Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[From the Bunker]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

Buckley has done his time. Whether or not his leaving has got to do with the set-up? But you'd have to feel he (like us all) feels that this group has hit a plateux and the only way is backwards. We are hard to beat by the big teams, but we are beatable. We may maintain where we are for a while, but sooner or later we'll get a lesson from an up and coming side. Our (Mayo) present stage reminds me of Cork 2011 to present, That group have had a slow painful death at the top. Only difference they won a AI before the decline.

[moysider]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

I remember after the Dublin league game things were supposed to have been a bit septic in the camp. I remember James Horan in The Western looking for Donie Buckley to steady the ship and rescue the situation. I thought that was extraordinary (alarming even) at the time. Seems to me that management didn t have the players onside - probably from the start. Seems like it was down to Donie to keep the show on the road. Donie was there during the Horan years. Now you re looking at a scenario of somebody replacing him who is appointed by management that this group of players don t seem to have confidence in. Now how is that going to work?  Really. In the real world, things like that don t work at all.

Joint management is a cop out anyway. Even Clough and Taylor ended in grief. 2 average managers put together doesn t mean you get a good management.

This mess needs to be cleaned up before it gets a bad smell. There is an easy way out if people are sensible. When management lose the players there is no way back.

[mayoman dan]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

I remember after the Dublin league game things were supposed to have been a bit septic in the camp. I remember James Horan in The Western looking for Donie Buckley to steady the ship and rescue the situation. I thought that was extraordinary (alarming even) at the time. Seems to me that management didn t have the players onside - probably from the start. Seems like it was down to Donie to keep the show on the road. Donie was there during the Horan years. Now you re looking at a scenario of somebody replacing him who is appointed by management that this group of players don t seem to have confidence in. Now how is that going to work?  Really. In the real world, things like that don t work at all.

Joint management is a cop out anyway. Even Clough and Taylor ended in grief. 2 average managers put together doesn t mean you get a good management.

This mess needs to be cleaned up before it gets a bad smell. There is an easy way out if people are sensible. When management lose the players there is no way back.

As per usual brilliant post Moy. Does anyone know for sure whats going on as the rumours are getting out of hand altogether now?

[moysider]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

Buckley has done his time. Whether or not his leaving has got to do with the set-up? But you'd have to feel he (like us all) feels that this group has hit a plateux and the only way is backwards. We are hard to beat by the big teams, but we are beatable. We may maintain where we are for a while, but sooner or later we'll get a lesson from an up and coming side. Our (Mayo) present stage reminds me of Cork 2011 to present, That group have had a slow painful death at the top. Only difference they won a AI before the decline.

I would agree with most of that. Maybe you are right about the plateaux and going backwards bit too but I d be hopeful we could up it again. What happens now depends on what happens now. If H&C insist on staying on - even though they seem never to have had the confidence of the players - then the outlook is bleak indeed. They could appoint Jim Bolger and Aidan O Brien as trainers and it wouldn t make a pick of difference.

[mayoman dan]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

Buckley has done his time. Whether or not his leaving has got to do with the set-up? But you'd have to feel he (like us all) feels that this group has hit a plateux and the only way is backwards. We are hard to beat by the big teams, but we are beatable. We may maintain where we are for a while, but sooner or later we'll get a lesson from an up and coming side. Our (Mayo) present stage reminds me of Cork 2011 to present, That group have had a slow painful death at the top. Only difference they won a AI before the decline.

I would agree with most of that. Maybe you are right about the plateaux and going backwards bit too but I d be hopeful we could up it again. What happens now depends on what happens now. If H&C insist on staying on - even though they seem never to have had the confidence of the players - then the outlook is bleak indeed. They could appoint Jim Bolger and Aidan O Brien as trainers and it wouldn t make a pick of difference.

Andy Horan and Mc Guinness are the names ive heard

[Nihilist]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

I remember after the Dublin league game things were supposed to have been a bit septic in the camp. I remember James Horan in The Western looking for Donie Buckley to steady the ship and rescue the situation. I thought that was extraordinary (alarming even) at the time. Seems to me that management didn t have the players onside - probably from the start. Seems like it was down to Donie to keep the show on the road. Donie was there during the Horan years. Now you re looking at a scenario of somebody replacing him who is appointed by management that this group of players don t seem to have confidence in. Now how is that going to work?  Really. In the real world, things like that don t work at all.

Joint management is a cop out anyway. Even Clough and Taylor ended in grief. 2 average managers put together doesn t mean you get a good management.

This mess needs to be cleaned up before it gets a bad smell. There is an easy way out if people are sensible. When management lose the players there is no way back.

