Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[Zulu]

That type of stuff won't get Mayo anywhere. What's needed isn't so much a new trainer (though they should do that as well) but for the Mayo CB to devise (with people with the necessary expertise) a developmental plan to produce both athletes and footballers. All county teans from U16 to U21 should be prepared on the basis of development teams. In other words they are not primarily prepared to win the competitions they compete in but to provide the senior county team with properly rounded footballers.

If you think about it, a talented 17 year old makes the county minor panel and from then until he is 21 he will train, not to improve his weaknesses, both physical and footballingly, but to win trophies. And we then wonder why senior footballers can't kick a 30 yard pass or put the ball over the bar? And don't talk to me about goals most footballers couldn't score 70% of one on ones in training let alone games.

[RedandGreenSniper]

That type of stuff won't get Mayo anywhere. What's needed isn't so much a new trainer (though they should do that as well) but for the Mayo CB to devise (with people with the necessary expertise) a developmental plan to produce both athletes and footballers. All county teans from U16 to U21 should be prepared on the basis of development teams. In other words they are not primarily prepared to win the competitions they compete in but to provide the senior county team with properly rounded footballers.

If you think about it, a talented 17 year old makes the county minor panel and from then until he is 21 he will train, not to improve his weaknesses, both physical and footballingly, but to win trophies. And we then wonder why senior footballers can't kick a 30 yard pass or put the ball over the bar? And don't talk to me about goals most footballers couldn't score 70% of one on ones in training let alone games.

I agree fully. I think this rounded approach is needed. But I do think there is value in an odd 'dog' of a session. I don't mean laps and laps and laps. But a really intense session where lads are pushed to the limit and lads are carried over the line by their teammates. Interval sprints; long sprints, variations on shuttle runs etc. This type of thing goes on all the time but I do get the impression that the intensity is lacking. I probably didn't make myself clear earlier.

The Connacht Under 16 competition - the Ted Webb - has become much more development centred and not as centred on competition. That's key. Ray Dempsey looks for minor players that he thinks have the fortitude for senior careers. Skills are still an issue. I think that in two years we might see a turn in the road in that regard. I hope so anyway.

[REDCOL]

I have read with interest all the plaudits Ray Dempsey has been getting. A few questions - Is his record any better than Jp Keans for example. I was at every Minor match for the past three years bar the Quarter Final in Tullamore this year. I firmly believe he cost us this years all ireland. His insistence on promoting players from his own club had an adverse effect on the whole panel. Also playing Corduff in the full forward line until half time in the final was a joke. I wont even go into his treatment of players but man management is not his forte.

He has some good attributes but messiah think again.

[Farrandeelin]

I have read with interest all the plaudits Ray Dempsey has been getting. A few questions - Is his record any better than Jp Keans for example. I was at every Minor match for the past three years bar the Quarter Final in Tullamore this year. I firmly believe he cost us this years all ireland. His insistence on promoting players from his own club had an adverse effect on the whole panel. Also playing Corduff in the full forward line until half time in the final was a joke. I wont even go into his treatment of players but man management is not his forte.

He has some good attributes but messiah think again.

Joking surely, only Ruttledge managed to finish a game when he started...

[REDCOL]

It was like Lannigans Ball Ruttledge in, Ruttledge out Herbert In Herbert Out, Ruttledge In. One common theme Knockmore man on team plus Stadler on bench but never seen

[Foreverhopeful]

ya thats a fair point. There was obvious bias towards his own club. But you can't blame him for Daniel O"Hara's complete lack of a footballing brain in 08. Or aidan walsh missing a simple free or Jack Mcdonnell trying to be a glory hunter. They all playing football long enough not to make the mistakes they did. Thats why we're not all-ireland champions

[RedandGreenSniper]

Nonsense lads. In fairness to Dempsey he's above that sort of shite. I could point the finger at other managers who weren't. Herbert was started in a bid to allow Aidan Walsh play in the full-forward line. It didn't work but it was a solid premise. Ruttledge did well most of the time. Its far too easy to throw that bias line at a manager. I don't see it. Recol you're obviously angry that Brian Walsh didn't get a run and wasn't in the squad for the final. I know, and I expect, that didn't go down well in Garrymore.

