Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[muppet]

I'll take this out of the general threads.

Only Syf and Rossfan would look in here. 

Ciaran Kilkenny was born July 1993. He started against Mayo in Sept 2012.
The Dubs in 1995 had two 19 year olds as starters in the AIF.

Shane O'Donnell.

If Conroy has asked not to be considered for U-21 due to Kiltane's commitments then fair enough. If he wants time for the Leaving Cert then that is also fair enough. If not though............

The other member of the FF line Doherty should also be looked at.

A free scoring minor FF line is not something that comes along too often. Let's not make excuses for them to disappear down a well trodden path.

You certainly have the bit between the teeth with this one muppet

Is there not an arguement that throwing young fellas in too raw can ruin them? In these days of blanket defences and hairy defenders with years of conditioning and experience in the dark arts how will an undersized 18/19 yr old fare?
Certainly Irwin has the physique and the football but seems sadly lacking in pace. Imo opinion you need to be a Gooch or a big man like AOS to play as a 19yr old. Even Gooch says that he would not get a game now at the weight he started out at 10 yrs ago.

For what its worth I thought the quality players most likely to make it were Hall, Coen, Conlon and Plunkett. Hanley was also coming along nicely before his injury. Most of these guys play in hb line which is always where there seems to be lots of competition in a Mayo underage side.

We ve had lads who seemed to have an eye for goals before. Mikey Sweeney springs to mind and Jason Doherty couldn t stop scoring goals in the league a few years ago, Douglas was fairly keen at underage but........... Michael John Mullan was the minor goal hero in 85 and quickly promoted but never convinved as a senior. In fact we damn all seniors from the 85 team at all.

To the best of my recollection the best young inside forwards we ve produced since the turn of the century were Conoreen, Dillon, Conroy, O Connor and Regan. I m talking where they were as minors. The first 2 are finished or in the twilight of his career. Conroy seems in some way damaged by the wilderness years and his confidence looks brittle, especially in bigger games. O Connor is in rehab and will hopefully make a full recovery. Regan is in football limbo.

Conor, Cillian and Conroy were all thrown in at 18/19.

GAA isn't like soccer where players stick around because that is their primary concern in life.

The reasons players 'disappear', may include burnout, but it may also include prioritising something else such as education, work, travel, beer or whatever. The best way to keep them keen is to keep them involved at an early stage.

Tommy Conroy looks like a real talent to me and seems to have a good attitude. He is slight but so are half of Tyrone's forwards and the likes of Jaime Clarke.

Mentioning Irwin's lack of pace is fair enough, but that didn't prevent the other forwards getting starts for the seniors last year. (Higgins apart). I would be concerned about his fitness if he isn't brought in, at least to the U-21s, but that might last only a game or two so I would give him a shot at senior sooner rather than later.

[moysider]

Fair enough I suppose. Still think it would take a young lad of truly exceptional ability to survive as corner forward at that age. If you believe that Conroy has that special talent that s fair enough.

But are last year's minor forwards ahead of likes of Darren Coen and James Shaughnessy in pecking order?

Sometimes I think there is too much made of underage players that are on winning teams. Good managers need to be able to access players on an individual basis. Kerry got top quality senior teams recently without having great minor teams.

[muppet]

Fair enough I suppose. Still think it would take a young lad of truly exceptional ability to survive as corner forward at that age. If you believe that Conroy has that special talent that s fair enough.

But are last year's minor forwards ahead of likes of Darren Coen and James Shaughnessy in pecking order?

Sometimes I think there is too much made of underage players that are on winning teams. Good managers need to be able to access players on an individual basis. Kerry got top quality senior teams recently without having great minor teams.

While Kerry are always the exception to the rule, I agree to a certain extent with what you say, but look at last year's starting 15:

Hennelly *
Cunniffe *
Cafferkey *
Barrett *
Keegan
Vaughan
Boyle *
SOS *
AOS *
McLaughlin
Higgins *
Dillon *
Moran
Freeman
Conroy *

The asterisks are for those I reckon had relatively high profile minor careers reaching at least an AIF. The others may have been terrific minors but you will have to excuse my ignorance.