As per usual brilliant post Moy. Does anyone know for sure whats going on as the rumours are getting out of hand altogether now?

I dunno. I think people should row back from this a little and let some concrete info come through from management and/or players. As far as I can see it's all speculation at the moment. I heard Dillon was unhappy at not being played in the semi final but there you go.  I'm sure he is too at not getting his chance but whether he would have made any difference or not is no more than speculation.

I assume nothing will come from management prior to the All Ireland itself. See how that pans out to see exactly where this team stands in relation to the so called top 2. After that I assume some sort of statement will be made with appointments etc if one is needed but I would be surprised to see one prior to that.

However one thing I don't like is the public hatred of this management.  That's why I put up that previous post as to what exactly people expect at the start of the championship season. And for every argument you want to make about calls the management team made I can easily make counter calls.  Also if If you want to have public outcry point it at the County Board. After all they appointed them and created this whole fiasco (big, small or whatever size it is) in the first place.

[moysider]

Buckley is a loss alright but as ICC said, it depends on who replaces him. The quality of the replacement will say a lot about how serious we are. The other consideration is WHY Buckley left - did he feel that the setup wasn't up to scratch? Or something else? If the former, then it puts serious pressure on H&C

I remember after the Dublin league game things were supposed to have been a bit septic in the camp. I remember James Horan in The Western looking for Donie Buckley to steady the ship and rescue the situation. I thought that was extraordinary (alarming even) at the time. Seems to me that management didn t have the players onside - probably from the start. Seems like it was down to Donie to keep the show on the road. Donie was there during the Horan years. Now you re looking at a scenario of somebody replacing him who is appointed by management that this group of players don t seem to have confidence in. Now how is that going to work?  Really. In the real world, things like that don t work at all.

Joint management is a cop out anyway. Even Clough and Taylor ended in grief. 2 average managers put together doesn t mean you get a good management.

This mess needs to be cleaned up before it gets a bad smell. There is an easy way out if people are sensible. When management lose the players there is no way back.

As per usual brilliant post Moy. Does anyone know for sure whats going on as the rumours are getting out of hand altogether now?

I dunno. I think people should row back from this a little and let some concrete info come through from management and/or players. As far as I can see it's all speculation at the moment. I heard Dillon was unhappy at not being played in the semi final but there you go.  I'm sure he is too at not getting his chance but whether he would have made any difference or not is no more than speculation.

I assume nothing will come from management prior to the All Ireland itself. See how that pans out to see exactly where this team stands in relation to the so called top 2. After that I assume some sort of statement will be made with appointments etc if one is needed but I would be surprised to see one prior to that.

However one thing I don't like is the public hatred of this management.  That's why I put up that previous post as to what exactly people expect at the start of the championship season. And for every argument you want to make about calls the management team made I can easily make counter calls.  Also if If you want to have public outcry point it at the County Board. After all they appointed them and created this whole fiasco (big, small or whatever size it is) in the first place.

It's not about public hatred. There isn t any. Disillusionment maybe. Hatred, not at all.
However H&C were not shy about taking over one of the plum jobs in inter-county football. They had chums/family that basically meant that they had no rival for the position of Mayo manager/s. When you take/want to take on that responsibility, you do so with you're eyes wide open. Remember Paudi and his quote about ****** animals.

Look, I ve no doubt that big brother will circle the wagons and protect the 2 boys. That is the likely outcome. It's about saving face, control, status etc. It's not about wining an AI.

[Nihilist]

It's not about public hatred. There isn t any. Disillusionment maybe. Hatred, not at all.
However H&C were not shy about taking over one of the plum jobs in inter-county football. They had chums/family that basically meant that they had no rival for the position of Mayo manager/s. When you take/want to take on that responsibility, you do so with you're eyes wide open. Remember Paudi and his quote about ****** animals.

Look, I ve no doubt that big brother will circle the wagons and protect the 2 boys. That is the likely outcome. It's about saving face, control, status etc. It's not about wining an AI.

Is it or was it such a desired proposition? Remember there were only 2 candidates. Where were all the others who publicly (or privately) wished to take control? Also many  would say that this position was always doomed to failure. Taking on a team that had been so close and so tight in the past 4 years. And the expectations - All Ireland or bust - how many people would take on that as a pre-requisite?

[moysider]

It's not about public hatred. There isn t any. Disillusionment maybe. Hatred, not at all.
However H&C were not shy about taking over one of the plum jobs in inter-county football. They had chums/family that basically meant that they had no rival for the position of Mayo manager/s. When you take/want to take on that responsibility, you do so with you're eyes wide open. Remember Paudi and his quote about ****** animals.

