Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[Localexpert]

That programme shows you how great a manager Harte is.
Tyrone were nothing before he came along, (don't say he inherited great players) as Tyrone won two u21s with Canavan etc before that and no All Ireland's. we were bottle merchants on the big stage and no one feared us, as the Kerryman said.
he moulded a team of winners. As well as that he has kept Tyrone at the top table ever since 2003 - take a look at other counties such as Armagh and Derry. The worst Tyrone ever got during his time was Div 2 with straight promotion the following year. The number of trophies he won is incredible.
Anyone who calls for him to go is an idiot, and should be careful for what they wish for.

Of course micky harte will go down as a great manager however to say Tyrone were nothing (which granted is subjective as your nothing may not be as bad as mine) beforehand is a bit harsh. 
- The 6 counties in general didn't perform outside of Ulster with down the only winners until 1993.
-Tyrone in 1986 would win in the modern game as 7 point lead would be mass defended and counter attack the mode of play. 
-1995 should have went to a replay so in my opinion a bit of luck was the ingredient missing up until that time with the u21 all Ireland winners a big part of that team.  Peter the great still being around 8 years later.
-Tyrone as a county are in the top 10 counties for land mass and population so when proper underage coaching was put in place we started to reap the rewards at county and school level. 
- I don't think you can argue with inheritance of players being  major factor as well in our amateur play where you are born sport as i think you will agree he wouldn't have been able to win with Carlow etc.
- I believe good Friday agreement was also a factor in that the ending of the troubles ended a potential avenue for "distraction" away from football
- and probably most importantly he took over 2 years into the back door system which means he certainly wouldn't have won as many all Ireland titles without it and in my opinion wouldn't have lasted as long as he has done without that system in place.
So great manager yes but would Tyrone have won an all Ireland if micky harte had never taken over? I have to believe with all the other factors I've mentioned then yes they would have eventually!

[BennyHarp]

That programme shows you how great a manager Harte is.
Tyrone were nothing before he came along, (don't say he inherited great players) as Tyrone won two u21s with Canavan etc before that and no All Ireland's. we were bottle merchants on the big stage and no one feared us, as the Kerryman said.
he moulded a team of winners. As well as that he has kept Tyrone at the top table ever since 2003 - take a look at other counties such as Armagh and Derry. The worst Tyrone ever got during his time was Div 2 with straight promotion the following year. The number of trophies he won is incredible.
Anyone who calls for him to go is an idiot, and should be careful for what they wish for.

Of course micky harte will go down as a great manager however to say Tyrone were nothing (which granted is subjective as your nothing may not be as bad as mine) beforehand is a bit harsh. 
- The 6 counties in general didn't perform outside of Ulster with down the only winners until 1993.
-Tyrone in 1986 would win in the modern game as 7 point lead would be mass defended and counter attack the mode of play. 
-1995 should have went to a replay so in my opinion a bit of luck was the ingredient missing up until that time with the u21 all Ireland winners a big part of that team.  Peter the great still being around 8 years later.
-Tyrone as a county are in the top 10 counties for land mass and population so when proper underage coaching was put in place we started to reap the rewards at county and school level. 
- I don't think you can argue with inheritance of players being  major factor as well in our amateur play where you are born sport as i think you will agree he wouldn't have been able to win with Carlow etc.
- I believe good Friday agreement was also a factor in that the ending of the troubles ended a potential avenue for "distraction" away from football
- and probably most importantly he took over 2 years into the back door system which means he certainly wouldn't have won as many all Ireland titles without it and in my opinion wouldn't have lasted as long as he has done without that system in place.
So great manager yes but would Tyrone have won an all Ireland if micky harte had never taken over? I have to believe with all the other factors I've mentioned then yes they would have eventually!

