Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[the Deel Rover]

red  and green,
i was not questioning your post, i too heard it said by players that they were fatigued even though they had months of no hard training,i was pointing out that its an excuse.
And the doubts in the minds theory can be shot down too, two words :munster rugby

Yeah I know that these doubts can be overcome. It does take a change in mindset though and Mayo have more catching up than anyone to do in terms of changing mindsets. That's why the minors winning this year would have been great. Mix those lads with a few of the U-21 winners in 2006 and you'd have lad
s who have a rare confidence - a Mayoman with an All-Ireland winners medal in his pocket

we have a few of them in north mayo

[RedandGreenSniper]

red  and green,
i was not questioning your post, i too heard it said by players that they were fatigued even though they had months of no hard training,i was pointing out that its an excuse.
And the doubts in the minds theory can be shot down too, two words :munster rugby

Yeah I know that these doubts can be overcome. It does take a change in mindset though and Mayo have more catching up than anyone to do in terms of changing mindsets. That's why the minors winning this year would have been great. Mix those lads with a few of the U-21 winners in 2006 and you'd have lad
s who have a rare confidence - a Mayoman with an All-Ireland winners medal in his pocket

we have a few of them in north mayo

Four minutes? I thought that comment would go at least ten minutes without being challenged but ye north Mayo lads don't half like to boast 

[the Deel Rover]

  was going to reply even quicker r & g but i held meself back

[AbbeySider]

FATIGUE?
what about kerry every year, no sign of fatigue and them in league and championship final more than the next few teams combined.
pete sampras, manchester utd,boston redsox,kerry,sonia o sullivan and lance armstrong spring to mind as people who don't do excuses of being tired to stop them winning, why sjhould Mayo.
Maybe we just need excuses to continue the losing streak.

My point is that there wasn't signs of fatigue because fatigue wasn't necessarily the reason. It was a handy enough excuse afterwards. I think it was more a case that the Galway game just reawakened doubts in the players heads from 2006. The teams/individuals you mention there are winners. Success breeds success, unfortunately for us failure seems to breed failure too. Failure is what hangs over every Mayo team that will get to an All-Ireland final. Its a hard mindset to change . . .

red  and green,
i was not questioning your post, i too heard it said by players that they were fatigued even though they had months of no hard training,i was pointing out that its an excuse.
And the doubts in the minds theory can be shot down too, two words :munster rugby

Another thing that springs to mind is player burnout.
I felt that the Mayo players in recent years have been showing the signs. Im not putting burnout down to exhaustion from over training or playing....
Which is a very common misconception!!

"Burnout is a state or condition where one experiences fatigue, exhaustion, or frustration as a result of an intense focus on or attention to a goal, a cause, a lifestyle or a relationship that fails to produce the expected reward. "

" In other words, there is a burnout formula: expectations divided by a reality that does not meet your expectations, regardless of the effort you expend, equals burnout."

"There is no direct correlation or relationship between hard work and burnout. "
So it not from over training....

"There is, however, a direct correlation or relationship between hard work that produces little or no reward, and burnout. "

EG Mayo not winning an All Ireland in recent years despite multiple attempts has lead to burnout

"Yet many folks can and do work to exhaustion. But because they receive recognition, acknowledgement and reward, burnout is not a part of their equation."

EG Kerry and Munster Rugby. (as mannix eluded to)

Judging by the above formula its easy to see how mental and physical exhaustion is evedent on the Mayo team from burnout alone.
The likes of the older Mayo players Heaney, Nallen etc and even the younger players like Alan Dillon, Conor Mortimor have huge miles on the clock and have been pushing a very long time with no reward.

Its easy to see how they would have a negative or bleak attitude and when burnout sets in (which it has IMO) it makes life twice as hard.
They look exhausted at times when they should have been fresh.
Hence the recent performances against Galway. Im putting it down to burnout.

