that Johnno was playing with his own deck of cards. That s what he put together. He must be judged on that.
His supporters will argue that he was going with the best available. But that is not the case. As I ve said before we re going around in circles on this one.
The fact that our search for Sam has gone on so long and may go on as long again is nothing to do with us posters. The blazers that are running the show dont listen to anybody. I m not sure Sam is even on their agenda. They re all too busy minding their own little fiefdoms and making sure nobody is put in charge of a team that will break any moulds. We re a conservative county run by conservative men. And judging by attendances at games this year the punter in Mayo has got the message and moved on. They ve been told to mind their own business and they have.

Nobody is saying he is faultless and I appreciate that most of you don't expect to win an AI but he did guide you to a league final when many were predicting relegation and you are reigning Connacht champions. Therefore I think it is fair to say the man hasn't done too badly. Obviously he can't just wash his hands of certain performances but I feel that many of you are blaming him and leaving the players off scot free.

You also question whether certain counties have produced quality players since their AI successes, well I think they have, just not in the numbers required. Derry for example have produced the two Bradley's, Sean Marty and James Kielt and they are doing that without much help from Derry city and a sizeable Protestant population. Mayo produce loads of decent IC footballers but very few exceptional ones, at least in the past 20-30 years and that is shocking for a county with your population and passion for football.

I'm not saying JOM is the man to lead Mayo but I do feel that Mayo may need to look at their whole system because their is no reason why Kerry should regularly produce quality players and Mayo should not.

[moysider]

There are at least quality players in this years minors. Wouldn't put my house on them going to another - or rather being brought to another level. I believe the clubs and the colleges are doing their job at underage but it's when they are handed on that the problems start. Like I ve said already Aidan O Sé just has a jersey hung on him it appears. I ve a feeling that if likes of Jack O Connor had got a hold of Parsons a few years ago he d be well ahead of where he is now. I d wonder too what would have become of Pierce Hanley. Would he have gone backwards too. More than likely imo. I d argue that we produce plenty of quality, its the processing that is the problem.

[Farrandeelin]

Zulu, O'Mahony brought us to a league final. And we got absolutely tanked. I cannot find any solace from that. And that is a valid point about the underage structure in the county that moysider stated.

[rosnarun]

if mayo are failing to bring players on the about 18 other counties are failing desperately .
Losing national final feels and as your weakness' are exposed to the country But id take that any day than quietly Exiting competitions early on with nary a whimper .
Living in offaly i can see what was once a proud county losing faith and  hope in the senior team and indeed for much ot the county interest. that is repeat in poorly performing counties all over the country.
It is probably one of the few benefits of a Celebrity manager that he can revive the hope expectation in a team even for a little while but encourages all the best players to keep turning out.

[Foreverhopeful]

Trev Mort for 6. We all know he will start.
He can't play in forwards so why don't we put the player who is lauded for his "spoiling" tactics rather than his shooting/kick-passing ability somewhere where the spoiling tactics work!

GAA can be a simple game lads. Why are playing someone who ticks a lot of the boxes in defensive attributes column, yet hardly scores well on his offensive column in our forwards.... Thats the team down 2-4 pts already because we know he won't contribute much in that regard. Play Alan Dillon twelve... Thats his position -  not 11.

Trev Howley should be benched for Sligo and made compete for no. 2/4 jersey. Chris Barrett will mark McGee and Higgins to pick up David Kelly ( 2 fastest players in Connacht?!) McLoughlin has to start primarily because he was the only player who showed any composure in Croker. He has a footballing brain. D Vaughan/ P Gardiner... I like Vaughan but i also think Gardiner has been very under-rared for Mayo in his career. He does a similar job to Davy Harte but without the recognition. I think Gardiner will start because of his experience.

I do like Tom Cunniffe. He was pace to burn and that has to be utilized. Don't know where exactly is the best position for him -  maybe full back against the quicker full-forwards?

Clarke should be Mayo's captain by the way...JOM has a shocking record of picking captains in Mayo. Kev O'neill when not guaranteed starter, McGarrity (only back from serious illness and didn't need that) and Trev ( injury-prone and now not a guaranteed starter). Clarke is a good talker on the pitch, doesn't bullshit the press, guaranteed his place for years to come and has a great attitude. He has been very consistent for Mayo.