Would the lads from 97/98 minors have bought into any other managers methods as much and as quickly? Brian McGuigan said he was relieved when Mickey got the senior job...it was clear they had the utmost respect for him and his methods. Would another manager have trusted the young lads as readily as Mickey? McGuigan was playing corner forward, as was Sean Cav, in 2003 Mickey put them straight away into the heart of the team. Mickey managed the horrific aftermath of Cormac in a dignified and highly skilled way and brought the team back again to the summit. But I think what his greatest achievement is expecting and maintaining the highest possible standards. He expects us to win All Ireland's, there's no inferiority complex in Tyrone anymore...even if it has the unforeseen circumstance of breeding a generation of ungrateful supporters like we read on here who think All Ireland's should fall onto our lap every year - Mickey created that arrogance because believe me it wasn't evident prior to him taking over. We should never underestimate the role Mickey has played in our recent history, yes another manager may have won All Ireland's with those players but the fact is it was Mickey who actually did it and we should always be grateful for that. I'd find it hard to imagine another manager having the team primed to  tear into Kerry like 2003 or come up with the master strokes with an injured Peter or the mcMahons and Steven O'Neill in 08...I hope he can have the team tear into the Dubs a la 2003 on Sunday and cap his greatest ever achievement - hopefully there will be no doubters then.

[blackball]

Does anybody on here have any predictions for the game on Sunday? how do you see it going personnel and tactic wise?

[Localexpert]

That programme shows you how great a manager Harte is.
Tyrone were nothing before he came along, (don't say he inherited great players) as Tyrone won two u21s with Canavan etc before that and no All Ireland's. we were bottle merchants on the big stage and no one feared us, as the Kerryman said.
he moulded a team of winners. As well as that he has kept Tyrone at the top table ever since 2003 - take a look at other counties such as Armagh and Derry. The worst Tyrone ever got during his time was Div 2 with straight promotion the following year. The number of trophies he won is incredible.
Anyone who calls for him to go is an idiot, and should be careful for what they wish for.

Of course micky harte will go down as a great manager however to say Tyrone were nothing (which granted is subjective as your nothing may not be as bad as mine) beforehand is a bit harsh. 
- The 6 counties in general didn't perform outside of Ulster with down the only winners until 1993.
-Tyrone in 1986 would win in the modern game as 7 point lead would be mass defended and counter attack the mode of play. 
-1995 should have went to a replay so in my opinion a bit of luck was the ingredient missing up until that time with the u21 all Ireland winners a big part of that team.  Peter the great still being around 8 years later.
-Tyrone as a county are in the top 10 counties for land mass and population so when proper underage coaching was put in place we started to reap the rewards at county and school level. 
- I don't think you can argue with inheritance of players being  major factor as well in our amateur play where you are born sport as i think you will agree he wouldn't have been able to win with Carlow etc.
- I believe good Friday agreement was also a factor in that the ending of the troubles ended a potential avenue for "distraction" away from football
- and probably most importantly he took over 2 years into the back door system which means he certainly wouldn't have won as many all Ireland titles without it and in my opinion wouldn't have lasted as long as he has done without that system in place.
So great manager yes but would Tyrone have won an all Ireland if micky harte had never taken over? I have to believe with all the other factors I've mentioned then yes they would have eventually!

1)Would the lads from 97/98 minors have bought into any other managers methods as much and as quickly?2) Brian McGuigan said he was relieved when Mickey got the senior job...it was clear they had the utmost respect for him and his methods. Would another manager have trusted the young lads as readily as Mickey? McGuigan was playing corner forward, as was Sean Cav, in 2003 Mickey put them straight away into the heart of the team. 3) Mickey managed the horrific aftermath of Cormac in a dignified and highly skilled way and brought the team back again to the summit. But I think what his greatest achievement is expecting and maintaining the highest possible standards. He expects us to win All Ireland's, there's no inferiority complex in Tyrone anymore...even if it has the unforeseen circumstance of breeding a generation of ungrateful supporters like we read on here who think All Ireland's should fall onto our lap every year - Mickey created that arrogance because believe me it wasn't evident prior to him taking over. We should never underestimate the role Mickey has played in our recent history, yes another manager may have won All Ireland's with those players but the fact is it was Mickey who actually did it and we should always be grateful for that. 4) I'd find it hard to imagine another manager having the team primed to  tear into Kerry like 2003 or come up with the master strokes with an injured Peter or the mcMahons and Steven O'Neill in 08...I hope he can have the team tear into the Dubs a la 2003 on 5)Sunday and cap his greatest ever achievement - hopefully there will be no doubters then.