EDIT: And who says he's the Messiah? He has done well at minor level and deserves a shot at the next level and is getting it. He has managed to produce teams with a bit of steel in them, that Mayo teams have been lacking. I think myself and a few more would rate him but he has done well and I'm not sure how anyone can suggest he LOST us an All-Ireland. For heaven's sake he got two average teams into finals!

[Farrandeelin]

It was like Lannigans Ball Ruttledge in, Ruttledge out Herbert In Herbert Out, Ruttledge In. One common theme Knockmore man on team plus Stadler on bench but never seen

So where's the Knockmore bias? Surely if there was Knockmore bias, all 3 would have to be playing every game all the time. Stadler's a good young lad, pity he didn't get more game time with Mayo.

[Foreverhopeful]

he wasnt anywhere near the knockmore team was he? If he was a good enough minor he would be on Knockmore senior team. Was he not on minor panel in 08 aswell?

[Farrandeelin]

Making it this year in a few games, good on the minor team though, not afraid to hold back.

[moysider]

There was no Knockmore bias as far as I could see. Knockmore have been a top minor team last 2 years and I d reckon Dempsey came under fire from home for not picking more of them more often. Ruttledge was well worth his place.
Comparisons with JPK dont stack up. JP had some fine teams but they went up in smoke in Croke Park. Dempsey might be no Henry Kessinger as a man manager - whatever that means- but he set out his teams in a way they had a realistic chance of winning against very good teams.
Now I happen to believe that the 08 minor team was probably one of the most talented that I remember. Maybe even the most talented. Fellas like Nally, Keane, Cafferkey, O Shea, Hennelly and Walsh were more quality than you could hope to expect in any year. They met one of the great minor teams but they would have won any of the last 10 or more AIs and would certainly have won this years. However a lot about of this years team was very good also. The defence kept us in every game. That s a huge developement imo.

[REDCOL]

I hope I am above parochial bias even though the treatment of that young man on the day before the final was scandalous. If you attended all the matches this year you could not say Ruttledge did well most of the time, he was taken off every day he started bar the final when he played well.

The point about Dempsey is that the jury is still out, he has only won connacht finals yet. He may turn out to be a very good manager but he has to develop into one. He has areas he needs to work on and maybe our fascination with big men is not the complete answer. Tyrone have won three all irelands with relatively small teams.

[ballinaman]

Nonsense lads. In fairness to Dempsey he's above that sort of shite. I could point the finger at other managers who weren't. Herbert was started in a bid to allow Aidan Walsh play in the full-forward line. It didn't work but it was a solid premise. Ruttledge did well most of the time. Its far too easy to throw that bias line at a manager. I don't see it. Recol you're obviously angry that Brian Walsh didn't get a run and wasn't in the squad for the final. I know, and I expect, that didn't go down well in Garrymore.

EDIT: And who says he's the Messiah? He has done well at minor level and deserves a shot at the next level and is getting it. He has managed to produce teams with a bit of steel in them, that Mayo teams have been lacking. I think myself and a few more would rate him but he has done well and I'm not sure how anyone can suggest he LOST us an All-Ireland. For heaven's sake he got two average teams into finals!

Indeed, I remember thinking after the last 2 Connacht finals that the minors wouldn't go much further anyways and then sure enough the go all the way to the final.

Tyrone don't exactly have big men either, be hard to name a couple of players over 6 foot. I'm looking forward to see how Dempsey gets on with the U21s, i've high hopes for him.

[dodo]

Indeed, I remember thinking after the last 2 Connacht finals that the minors wouldn't go much further anyways and then sure enough the go all the way to the final.

Tyrone don't exactly have small men either, be hard to name a couple of players under 6 foot. I'm looking forward to see how Dempsey gets on with the U21s, i've high hopes for him.

Ryan McMenamin   5'10" 
David Harte          5'10"
Conor Gormley      5'11"
Phillip Jordan         5'11"
Brian Dooher        5'10"
Brian McGuigan     5'10"
Martin Penrose     5'10"
Stephen O'Neill     
Colm McCullugh    5' 8" 
Owen Mulligan     5'11"
PJ Quinn             5'10"

[ballinaman]

Cheers abbeysider!! Thats what i meant to say, somehow manage to get it arseways though!!