Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

moysider · November 10, 2014, 11:18:53 PM

Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 10, 2014, 08:01:36 PM
Since this whole Mortimer saga has erupted, (Lord God can we ever just shut up and let football do the talking $:-\$ ) I was reminded of what my neighbour said to me in the wake of Mort's departure from the panel. The neighbour in question works with Horan in Coke. He asked him about Mortimer and if he (Horan) was shocked by it and Horan kind of gave him the impression that he wanted Mortimer off the whole panel. A "raison d'etre" on behalf of Horan if you like, as it seemed as if he hadn't a care in the world about Mort.

I would prefer to see Iolar's side though. I think that Horan would have wanted him to leave because he wasn't in line with the rest of them. You have to buy in to team tactics etc. Imagine a Kilkenny hurler quitting because he was on the bench! Well I for one can't, and I can only imagine him stepping up to the mark if he was brought on and in training the next night the squad gathered together.

Well it happened Farr. Charlie Carter thought that Cody was f**king him about and walked. Charlie had a few All-Stars and a couple AIs and had been part of the panel for 13 years. Cody let him off. The bitterness remains on Carter's part apparently.
Difference was that Kilkenny were winning AIs and the year Charlie huffed they won again. And have been winning since. Cody is tough and beyond reproach. One of the all time great hurlers, Tommy Walsh, didn t get any time in AL finals this year either. Rough. But Kilkenny won so Cody can be as callous as he wants.
That s a big difference. We re not Kilkenny. Sure Horan got so much right, and as I said already I was not Conoreen's biggest fan. But I have to say I was disappointed with some of the acts that Horan considered better for Mayo than Mort.
Maybe he just wanted rid of him than the trouble of integrating him into his vision of what he wanted to do. That s is not necessarily good management. It s a cop out. How much effort did Horan make to get Conoreen to integrate. I m sure that's in the book.
Bottom line - if Horan had won an AI (and there s an opinion out there that he would have if he had a bit more in the forwards) Conoreen would be 'Conor Who?' already. But he didn't and therefore Conoreen will always be a bogey man hanging over Horan's tenure. As if Mayo football needs any more introspection. But we bring a lot of this angst on ourselves.

maigheo · November 11, 2014, 03:45:10 AM

Listened to Mort on Rte yesterday and he does say that when he called Horan to tell him he was quitting the panel he spent an hour on the phone with him trying to talk him out of it and Horan also called him the following day to see could he change his mind.What ever chance Mort had of coming back I would say the letter from the family to Madwest was the final straw.Horan seemed very annoyed after the Connacht final about it as he claimed it contained a lot of untruths and he was never going to bring him back after that.

muppet · November 11, 2014, 01:51:09 PM

Quote from: maigheo on November 11, 2014, 03:45:10 AM
Listened to Mort on Rte yesterday and he does say that when he called Horan to tell him he was quitting the panel he spent an hour on the phone with him trying to talk him out of it and Horan also called him the following day to see could he change his mind.What ever chance Mort had of coming back I would say the letter from the family to Madwest was the final straw.Horan seemed very annoyed after the Connacht final about it as he claimed it contained a lot of untruths and he was never going to bring him back after that.

IIRC two players quit the panel that week.

Mort, quite publicly, before the Connacht Final, and Robert Hennelly left, quietly, after the Connacht. The latter did it the right way, certainly didn't burn his bridges and has been rewarded by Horan with the number 1 jersey. I would have disagreed with Horan about not starting Mort, but I would have agreed with Horan on leaving him out after the way Mort left the panel.

I would like to see a player of Mort's ability return, but I do believe he should apologise to the squad.

moysider · November 11, 2014, 04:29:17 PM

Quote from: maigheo on November 11, 2014, 03:45:10 AM
Listened to Mort on Rte yesterday and he does say that when he called Horan to tell him he was quitting the panel he spent an hour on the phone with him trying to talk him out of it and Horan also called him the following day to see could he change his mind.What ever chance Mort had of coming back I would say the letter from the family to Madwest was the final straw.Horan seemed very annoyed after the Connacht final about it as he claimed it contained a lot of untruths and he was never going to bring him back after that.

Fair play to Horan for making those calls. He could not have done any more and it certainly sounds like Mort was intent on cutting off his nose to spite his face. That stupid letter put the kibosh on any chance of a return.
Hard to see him come back into the reckoning. Gone a long time and at 32 pushing 33 next Summer he s bound to have lost a bit of the old dash. Without that I can t imagine him competing with the top defenders.

IolarCoisCuain · November 11, 2014, 07:56:02 PM

Quote from: moysider on November 11, 2014, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: maigheo on November 11, 2014, 03:45:10 AM
Listened to Mort on Rte yesterday and he does say that when he called Horan to tell him he was quitting the panel he spent an hour on the phone with him trying to talk him out of it and Horan also called him the following day to see could he change his mind.What ever chance Mort had of coming back I would say the letter from the family to Madwest was the final straw.Horan seemed very annoyed after the Connacht final about it as he claimed it contained a lot of untruths and he was never going to bring him back after that.