1) We'll never know! 2) utmost respect yes no argument.  sean Cav was only out of minor so just made his debut in 2002 but interestingly it was micky who over looked him for u21 team the year before so he isnt without fault when it comes to seeing players potential.  if you actually have a look back the young players you speak of were already known to be the future and had made their debut before 2003. 3) a hard time no doubt but if you are suggesting another management team could not have managed it as well then i disagree. 4)i'll always be grateful i just don't buy into the rhetoric that it's all down to master strokes of micky. in my opinion the group of players at his disposable will always be the main factor.  in 2003 which you speak of armagh beat kerry the year before and tyrone took armagh to a replay so tyrone were not that far away before micky arrived with the 2002 national league win a major monkey off the back.  5) without doubt will be the greatest win but in this instance i can't see him pulling it off.  he has lost the last 4 championship games to dublin (and 2 in the last 2 years). if a 5th occurs how many more chances will he need if he is as great as you think?

[Redhand Santa]

Mickey harte won the u21 all Ireland in 2001, Sean cavanagh was still a minor and focused on that. Not sure you can find any negatives out of what he did in 2001.

[Therealdonald]

Just seen a video on facebook there of Stevie O'Neill, jesus but what a player that man was. And we probably didn't get to see the best of him either because of injuries.

[Localexpert]

Mickey harte won the u21 all Ireland in 2001, Sean cavanagh was still a minor and focused on that. Not sure you can find any negatives out of what he did in 2001.

Funny peter Donnelly played both and as far as I was told at the time it was because he was the only one of the two selected.... don't want to argue about this was just a point

[omagh_gael]

This is a good laugh...

The Monday Club: Kevin 'Hub' Hughes and Philip Jordan recall tales from the glory years
When Tyrone were winning All-Irelands, they took their Sunday business very serious, and their Monday and sometimes Tuesday business every bit the same. Cahair O'Kane headed to one of their old haunts, McAleer's in Dungannon, to meet Kevin Hughes and Philip Jordan and recount some tales from The Monday Club...

Former Tyrone players Philip Jordan and Kevin Hughes pictured at McAleer's Bar, Dungannon. Picture by Declan Roughan
     
Cahair O'Kane
27 August, 2018 01:00

THERE are a few regulars stood just inside the door of McAleer's, glued to the horse racing. One of them's had a 33/1 winner today. As Thursday evenings go, that makes it a good one.

The place is decked head-to-toe in red and white. Bunting, flags, old framed jerseys.

The boss, Sean, is milling around. Kindly sets up a drink and strikes into a conversation about football.

In walks Philip Jordan, smartly dressed but minus the tie. Kevin Hughes is just a couple of minutes behind, the shirt glued to a frame that still looks made of steel. This was one of their regular post-match spots. When they played for Tyrone and there was celebrating or commiserating to be done afterwards, McAleer's was one of the first ports of call.

That was the Sunday club. It stretched into Mondays, and an odd time the Tuesday. These were the best of times...

*****

Cahair O'Kane: How and when did the Monday Club start?
Kevin Hughes: If you go back to minors, '97 it was the Boe Inn in Dromore for the Monday club after the Greenvale on a Sunday night.
Philip Jordan: In '98 we more went to Forbes' in Ardboe, and then the Greenvale and then probably stayed in Mugsy's house. After we won the Ulster minor in '98, Horse [Devlin] broke the lug off the cup coming off the bus.
KH: We were in Ardboe the Monday after the minors in '98, and then the Tuesday we came back into Cookstown. Mugsy's mother had organised a feed for us in the top bar in the Greenvale. There was this big long table and us sitting down the two sides of it, drinking and eating away. You know what Horse [Gavin Devlin] is like. End of the season, end of the minors, he started getting emotional. 'Boys this is f***ing unreal. You don't realise what we've done. This is...this is like...the f***ing Last Supper!' And he was crying and everything, and we were in stitches laughing at him.
PJ: He was the same after the U21s outside the Glenavon. Gormley was driving, he had the car with the music pumping and Horse was half-crying: 'I'm never gonna play with yous boys again!' Didn't have much confidence in his own ability.