[moysider]

Fair enough I suppose. Still think it would take a young lad of truly exceptional ability to survive as corner forward at that age. If you believe that Conroy has that special talent that s fair enough.

But are last year's minor forwards ahead of likes of Darren Coen and James Shaughnessy in pecking order?

Sometimes I think there is too much made of underage players that are on winning teams. Good managers need to be able to access players on an individual basis. Kerry got top quality senior teams recently without having great minor teams.

While Kerry are always the exception to the rule, I agree to a certain extent with what you say, but look at last year's starting 15:

Hennelly *
Cunniffe *
Cafferkey *
Barrett *
Keegan
Vaughan
Boyle *
SOS *
AOS *
McLaughlin
Higgins *
Dillon *
Moran
Freeman
Conroy *

The asterisks are for those I reckon had relatively high profile minor careers reaching at least an AIF. The others may have been terrific minors but you will have to excuse my ignorance.

No ignorance. I m not even disagreeing with you. We have quality players coming along all the time. Andy captained a Nathy's team to a College's AI as a kid and then served a long apprenticship as a panellist in the county set-up. He started off as a very good utility player and now he is a ........ Keegan played his rugby but was always going to be a serious player. The reality is that we are usually a serious team with quality players every year at underage. But it s a hit or miss scenario and some of our underage management didnt help.
Maybe we are looking for a special player inside? We ve had them in the past but then some other bits were not right. Likes of Joe McGrath, Kevin O Neill and Kieran McDonald were game winners but other stuff didn t add up. All the players you listed above were/are serious players.
I know I ve beaten this old drum before but I believe our problem when we things get serious is a tactical one. We had enough quality and scoring power in the squad to win the last 2 AIs. Tyrone managed to restrict Kerry teams with Gooch, Donaghy and Declan O Sullivan in their pomp and get enough scores at the other end. But even Tyrones quality forwards would not have scored enough if their defense had not taken the sting out of Kerry.

[Mayo4Sam]

Is trevor giles living in Ballina?

[Tubberman]

Is trevor giles living in Ballina?

No idea, but he was out on the pitch when Stephenites won the All-Ireland in 2005, so he must have some sort of connection...

[moysider]

Is trevor giles living in Ballina?

No idea, but he was out on the pitch when Stephenites won the All-Ireland in 2005, so he must have some sort of connection...

Married to local girl. Saw him about recently.

[Mayo4Sam]

I saw him at mass on Saturday evening, the missus was bringing up the offertory, which would lead you to think they werent just home for the weekend. Two young lads in the family!

[seafoid]

I'll take this out of the general threads.

Only Syf and Rossfan would look in here. 

Ciaran Kilkenny was born July 1993. He started against Mayo in Sept 2012.
The Dubs in 1995 had two 19 year olds as starters in the AIF.

Shane O'Donnell.

If Conroy has asked not to be considered for U-21 due to Kiltane's commitments then fair enough. If he wants time for the Leaving Cert then that is also fair enough. If not though............

The other member of the FF line Doherty should also be looked at.

A free scoring minor FF line is not something that comes along too often. Let's not make excuses for them to disappear down a well trodden path.

You certainly have the bit between the teeth with this one muppet

Is there not an arguement that throwing young fellas in too raw can ruin them? In these days of blanket defences and hairy defenders with years of conditioning and experience in the dark arts how will an undersized 18/19 yr old fare?
Certainly Irwin has the physique and the football but seems sadly lacking in pace. Imo opinion you need to be a Gooch or a big man like AOS to play as a 19yr old. Even Gooch says that he would not get a game now at the weight he started out at 10 yrs ago.

For what its worth I thought the quality players most likely to make it were Hall, Coen, Conlon and Plunkett. Hanley was also coming along nicely before his injury. Most of these guys play in hb line which is always where there seems to be lots of competition in a Mayo underage side.

We ve had lads who seemed to have an eye for goals before. Mikey Sweeney springs to mind and Jason Doherty couldn t stop scoring goals in the league a few years ago, Douglas was fairly keen at underage but........... Michael John Mullan was the minor goal hero in 85 and quickly promoted but never convinved as a senior. In fact we damn all seniors from the 85 team at all.