(URL: http://www.management-issues.com/2007/11/15/opinion/are-you-suffering-from-burnout.asp)

[AbbeySider]

McGarrity welcomes new year
18 December 2008

Mayo captain Ronan McGarrity sees 2009 as an ideal opportunity to get the disappointment of '08 out of his system.

The straight-talking Ballina man admitted that his own displays were below par this year and welcomed the dawning of a new season:

"I'm looking forward to seeing what this Mayo team can do next year. We've been building for three years now, we've got players in, and I think we're starting to run out of excuses about what's going wrong.

"I was bitterly disappointed with the way I performed for Mayo this year. What I need now is a swift kick up the backside, pull my head out of the clouds and start playing football the way I can play."

I am one of his biggest critics sometimes but at least he knows he is not performing.
Its refreshing to see comments like that instead of the egotistical stuff spouted by other players!

[RedandGreenSniper]

Another thing that springs to mind is player burnout.
I felt that the Mayo players in recent years have been showing the signs. Im not putting burnout down to exhaustion from over training or playing....
Which is a very common misconception!!

"Burnout is a state or condition where one experiences fatigue, exhaustion, or frustration as a result of an intense focus on or attention to a goal, a cause, a lifestyle or a relationship that fails to produce the expected reward. "

" In other words, there is a burnout formula: expectations divided by a reality that does not meet your expectations, regardless of the effort you expend, equals burnout."

"There is no direct correlation or relationship between hard work and burnout. "
So it not from over training....

"There is, however, a direct correlation or relationship between hard work that produces little or no reward, and burnout. "

EG Mayo not winning an All Ireland in recent years despite multiple attempts has lead to burnout

"Yet many folks can and do work to exhaustion. But because they receive recognition, acknowledgement and reward, burnout is not a part of their equation."

EG Kerry and Munster Rugby. (as mannix eluded to)

Judging by the above formula its easy to see how mental and physical exhaustion is evedent on the Mayo team from burnout alone.
The likes of the older Mayo players Heaney, Nallen etc and even the younger players like Alan Dillon, Conor Mortimor have huge miles on the clock and have been pushing a very long time with no reward.

Its easy to see how they would have a negative or bleak attitude and when burnout sets in (which it has IMO) it makes life twice as hard.
They look exhausted at times when they should have been fresh.
Hence the recent performances against Galway. Im putting it down to burnout.

(URL: http://www.management-issues.com/2007/11/15/opinion/are-you-suffering-from-burnout.asp)

Never heard the mental effects of losing being described as burnout before but it makes sense I guess. There are only so many times you can go to the well. How Alan Dillon for instance keeps going is beyond me sometimes. Lost a U-16 All-Ireland with Davitt College in 1996 (as a first year). Lost an All-Ireland senior semi-final the following year and two All-Ireland senior finals with  the same school in 1998 and 2000 (both of which, agonisingly, went to replays). Then there was losing two minor All-Irelands in a row in 99 and 2000, an U-21 All-Ireland in 2001, and then the senior All-Irelands in 04 and 06. The only break for those heartbreaks was when Mayo won the Inter-County Vocational Schools All-Ireland in 99 (I think) which, was probably the one he wanted the least. Thats ten All-Ireland finals he has played in and only one winners medal to show for it. And the poor lad is still only 26. I'd say he could be top of that list for player-burnout from an accumulation of defeats. Add in the fact that getting to so many All-Ireland finals meant an awful lot of football - Minor two years, U-21 for four years, senior player since 2003. Behind the old warriors like Nallen and Heaney, Dillon is the next in line for a Mayo man that deserves an All-Ireland. But the race for Sam is not a charity event . . .