CO'K: You won Ulster in 2001, the first senior success for a lot of that team. How did that go?
KH: We were in Belfast House in Cookstown and we go out the side way to go to the toilet. Ricey's just lying on a single bench sleeping. So we lifted him, walked him across the Main Street to the central reserve and just set him into it, arms crossed, sleeping.
The Monday night after we were in the Auction Rooms and I had my car over. We arranged to meet after club U21 matches and go to Belfast, but I'd no match so I was in good and early. [Enda] McGinley was playing so he came late, and he said he'd drive my car down the road. A wee oul wreck of a Peugeot 309. I was in the front, and the seat was pushed back so everyone could get in. I went to reach forward and McGuigan drove his foot off the back of my head, into the windscreen. Cracked the f***ing windscreen with my head.
PJ: McGinley was sober and he could hardly drive down the road for laughing.
KH: He was sober because he had to go down and meet the future wife.

CO'K: Mickey tried to implement a drinking ban then in 2003 during the championship run?
KH: That came about because we were playing a friendly down south and Jim Curran, [Brian] McGuigan, Horse and Mickey Coleman stopped on the way home and went on the lash. This was on the Sunday. I went out to the Glenavon with the Killeeshil lads, and big Packie [McConnell] was out. This meeting happened the following week, and everybody decided they'd better own up. So what did we agree on, three pints after a match? And 'Horse' just goes: 'F*** sake Mickey, if I take three pints, that's me on it! I can't take three pints and go home. It's all or nothing'. Everybody's going 'f*** sake Horse'. So it was nothing then.



Kevin 'Hub' Hughes as he recalls the craic Tyrone players had during their playing days. Picture by Declan Roughan.


CO'K: How did the ban work out for the rest of the year?
PJ: We beat Fermanagh in the quarter-final, and we stayed in Dublin on the Sunday night. It was a Bank Holiday in the south, and Kerry were playing Roscommon, we were playing the winners. Me and McGuigan and Canavan said we'd sneak away and find a corner in The Citywest. We'd three or four pints, went to bed thinking we're great, we snuck out. Next day on the bus, we discover the whole thing had been in Coppers!
KH: I was one of them. Everybody was thinking the same. We went out and down the street to a wee bar, The Saggart, about half 11. There were five of us. We were at the bar chatting and the boy beside us overheard us, asked if we're looking a taxi into the town. So he took us. Four of us piled into the back, young Frank McGuigan's in the front. Next thing Frank, for some reason, opened the glove compartment and there's a f***ing gun in it. The boy was a Garda. Frank started pointing the gun at everybody. The boy was up for the craic. He says he knew the owner of Coppers, we wouldn't have to queue or anything. Pulled up, and there's this massive queue the whole way down the street, and all the Fermanagh players at the back of it. We said we'd queue up, we didn't want to walk in past those boys, but he took us straight down to the door. A man met us there, gave us a couple of hundred euro and let us on in. We didn't get back out to the hotel until 8am and we met Jim Curran, he goes 'get up to that f***ing room'. We got back on the bus to go back to watch that quarter-final and us dying.


Three-time All-Ireland winner Philip Jordan. Picture by Declan Roughan
CO'K: What's it like in the aftermath of the first All-Ireland success?
PJ: The All-Ireland night itself wasn't that great. The Burlington shut up shop at half 2. Everybody actually just went to bed around 3. I remember going through Carrickmacross on the way up home on the Monday and either Banty or Pat McEnaney coming throwing cases of beer in the back of the bus. By the time we got to Omagh everybody was well on.
KH: The Wednesday night was the GOAL game. I woke up in Ardboe club on the Wednesday morning and we all went back at it again. There was another boy from Killeeshil there and he drove me and Brian [McGuigan] up to the GOAL match. We came in the opposite side of Omagh with the two heads out the windows. Mickey saw us coming in and just went 'that's it, you boys aren't playing'. We togged out but only played a few minutes.
PJ: The Sunday we played Cookstown, Mugsy was full-forward, I was centre-half back. About 10 minutes gone, Mugsy says: 'What are ye doing tonight?' I was going 'ah Mugsy, leave it', but he was on for the Glenavon. Me, him and big [Sean] Cavanagh went. Then Mugsy got a man to open the Greenvale. This DJ playing music, about 10 of us in it on our own, on the dancefloor like complete f***ing assholes. Mickey McElhatton left me and big Cavanagh home whatever time it was. He was sleeping and Mickey pulled up beside the door, Sean just kind of tipped over and we pushed him on out, closed the door and away on.