To the best of my recollection the best young inside forwards we ve produced since the turn of the century were Conoreen, Dillon, Conroy, O Connor and Regan. I m talking where they were as minors. The first 2 are finished or in the twilight of his career. Conroy seems in some way damaged by the wilderness years and his confidence looks brittle, especially in bigger games. O Connor is in rehab and will hopefully make a full recovery. Regan is in football limbo.

Conor, Cillian and Conroy were all thrown in at 18/19.

GAA isn't like soccer where players stick around because that is their primary concern in life.

The reasons players 'disappear', may include burnout, but it may also include prioritising something else such as education, work, travel, beer or whatever. The best way to keep them keen is to keep them involved at an early stage.

Tommy Conroy looks like a real talent to me and seems to have a good attitude. He is slight but so are half of Tyrone's forwards and the likes of Jaime Clarke.

Mentioning Irwin's lack of pace is fair enough, but that didn't prevent the other forwards getting starts for the seniors last year. (Higgins apart). I would be concerned about his fitness if he isn't brought in, at least to the U-21s, but that might last only a game or two so I would give him a shot at senior sooner rather than later.

They'll have to do something radical. I can't remember exactly what Galway did in 87 after losing the 2 finals but I think Pat Malone was new to the midfield. PJ Molloy was dropped and Peter Murphy who was a makeweight also got the chop.
In the great Galway- Mayo fuball sequence 95- 97 Val Daly was one of the main players but Johnno dropped him in 98 and brought in Savage I think. Johnno  had relative lesser lights like the CHB and Sean O D who could perform well on occasion but dropped out afterwards   
He was fairly ruthless with John Donnellan too. Donnellan coulda been a contender but he was too tlathach.
Mayo should think about dumping  the subs who were no use in the second half and going for the young lads.   
Who potentially has the "give me  the f&&&**g ball"  steel they need for the last 5 mins ? Joyce was very young but he knew what to do. Ok, it was only the Lilies but still . 

Si tu l'as tu l'as
et ca s'achete pas


"If you got it it you got it
and you can't buy it" 


Released August 1987 the week after Galway won their semifinal !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKibLPORq2s

[From the Bunker]

I'll take this out of the general threads.

Only Syf and Rossfan would look in here. 

Ciaran Kilkenny was born July 1993. He started against Mayo in Sept 2012.
The Dubs in 1995 had two 19 year olds as starters in the AIF.

Shane O'Donnell.

If Conroy has asked not to be considered for U-21 due to Kiltane's commitments then fair enough. If he wants time for the Leaving Cert then that is also fair enough. If not though............

The other member of the FF line Doherty should also be looked at.

A free scoring minor FF line is not something that comes along too often. Let's not make excuses for them to disappear down a well trodden path.

You certainly have the bit between the teeth with this one muppet

Is there not an arguement that throwing young fellas in too raw can ruin them? In these days of blanket defences and hairy defenders with years of conditioning and experience in the dark arts how will an undersized 18/19 yr old fare?
Certainly Irwin has the physique and the football but seems sadly lacking in pace. Imo opinion you need to be a Gooch or a big man like AOS to play as a 19yr old. Even Gooch says that he would not get a game now at the weight he started out at 10 yrs ago.

For what its worth I thought the quality players most likely to make it were Hall, Coen, Conlon and Plunkett. Hanley was also coming along nicely before his injury. Most of these guys play in hb line which is always where there seems to be lots of competition in a Mayo underage side.

We ve had lads who seemed to have an eye for goals before. Mikey Sweeney springs to mind and Jason Doherty couldn t stop scoring goals in the league a few years ago, Douglas was fairly keen at underage but........... Michael John Mullan was the minor goal hero in 85 and quickly promoted but never convinved as a senior. In fact we damn all seniors from the 85 team at all.

To the best of my recollection the best young inside forwards we ve produced since the turn of the century were Conoreen, Dillon, Conroy, O Connor and Regan. I m talking where they were as minors. The first 2 are finished or in the twilight of his career. Conroy seems in some way damaged by the wilderness years and his confidence looks brittle, especially in bigger games. O Connor is in rehab and will hopefully make a full recovery. Regan is in football limbo.