[AbbeySider]

Never heard the mental effects of losing being described as burnout before but it makes sense I guess. There are only so many times you can go to the well. How Alan Dillon for instance keeps going is beyond me sometimes. Lost a U-16 All-Ireland with Davitt College in 1996 (as a first year). Lost an All-Ireland senior semi-final the following year and two All-Ireland senior finals with  the same school in 1998 and 2000 (both of which, agonisingly, went to replays). Then there was losing two minor All-Irelands in a row in 99 and 2000, an U-21 All-Ireland in 2001, and then the senior All-Irelands in 04 and 06. The only break for those heartbreaks was when Mayo won the Inter-County Vocational Schools All-Ireland in 99 (I think) which, was probably the one he wanted the least. Thats ten All-Ireland finals he has played in and only one winners medal to show for it. And the poor lad is still only 26. I'd say he could be top of that list for player-burnout from an accumulation of defeats. Add in the fact that getting to so many All-Ireland finals meant an awful lot of football - Minor two years, U-21 for four years, senior player since 2003. Behind the old warriors like Nallen and Heaney, Dillon is the next in line for a Mayo man that deserves an All-Ireland. But the race for Sam is not a charity event . . .

Some amazing statistics there R&GS.
Dillon has an incredible amount done for his age. He is pushing a very long time.

I heard once that Kennith Mortimor lost about 14 finals (All Irelands I think) at different stages.
I wouldnt have the exact knowledge to name them all out but he is definitely someone who finished too early and was said to be burnt out in the end. 

I think there is a similar statistic in Keith Duggans book regarding Liam McHale and the amount of All Ireland's he lost at club and county level (Ill go research that one). He was trying for 13 years at least.

[the Deel Rover]

Yeah when you think of it the boys have gone through some amount of pain with the losses

Jimmy Mc & Ciaran MC have lost 2 under 21 Ai Finals to kerry and cork
                          Mc Has lost 3 Ai senior Finals All To Kerry Jimmy an Extra one to Meath in 1996
Jimmy and Mc have lost            1 Ai club Final to Nemo 

So Mc hAS lost 6 Ai Finals and Jimmy 7                                       

[RedandGreenSniper]

Its some tale of woe surely.

Liam McHale says in Keith Duggan's book that you imagine if you played in six finals you'd win one of them. He played in senior finals in 89, 96 (twice) and 97 and a club final in 1999, won none of them. Not sure about the sixth one. He didn't play U-21 in 83 when Mayo won but I've a feeling he played the following year when Mayo lost the final as far as I know but my memory is hazy as I was only 2 at the time 

Another soldier for Mayo who didn't get the ultimate reward though, poor oul Liam.

Heard before about Kenny Mort losing a shit load of finals but not sure of which ones they were. Jarlath's perhaps but not sure of years, Mayo minors in 91, U-21s in 94 and 05 and seniors in 96 and 97. He was the only Mayo player to get All Stars in both those years which shows what a great corner-back he was at that time. But by the time Mayo returned to Croke Park in 99, he was centre-half forward. That always confused me. Was it a stupid call by Maughan or did he just know that Kenny's time was running out and he'd get exposed in the corner?

[the Deel Rover]

Its some tale of woe surely.

Liam McHale says in Keith Duggan's book that you imagine if you played in six finals you'd win one of them. He played in senior finals in 89, 96 (twice) and 97 and a club final in 1999, won none of them. Not sure about the sixth one. He didn't play U-21 in 83 when Mayo won but I've a feeling he played the following year when Mayo lost the final as far as I know but my memory is hazy as I was only 2 at the time 

Another soldier for Mayo who didn't get the ultimate reward though, poor oul Liam.

Heard before about Kenny Mort losing a shit load of finals but not sure of which ones they were. Jarlath's perhaps but not sure of years, Mayo minors in 91, U-21s in 94 and 05 and seniors in 96 and 97. He was the only Mayo player to get All Stars in both those years which shows what a great corner-back he was at that time. But by the time Mayo returned to Croke Park in 99, he was centre-half forward. That always confused me. Was it a stupid call by Maughan or did he just know that Kenny's time was running out and he'd get exposed in the corner?

Felt really sorry that Liam Mc wasn't there to get his Ai club medals of any player that deserved one he certainly did

[RedandGreenSniper]

Its some tale of woe surely.