CO'K: Did it regularly go beyond the Monday?
KH: Barring after the All-Ireland, the only Tuesday club I was on was after we beat Kerry in '03. We ended up in Belfast House on the Monday. We woke up on the Tuesday, they'd let us stay in the rooms. Darragh Ó Sé had left six stud marks on my chest in the game. I was working with Willie John Dolan at the time, who was the team sponsor, and I rang in to say 'Ah I'm in wile bad shape here, I think I need to go to casualty'. Genuinely we were gonna go home but we woke up, Mugsy was in the room next to us. We went down and had the cure. On the Monday night, there was a 'band' playing, but it was pretty much a boy on his own doing everything. He was brilliant. He lands in on Tuesday about 12pm to lift his gear and go home, saw that there were six or seven of us, and starts playing again. We went on the drink the whole day Tuesday. We were supposed to be training that night.

CO'K: Was training ever missed?
KH: I think I missed that night, that's the only training we would have missed. I remember having a conversation with Mickey about drink and this is why I never would have missed training. I told him: 'We're young, we're enjoying ourselves. Once it affects us turning up at training, affects our performance, that'll be us'. He reluctantly accepted it. We were 22 or 23 and flying fit. If we drank Sunday and Monday, we'd still have been at training on Tuesday.

CO'K: What impact did it all have on the team's bond?
PJ: We had a team holiday in '02. Eugene McKenna was there but he was gone, Mickey was coming in as manager. There was a batch of us 22, 23 years of age, maybe 15 of us. The craic we had on that holiday was unbelievable. It half made that thing for the next year. You don't know the older boys right but I remember the first night, big Seamie McCallan had to carry [Peter] Canavan home over his shoulder. It broke the ice. He's your hero and there he is being carried home over somebody's shoulder.
KH: There was no doubt about it, it was the best team-building exercise we could have had. We were in Dubai in '03 and Mickey was going: 'We need to do a bit of training here and try to get ready for the McKenna Cup'. We all just made a stand. In Florida in '08, same thing again. We were home on the 5th or whatever, it was a few days later. He played a good few of us. He was making a point. And then we had a fitness test on the Tuesday night at Jordanstown. There was still the whole talk about boys drinking, and I had it in the back of my mind that he was lining us up for a fall. Because I'd said if it ever affected us, we'd quit. We were doing the bleep test and big Sean [Cavanagh], Dooher, those boys that weren't too bad were in the first group. Second group, me and Mugsy. I said to him: 'This is for our benefit, we need to stick at this. Stay beside me and we're not quitting 'til we win this thing'. Sure enough, kept at it. We were dying but we kept at it and at it. Won it. It was either Fergal [McCann] or Mickey came, I can't remember, and just goes: 'How'd yous bastards do that?'



Former Tyrone players Philip Jordan and Kevin Hughes chat with Cahair O'Kane. Picture by Declan Roughan.
CO'K: Were there ever attempts to enforce a ban again after '03?
KH: As we got older, we realised ourselves. The only safety net we had when we were younger was that we're flying fit, we're bouncing out of our skins and it doesn't affect us. And it didn't.
PJ: In '05 we lost the Ulster final replay to Armagh in Dublin. We were staying that night. I actually got concussed in that match. [Paul] McGrane caught me full sock and knocked me cold. Woke up about 15 minutes later and goes 'Horse, who am I marking?' Horse is going 'Holy ghost!' I'm just roaring at him: 'F*** up and tell me who I'm marking', and Paddy McKeever standing right beside me. We were staying in Castleknock Hotel. Me, Louis O'Connor and Ricey ended up in a wine bar, and I asked Ricey what he wanted. 'Get me a gin and tonic'. 'Ricey, it's a wine bar'. 'Get me a gin and tonic'. Got him a glass of white wine. When we got back to the room, me and Davy Harte were sharing. They had us on a different floor to everybody else. Me, Ricey and Louis went up, I got off at the second floor. They went on to the third and as soon as the lift door opened, fire extinguisher. Mugsy. The boys had to all chip in and pay the bill or they were going to ban us from staying there for the next match.