Conor, Cillian and Conroy were all thrown in at 18/19.

GAA isn't like soccer where players stick around because that is their primary concern in life.

The reasons players 'disappear', may include burnout, but it may also include prioritising something else such as education, work, travel, beer or whatever. The best way to keep them keen is to keep them involved at an early stage.

Tommy Conroy looks like a real talent to me and seems to have a good attitude. He is slight but so are half of Tyrone's forwards and the likes of Jaime Clarke.

Mentioning Irwin's lack of pace is fair enough, but that didn't prevent the other forwards getting starts for the seniors last year. (Higgins apart). I would be concerned about his fitness if he isn't brought in, at least to the U-21s, but that might last only a game or two so I would give him a shot at senior sooner rather than later.

They'll have to do something radical. I can't remember exactly what Galway did in 87 after losing the 2 finals but I think Pat Malone was new to the midfield. PJ Molloy was dropped and Peter Murphy who was a makeweight also got the chop.
In the great Galway- Mayo fuball sequence 95- 97 Val Daly was one of the main players but Johnno dropped him in 98 and brought in Savage I think. Johnno  had relative lesser lights like the CHB and Sean O D who could perform well on occasion but dropped out afterwards   
He was fairly ruthless with John Donnellan too. Donnellan coulda been a contender but he was too tlathach.
Mayo should think about dumping  the subs who were no use in the second half and going for the young lads.  
Who potentially has the "give me  the f&&&**g ball"  steel they need for the last 5 mins ? Joyce was very young but he knew what to do. Ok, it was only the Lilies but still . 

Si tu l'as tu l'as
et ca s'achete pas


"If you got it it you got it
and you can't buy it" 


Released August 1987 the week after Galway won their semifinal !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKibLPORq2s

John Donnellan was kept in the Galway squad to keep the brother happy! Once Galway won their AI in 1998, Johnno knew he was in greater position of authority and Michael had to play to his tune! Last year we had quite a number of defenders who got game time when games were (well) won. But when it came to the big calls and giving these lads a run, we did not trust them? This made giving them the earlier run outs redundant? Fresh new blood is good, but with t comes learning about the players character, this good and bad traits, getting him conditioned, assimilating him with the group, getting him in tune with the style of play of the team and so on. It's not as simple as picking one player and dropping another, especially a couple of years into a project.

[seafoid]

He was well able to score against Mayo...
Anyway I'd say the Mayo squad doesn't have enough depth yet. Vulnerable to injuries, replacements not as good as in other big teams.

[From the Bunker]

He was well able to score against Mayo...
Anyway I'd say the Mayo squad doesn't have enough depth yet. Vulnerable to injuries, replacements not as good as in other big teams.

I presume you are talking about John Donnellan being able to score against Mayo. Don't remember him being prolific! Maybe you mean some else? He did not score in 1998 (probably because he did not play).

As for dept. Dublin are the only county with dept. Who else has?

[From the Bunker]

A pretty lazy article. Always the same this time of year. Allot of the players named are on trial or squad members.

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=208330

[seafoid]

He was well able to score against Mayo...
Anyway I'd say the Mayo squad doesn't have enough depth yet. Vulnerable to injuries, replacements not as good as in other big teams.

I presume you are talking about John Donnellan being able to score against Mayo. Don't remember him being prolific! Maybe you mean some else? He did not score in 1998 (probably because he did not play).

As for dept. Dublin are the only county with dept. Who else has?

You need a bench to win all Irelands. Galway in 87 had Noel Lane. Seamus Darby . That sort of thing. Losers always look back on chances missed. Fellas have off days. I would try the young lads in connacht. Maybe go back door. Whatever it takes.

[joemamas]

I'll take this out of the general threads.

Only Syf and Rossfan would look in here. 

Ciaran Kilkenny was born July 1993. He started against Mayo in Sept 2012.
The Dubs in 1995 had two 19 year olds as starters in the AIF.