Liam McHale says in Keith Duggan's book that you imagine if you played in six finals you'd win one of them. He played in senior finals in 89, 96 (twice) and 97 and a club final in 1999, won none of them. Not sure about the sixth one. He didn't play U-21 in 83 when Mayo won but I've a feeling he played the following year when Mayo lost the final as far as I know but my memory is hazy as I was only 2 at the time 

Another soldier for Mayo who didn't get the ultimate reward though, poor oul Liam.

Heard before about Kenny Mort losing a shit load of finals but not sure of which ones they were. Jarlath's perhaps but not sure of years, Mayo minors in 91, U-21s in 94 and 05 and seniors in 96 and 97. He was the only Mayo player to get All Stars in both those years which shows what a great corner-back he was at that time. But by the time Mayo returned to Croke Park in 99, he was centre-half forward. That always confused me. Was it a stupid call by Maughan or did he just know that Kenny's time was running out and he'd get exposed in the corner?

Felt really sorry that Liam Mc wasn't there to get his Ai club medals of any player that deserved one he certainly did

Absolutely, twas a pity he was gone. For all the suffering McD and Jimmy Nallen undoubtedly have had, 2001 is still there for them to look back on with pride. The All-Ireland club was a big breakthrough for Brady too. Pretty sure he lost U-21's in 94 and 95 along with seniors in 96 and 97 and 04 before winning the club in 05 and then losing one more in 06. His reaction when he won the club was hillarious, he was just running round like a mad man, screaming at the camera and at anyone he came into contact with. Twas the highlight of Ballina's success

[the Deel Rover]

ayr db was gas allright seem to recall him saying i have been a loser all my life but i 'm a wiiner now or something along those lines

[mannix]

all this losing finals is infectious. were we to win a senior it would surely lead to a change in fortunes for us, football is not the problem, its our minds, we are too nice on the field.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Its all set to begin again. Few interesting bits of news here not least Ger Cafferkey

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5609&Itemid=39

Mayo count down the days


John O'Mahony calls football squad to arms

Mike Finnerty

THE Mayo senior football squad will train collectively for the first time in five months after Christmas but their initial plans have been disrupted with the news that Trevor Howley is set to miss the early stages of the new season.
The Knockmore defender underwent surgery on his ankle earlier this month and is expected to miss the early rounds of the National League as a result.
Other players who are definitely unavailable for the FBD Connacht League next month are Ronan McGarrity (on honeymoon) and Seamus O'Shea (recuperating from groin surgery), while Keith Higgins is in Australia until next May. Work commitments abroad will also mean that Pat Harte will be unavailable for a number of NFL matches.
Mayo begin their FBD League campaign away to NUI, Galway on Sunday, January 4 but John O'Mahony told The Mayo News that he only expects to sit down and finalise his squad for that game the day before.
"We have had a selected group working on a weight training programme for the last couple of months and we'll be meeting up with them immediately after Christmas. But, to be honest, we don't have a panel for the FBD League yet," explained the Mayo manager.
"The reality is that the college teams have first pick on three players from each county so we just have to wait and see who's available to us from the colleges when we meet up on the weekend of the first game."
Two players who certainly won't be lining out against the students are David Heaney and James Nallen.
The Mayo manager admitted that he "hadn't touched base yet" with either player about joining up with the squad for 2009 but said that both were still very much in his plans.
"January, and the FBD League, will be very experimental for us. To a certain extent, it'll be a different panel to the National League. Ronan McGarrity is going to be away on his honeymoon and we're anxious to look at some new faces in the FBD."
Among those players who should feature against NUI, Galway, Roscommon and Sligo IT are Mayo U-21s Kevin McLoughlin and Donal Vaughan, Ballaghaderreen trio Stephen Drake, Barry Kelly and Barry Regan, and Claremorris midfielder Brian Gallagher.
John O'Mahony also confirmed that highly-rated full-back Ger Cafferkey was " fully fit and very much in our plans for the season".

[mannix]

good to see some words from jom.