Look, I ve no doubt that big brother will circle the wagons and protect the 2 boys. That is the likely outcome. It's about saving face, control, status etc. It's not about wining an AI.

Is it or was it such a desired proposition? Remember there were only 2 candidates. Where were all the others who publicly (or privately) wished to take control? Also many  would say that this position was always doomed to failure. Taking on a team that had been so close and so tight in the past 4 years. And the expectations - All Ireland or bust - how many people would take on that as a pre-requisite?

You' re joking about the desired proposition?

Of course it was All-Ireland or bust.
McStay had no problem expressing an interest in the challenge. Holmes after seemingly ruling himself out changed his mind and we ended up on Holmes/ Connelly ticket. It might have been all innocent but it stinks of sharp practice. Not saying that McStay would have done better but he was humiliated - we ll never know if he could have made a difference.  What we did know was that H&C would not.
I'm sure McStay is kicking himself that he was sucked into that maw of nepotism. Outgoing chairman acted the maggot and dismissed and ridiculed McStay's proposals to justify their shafting of a genuine candidate. 
Now current Chairman will use his position to keep the bro and Pat beyond reproach. That ll do them.

[Nihilist]

I don't know why Holmes changed his mind. McStay also had pre-requisites and by all accounts I have heard the County Board would not meet them. So they went after Holmes again because they needed someone else?

When did Noel Connelly come on board? Was he there in the initial approach with Holmes or did he come on board after? Anyway as everyone knows the whole interview scenario ended a farce.

But I would say that if anyone thinks they are going to resign (and Connelly should more so than Holmes imo. as there is a clear conflict of interest with his bro. being chairman) I think they should forget it. It's not going to happen unless there is some sort of player mass revolt and that would be a disaster either way.

[macdanger2]

For me, unless the players want them out, they should get one more year. If they've, lost the dressing room, they should go.

Absolutely, the way they were appointed was a farce and I personally favoured McStay to get it. Mistakes were made this year but I would have taken retaining D1 status and getting to a SF at the beginning of the year.

if we get shut of them now and a new man comes in, what's the plan next year if we lose in Connacht / QF / SF?? Sack the manager again? Not a good road to go down

[mayoman dan]

For me, unless the players want them out, they should get one more year. If they've, lost the dressing room, they should go.

Absolutely, the way they were appointed was a farce and I personally favoured McStay to get it. Mistakes were made this year but I would have taken retaining D1 status and getting to a SF at the beginning of the year.

if we get shut of them now and a new man comes in, what's the plan next year if we lose in Connacht / QF / SF?? Sack the manager again? Not a good road to go down

I think most of us agree that this team has 1 maybe 2 more years at the top where we can challenge for sam and then it will more than likely take a year or 2 of transition and we may well fall away again.The players know this thats why they want the best available management in place.H and C are not that management.The process of finding a new manager last autumn was a farce and now its coming back to bite the County board in the hole.They got their man in and thought it would all blow over but it left a sour taste and the players are not backing down.Fair play to the players if they are kicking off.If we ever win sam it will be in spite of the County board not because of them.

[Farrandeelin]

That's what Eamon Mongey said when Mayo last won Sam Dan!

[From the Bunker]

For me, unless the players want them out, they should get one more year. If they've, lost the dressing room, they should go.

Absolutely, the way they were appointed was a farce and I personally favoured McStay to get it. Mistakes were made this year but I would have taken retaining D1 status and getting to a SF at the beginning of the year.

if we get shut of them now and a new man comes in, what's the plan next year if we lose in Connacht / QF / SF?? Sack the manager again? Not a good road to go down

I think most of us agree that this team has 1 maybe 2 more years at the top where we can challenge for sam and then it will more than likely take a year or 2 of transition and we may well fall away again.The players know this thats why they want the best available management in place.H and C are not that management.The process of finding a new manager last autumn was a farce and now its coming back to bite the County board in the hole.They got their man in and thought it would all blow over but it left a sour taste and the players are not backing down.Fair play to the players if they are kicking off.If we ever win sam it will be in spite of the County board not because of them.

I'm afraid the days of Challenging for Sam with this group ended this year. We will float about the Quarter finals, Semi finals and we might even get to a final with next years draw. But Dublin and Kerry will be in the way with younger, bigger and more skillful squads and less burdened with failure and having to cross the line. Tough job for H & C really!

[muppet]

That's what Eamon Mongey said when Mayo last won Sam Dan!

In fairness there was a 15 man selection committee back then. Could you imagine the meeting to pick the team for the Final?