[Foreverhopeful]

Lads did the likes of Ken Mortimer, Noel Connelly, James Horan, Kevin Cahill retire too soon?  Was just thinking about the teams of 96, 97 and then the team of 2004 and there wasn't a huge overlap.. 7-8 year difference but you see Dara O'Se winning his first in 97 and his last in 09 - a 12 year gap and he had a huge amount of miles on the clock. Maybe i'm wrong but even the 2001 NFL winning team was very different in a very short space of time.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Lads did the likes of Ken Mortimer, Noel Connelly, James Horan, Kevin Cahill retire too soon?  Was just thinking about the teams of 96, 97 and then the team of 2004 and there wasn't a huge overlap.. 7-8 year difference but you see Dara O'Se winning his first in 97 and his last in 09 - a 12 year gap and he had a huge amount of miles on the clock. Maybe i'm wrong but even the 2001 NFL winning team was very different in a very short space of time.

Whatever about retiring too young, those four are all very good examples of players who maybe we didn't get the most out of, for whatever reason. Kenneth Mortimer went from being an All Star corner back in 96 and 97 to centre-half forward in 1999, can anyone explain why this happened?
Connelly retired around 2002 which meant we got six years out of him. Didn't play underage with the county and it was to Maughan's credit that he spotted what he had to offer. His leadership qualities were immense. Why was he not in before 1996? He was 24 then IIRC.
Horan ad so much ability but I don't know if he played county past 2000 when he was sent off in Sligo. Didn't play much club football after that either. He arrived on the scene late - credit to Maughan again - and left a bit early.
Cahill also retired very early from Mayo. And we haven't replaced him yet.
But what links all four is 96 and 97. We can't overstate the effect that had on them. And, without perhaps themselves knowing it, the effect it had on the careers of Brady, Heaney and Nallen. An awful pity.

[Foreverhopeful]

true, losing 2 winnable `AI's in 2 years can't have been good for them... Just picked out them four... Prob another few aswell,

[moysider]

Lads did the likes of Ken Mortimer, Noel Connelly, James Horan, Kevin Cahill retire too soon?  Was just thinking about the teams of 96, 97 and then the team of 2004 and there wasn't a huge overlap.. 7-8 year difference but you see Dara O'Se winning his first in 97 and his last in 09 - a 12 year gap and he had a huge amount of miles on the clock. Maybe i'm wrong but even the 2001 NFL winning team was very different in a very short space of time.

You've opened a serious one here. How about Joe McGrath? An All Star that shined too briefly at a time when Mayo were a mess. His brother Des could play too. Michael Collins - played as a teenager in the 70 s, disappeared for his best years and reappeared in his thirties in 88/89. One of the best players I ve ever seen in Mayo. Then there was Gary Ruane. Maughan would probably have got over the line if he played him, and of course Peter Butler, in 96/97. Gary played in 95 but had to wait until Holmes was in charge to play again. Maughan was glad of him in his second term but crucially a lot his best years were spent on the bench. Brian Heffernan was another who could have made the crucial difference in 97 but wasn't trusted. This shit is not a recent phenomena either. By recent I mean last 25 years. Whatever you might think about Billy Fitz as a commentator he was a hell of a forward. Yet his appearances for the county were as rare as hen s teeth.

[rosnarun]

Lads did the likes of Ken Mortimer, Noel Connelly, James Horan, Kevin Cahill retire too soon?  Was just thinking about the teams of 96, 97 and then the team of 2004 and there wasn't a huge overlap.. 7-8 year difference but you see Dara O'Se winning his first in 97 and his last in 09 - a 12 year gap and he had a huge amount of miles on the clock. Maybe i'm wrong but even the 2001 NFL winning team was very different in a very short space of time.

You've opened a serious one here. How about Joe McGrath? An All Star that shined too briefly at a time when Mayo were a mess. His brother Des could play too. Michael Collins - played as a teenager in the 70 s, disappeared for his best years and reappeared in his thirties in 88/89. One of the best players I ve ever seen in Mayo. Then there was Gary Ruane. Maughan would probably have got over the line if he played him, and of course Peter Butler, in 96/97. Gary played in 95 but had to wait until Holmes was in charge to play again. Maughan was glad of him in his second term but crucially a lot his best years were spent on the bench. Brian Heffernan was another who could have made the crucial difference in 97 but wasn't trusted. This shit is not a recent phenomena either. By recent I mean last 25 years. Whatever you might think about Billy Fitz as a commentator he was a hell of a forward. Yet his appearances for the county were as rare as hen s teeth.

did des Mcgrath not tog out for mayo when he was nearly 40 before going on to a distinguished oveer 40's career?