Shane O'Donnell.

If Conroy has asked not to be considered for U-21 due to Kiltane's commitments then fair enough. If he wants time for the Leaving Cert then that is also fair enough. If not though............

The other member of the FF line Doherty should also be looked at.

A free scoring minor FF line is not something that comes along too often. Let's not make excuses for them to disappear down a well trodden path.

You certainly have the bit between the teeth with this one muppet

Is there not an arguement that throwing young fellas in too raw can ruin them? In these days of blanket defences and hairy defenders with years of conditioning and experience in the dark arts how will an undersized 18/19 yr old fare?
Certainly Irwin has the physique and the football but seems sadly lacking in pace. Imo opinion you need to be a Gooch or a big man like AOS to play as a 19yr old. Even Gooch says that he would not get a game now at the weight he started out at 10 yrs ago.

For what its worth I thought the quality players most likely to make it were Hall, Coen, Conlon and Plunkett. Hanley was also coming along nicely before his injury. Most of these guys play in hb line which is always where there seems to be lots of competition in a Mayo underage side.

We ve had lads who seemed to have an eye for goals before. Mikey Sweeney springs to mind and Jason Doherty couldn t stop scoring goals in the league a few years ago, Douglas was fairly keen at underage but........... Michael John Mullan was the minor goal hero in 85 and quickly promoted but never convinved as a senior. In fact we damn all seniors from the 85 team at all.

To the best of my recollection the best young inside forwards we ve produced since the turn of the century were Conoreen, Dillon, Conroy, O Connor and Regan. I m talking where they were as minors. The first 2 are finished or in the twilight of his career. Conroy seems in some way damaged by the wilderness years and his confidence looks brittle, especially in bigger games. O Connor is in rehab and will hopefully make a full recovery. Regan is in football limbo.

Conor, Cillian and Conroy were all thrown in at 18/19.

GAA isn't like soccer where players stick around because that is their primary concern in life.

The reasons players 'disappear', may include burnout, but it may also include prioritising something else such as education, work, travel, beer or whatever. The best way to keep them keen is to keep them involved at an early stage.

Tommy Conroy looks like a real talent to me and seems to have a good attitude. He is slight but so are half of Tyrone's forwards and the likes of Jaime Clarke.

Mentioning Irwin's lack of pace is fair enough, but that didn't prevent the other forwards getting starts for the seniors last year. (Higgins apart). I would be concerned about his fitness if he isn't brought in, at least to the U-21s, but that might last only a game or two so I would give him a shot at senior sooner rather than later.

They'll have to do something radical. I can't remember exactly what Galway did in 87 after losing the 2 finals but I think Pat Malone was new to the midfield. PJ Molloy was dropped and Peter Murphy who was a makeweight also got the chop.
In the great Galway- Mayo fuball sequence 95- 97 Val Daly was one of the main players but Johnno dropped him in 98 and brought in Savage I think. Johnno  had relative lesser lights like the CHB and Sean O D who could perform well on occasion but dropped out afterwards   
He was fairly ruthless with John Donnellan too. Donnellan coulda been a contender but he was too tlathach.
Mayo should think about dumping  the subs who were no use in the second half and going for the young lads.  
Who potentially has the "give me  the f&&&**g ball"  steel they need for the last 5 mins ? Joyce was very young but he knew what to do. Ok, it was only the Lilies but still . 

Si tu l'as tu l'as
et ca s'achete pas


"If you got it it you got it
and you can't buy it" 


Released August 1987 the week after Galway won their semifinal !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKibLPORq2s

John Donnellan was kept in the Galway squad to keep the brother happy! Once Galway won their AI in 1998, Johnno knew he was in greater position of authority and Michael had to play to his tune! Last year we had quite a number of defenders who got game time when games were (well) won. But when it came to the big calls and giving these lads a run, we did not trust them? This made giving them the earlier run outs redundant? Fresh new blood is good, but with t comes learning about the players character, this good and bad traits, getting him conditioned, assimilating him with the group, getting him in tune with the style of play of the team and so on. It's not as simple as picking one player and dropping another, especially a couple of years into a project.

Very good point.