CO'K: Would it have been worth the effort without the craic?
PJ: Our team needed that. We played Armagh in '03 and The Irish News had the Allstars before it. Armagh made a real handling, coming in all stuffy, sat on their own table. John O'Mahony was the speaker and he had to do it after they left. They came in, ate the feed, presentations, photographs and away out the door. Mickey even changed our training to suit it that night. They were so uptight, and we were relaxed, we just went and enjoyed it. There was no drink but you can imagine if you were caught drinking on the Monday in that Armagh squad, you'd have been gone. McGeeney would have taken the head off you the next night at training. It wouldn't have worked for us. We were relaxed going into those finals.

CO'K: The atmosphere has to suit the characters?
KH: That's it. We were used to that. Not that we were big drinkers, but we were just that close a group. After a game, it was like going out with your clubmates. Same thing on a Monday, we'd all meet up.
PJ: I don't think I worked a Monday after a championship match. What year did Donegal beat us, '07? I think that was the first Monday I worked after a championship match. I was doing my exams at the time so I was trying to save days, which was the only reason I hadn't it booked.
KH: Same as that. We would get two weeks in the summer and I'd have taken one and saved the other for Mondays or hopefully All-Ireland week. It brought us together. We were a real tight-knit group

[Jayop]

lol some class stories there.

[omagh_gael]

Just saw this on Twitter...

https://twitter.com/rawomagh/status/1034177789635776512?s=09

Impressive stuff. Tiarnan McCann showing great determination to pull down another man's drawers.

[God14]

Just saw this on Twitter...

https://twitter.com/rawomagh/status/1034177789635776512?s=09

Impressive stuff. Tiarnan McCann showing great determination to pull down another man's drawers.

Meyler is back training anyhow

[Thebigdog]

That programme shows you how great a manager Harte is.
Tyrone were nothing before he came along, (don't say he inherited great players) as Tyrone won two u21s with Canavan etc before that and no All Ireland's. we were bottle merchants on the big stage and no one feared us, as the Kerryman said.
he moulded a team of winners. As well as that he has kept Tyrone at the top table ever since 2003 - take a look at other counties such as Armagh and Derry. The worst Tyrone ever got during his time was Div 2 with straight promotion the following year. The number of trophies he won is incredible.
Anyone who calls for him to go is an idiot, and should be careful for what they wish for.

Of course micky harte will go down as a great manager however to say Tyrone were nothing (which granted is subjective as your nothing may not be as bad as mine) beforehand is a bit harsh. 
- The 6 counties in general didn't perform outside of Ulster with down the only winners until 1993.
-Tyrone in 1986 would win in the modern game as 7 point lead would be mass defended and counter attack the mode of play. 
-1995 should have went to a replay so in my opinion a bit of luck was the ingredient missing up until that time with the u21 all Ireland winners a big part of that team.  Peter the great still being around 8 years later.
-Tyrone as a county are in the top 10 counties for land mass and population so when proper underage coaching was put in place we started to reap the rewards at county and school level. 
- I don't think you can argue with inheritance of players being  major factor as well in our amateur play where you are born sport as i think you will agree he wouldn't have been able to win with Carlow etc.
- I believe good Friday agreement was also a factor in that the ending of the troubles ended a potential avenue for "distraction" away from football
- and probably most importantly he took over 2 years into the back door system which means he certainly wouldn't have won as many all Ireland titles without it and in my opinion wouldn't have lasted as long as he has done without that system in place.
So great manager yes but would Tyrone have won an all Ireland if micky harte had never taken over? I have to believe with all the other factors I've mentioned then yes they would have eventually!