Fair play to Horan for making those calls. He could not have done any more and it certainly sounds like Mort was intent on cutting off his nose to spite his face. That stupid letter put the kibosh on any chance of a return.
Hard to see him come back into the reckoning. Gone a long time and at 32 pushing 33 next Summer he s bound to have lost a bit of the old dash. Without that I can t imagine him competing with the top defenders.

In his book, Conor says that he was disappointed with that letter. He knew nothing about it until he saw it in the paper. Thought it made him look like he'd gone crying to Mammy.

He then goes on to quote the letter in his book. Every single word of it.

moysider · November 11, 2014, 08:35:37 PM

As you say, he's not very consistent, is he?

From the Bunker · November 11, 2014, 09:13:04 PM

From reading bits and pieces here and there. Conor had a rush of blood when making his decision to jump ship. He was lacking good advice at the time. Not that I know Trevor, but if he had still been on the panel, he may have talked him around and lulled the situation.

moysider · November 11, 2014, 11:49:35 PM

Maybe, but I doubt it.

The young buck always had a spirit and confidence about himself. For somebody his size he needed that to survive at the level he did - let alone prosper!

But was he handled well early years? I doubt it. He boarded in St. Mary's and then Jarlath's came in for him. He would have been indulged like many a Mayo lad before in the hope of landing a Hogan Cup. Nurtured and developed? Not a chance.

In '99 he was dropped off the Mayo minor panel. The manager at the time was JP Keane. Keane did not do the dropping. Joe McCabe - the coach- did after the young lad had a 'difference of opinion' with another member of the management.

Mayo got to final and of course Mort's absence was seen by many as a reason we lost. Joe - a very good coach - was never asked back after standing up to the young buck.

Wonder how he spun that in the book?

maigheo · November 12, 2014, 01:56:29 AM

Remember going to see a Mayo u21 b final between Shrule and burrishoule specifically to see Mort.I did not know exactly what he looked like.Was very impressed with the no 15 for shrule who was showing for the ball constantly and was knocking over scores.So for the first half I figured Mort was no 15.Meanwhile the no 13 barley moved all game but kicked about 4 super points from play.Of course Mark Ronaldson was 15 and Mort no 13.Remember having mixed feelings about Mort as his work rate was zero but he still was able to kick 4 excellent points from play.All in all he still had a pretty decent career for Mayo but for some reason I always thought that he would have been much better,probably from all the hype that surrounded him from his time at Jarlaths

moysider · November 12, 2014, 01:42:42 PM

Conoreen only spent 1 year in Jarlath's iirc.

He was a St. Nary's boy. He d have been as well off if he stayed in Headford with Peter Forde.

maigheo · November 12, 2014, 11:17:09 PM

I do recall he scored something like 3.02 in an all ireland semifinal with Jarlaths and Kevin Mcstay mentioning it in his column for the Mayo news.He said that Mort was as near certain to be the next superstar in gaelic football.Wonder why he started out in Marys when Trevor and Kenneth previously went to Jarlaths?

rosnarun · November 13, 2014, 11:05:14 AM

because Trevor was always his own man and never hid his personality.
I suspect the real reason Horan got rid of him ( what ever the mechanics were) was Cillian o connor .
Mort was essential as a free taker for mayo for years and probably was the top close range free taker in the country for most of that period, but was not a slogger along horans taste . why else would you he have picked Conroy Carolan campbell ect before him .
@Maigheo
i have alway considered Ronaldson one of a long list of lost talents for mayo . our most skilful player since Mcdonald and what did Horan do play him way out of position as a Mark Mchugh type player and then drop him. What age is he now ? is it too late?

galwayman · November 13, 2014, 11:26:05 AM

QuoteWonder why he started out in Marys when Trevor and Kenneth previously went to Jarlaths?

Trevor went to Marys first as well. he only transferred to Jarlaths later on. In fifth year or leaving cert not sure which.

moysider · November 13, 2014, 11:39:37 AM

Quote from: galwayman on November 13, 2014, 11:26:05 AM
QuoteWonder why he started out in Marys when Trevor and Kenneth previously went to Jarlaths?

Trevor went to Marys first as well. he only transferred to Jarlaths later on. In fifth year or leaving cert not sure which.

Correct. Trevor was in Mary's as well.
Around about the time there was a bit a trouble involving a minister's son.

muppet · November 13, 2014, 08:44:49 PM

Quote from: rosnarun on November 13, 2014, 11:05:14 AM
because Trevor was always his own man and never hid his personality.
I suspect the real reason Horan got rid of him ( what ever the mechanics were) was Cillian o connor .
Mort was essential as a free taker for mayo for years and probably was the top close range free taker in the country for most of that period, but was not a slogger along horans taste . why else would you he have picked Conroy Carolan campbell ect before him .
@Maigheo
i have alway considered Ronaldson one of a long list of lost talents for mayo . our most skilful player since Mcdonald and what did Horan do play him way out of position as a Mark Mchugh type player and then drop him. What age is he now ? is it too late?

He played minor with Keith Higgins.