Good observation local expert. From the period 1984 to 2002 Eugene Mckenna won six Ulster titles as player/ Manager plus two All Ireland final apperances through the front and only door aswell as our first senior national title in 2002. Mickey Harte from the period 2003 to now has also won six Ulster titles, only one All Ireland final through the front door aswell as his national league back in the same year. Of course Harte got the All Ireland unlike McKenna. Then the back door came in and really benefited Harte unlike Eugene Mckenna in the 80s and 90s. To think Harte as he said in yesterdays Irish News when confronting the Tyrone county board 'their wasn't much won before I came along!' Unbelievable arrogance and no small distortion of reality.

[Redhand Santa]

That programme shows you how great a manager Harte is.
Tyrone were nothing before he came along, (don't say he inherited great players) as Tyrone won two u21s with Canavan etc before that and no All Ireland's. we were bottle merchants on the big stage and no one feared us, as the Kerryman said.
he moulded a team of winners. As well as that he has kept Tyrone at the top table ever since 2003 - take a look at other counties such as Armagh and Derry. The worst Tyrone ever got during his time was Div 2 with straight promotion the following year. The number of trophies he won is incredible.
Anyone who calls for him to go is an idiot, and should be careful for what they wish for.

Of course micky harte will go down as a great manager however to say Tyrone were nothing (which granted is subjective as your nothing may not be as bad as mine) beforehand is a bit harsh. 
- The 6 counties in general didn't perform outside of Ulster with down the only winners until 1993.
-Tyrone in 1986 would win in the modern game as 7 point lead would be mass defended and counter attack the mode of play. 
-1995 should have went to a replay so in my opinion a bit of luck was the ingredient missing up until that time with the u21 all Ireland winners a big part of that team.  Peter the great still being around 8 years later.
-Tyrone as a county are in the top 10 counties for land mass and population so when proper underage coaching was put in place we started to reap the rewards at county and school level. 
- I don't think you can argue with inheritance of players being  major factor as well in our amateur play where you are born sport as i think you will agree he wouldn't have been able to win with Carlow etc.
- I believe good Friday agreement was also a factor in that the ending of the troubles ended a potential avenue for "distraction" away from football
- and probably most importantly he took over 2 years into the back door system which means he certainly wouldn't have won as many all Ireland titles without it and in my opinion wouldn't have lasted as long as he has done without that system in place.
So great manager yes but would Tyrone have won an all Ireland if micky harte had never taken over? I have to believe with all the other factors I've mentioned then yes they would have eventually!

Good observation local expert. From the period 1984 to 2002 Eugene Mckenna won six Ulster titles as player/ Manager plus two All Ireland final apperances through the front and only door aswell as our first senior national title in 2002. Mickey Harte from the period 2003 to now has also won six Ulster titles, only one All Ireland final through the front door aswell as his national league back in the same year. Of course Harte got the All Ireland unlike McKenna. Then the back door came in and really benefited Harte unlike Eugene Mckenna in the 80s and 90s. To think Harte as he said in yesterdays Irish News when confronting the Tyrone county board 'their wasn't much won before I came along!' Unbelievable arrogance and no small distortion of reality.

That's a great well thought out point thebigdog, well done. If we all ignore the 3 all Ireland senior titles, 2 u21 all Irelands and 1 minor all Ireland won by Harte he really hasn't done anything that no one else before did. And wasn't it great that they brought the back door in to benefit Harte, it definitely gave Tyrone an unfair advantage over all the counties playing the same system. We should also assume that under the old system Tyrone wouldn't have done any better the years they won ulsters under Harte.

The backdoor was there in 2002 before Harte came along, we lost to Sligo.

[mick999]

Gaelic Weekly Live had a chat show about the match last night in Trillick

https://www.facebook.com/GaelicWeeklyLive/videos/687308244959236/?tn-str=k*F

[omagh_gael]

Tickets sorted for upper Davin row h so happy enough. Gives good weather for weekend too. Excitement building.