Dublin v Mayo, Croke Park, March 20 (or maybe the 18th, you wouldn't know).

[REDCOL]

Just watched the match again three of the goals came from turnovers from Aidan Campbell. He adds a physical presence but his distribution is shocking and is clearly not a consistent free taker or point scorer. He lost a world of ball all through.

The fourth goal came from Kevin Mc Loughlin not tracking a runner for the second match running, while Kevin is a fine player he cannot forget his defensive duties.

The positives are the performance of the two inside men who caused havoc.

[heffo]

Happy with the win.

But that wasnt real Gaelic Football. Utterly highlighted  why neither side has won All-Irelands recently.

Good to watch but zero defending at either end.

How many players that started against Cork in the All-Ireland semi started today?

Three

True Heffo but its largely going to be the same 15 that played against Cork based on today. Not sure thats a good thing. Connolly and Quinn are pushing hard up front but bar that not sure anyone else really is.

That's not the feedback I'm getting Indiana.

Don't think too many of those lads (some of which aren't even third choice as lined out today) will see much championship football.

I meant from the Cork game last year Smokey. I think Nelson has an outside chance in the backs. But we need all of Fitzsimons, O Carroll jnr fit for championship.

Would be great to win the league.

Sorry must've picked you up wrong!.

Think Nelson did well last week in the second half after he came on and well today in the first half but was poor after getting a heavy knock.

Casey will not feature much, P Brogan will not feature, D Daly will be 3rd/4th choice corner back (think he's a better wing back myself), Murray is a fine footballer and kept three successive full forwards (O'Neill, Donaghy & Finlay) all scoreless from play but think he will be behind the two O'Carrolls come championship.

No harm in B Brogam having the day off. He went up to NY after meeting Obama and had a bit of a break - he's played a fair bit of football already.

[moysider]

That's not the feedback I'm getting Indiana.

Don't think too many of those lads (some of which aren't even third choice as lined out today) will see much championship football.

Bloody hell. It's bad enough to see that we conceded 4-4 in 15 minutes but against the Dubs 4th string to add insult to injury. Bernard Brogan would have caused mayhem today.

Well that s the reality for us as things stand anyway. All this chopping and changing by Mayo was largely welcomed. And I m not sure I m too pushed either. But maybe it all could have been more structured. I mean was there any point in starting a 5' 8'' fullback on a 6' 2'' full forward? Was this not an opportunity to start either Hallihan or Killeen there and see how a bigger lad got on... or are they not trusted?
Bringing Peadar in a s a sweeper was again a conservative move as was the reselection as McL as a defender. Andy should be the sweeper option. I hope management again shows a bit of imagination like they did for the Galway selection. We re going nowhere with this conservative approach.

[RedandGreenSniper]

Just watched the match again three of the goals came from turnovers from Aidan Campbell. He adds a physical presence but his distribution is shocking and is clearly not a consistent free taker or point scorer. He lost a world of ball all through.

The fourth goal came from Kevin Mc Loughlin not tracking a runner for the second match running, while Kevin is a fine player he cannot forget his defensive duties.

The positives are the performance of the two inside men who caused havoc.

I noticed that myself. I didn't wanna say it because it was a game where there was an unreal amount of unforced errors. Also Tom Cunniffe for the third goal - misreading the high ball - and Robbie Hennelly coming and getting caught for the fourth one were culpaple, although him coming for that was a sign of how much trouble the full-back line was in for the high ball.

On reflection, no one from 1-7 can be happy. I somehow got Higgins mixed up and forgot he was on Connolly while Richie Feeney, although he wasn't under pressure on the back foot, didn't get forward enough in the second half, although he did in the first half.

Why did James Kilcullen not start? I nearly cried when I saw Parsons and McGarrity together in midfield. Can't ever happen again in my opinion. Which means Parsons can't start there because McGarrity must.

For the second week running, too many of our team were out of it in the physical stakes and that was my initial problem with Barrett and Cafferkey and Gardiner. Peadar was blown out of it trying to tackle for one of the goals. We really need physical defenders who are also quick. Not sure if we have them. Would like to see Hallinan full-back next week. I hope Keith Higgins is still recovering from Australia, otherwise our best defender of the last couple of years is in trouble.

[Cosmo Kramer]

Mayo can forget about being back in Croke Park this year if we keep starting games slowly. Also we need to find proper full and centre-backs if we want to do anything any time soon.

According to Mid West this evening Alan Feeney and Donal Vaughan are nearly ready to go (feeney made the subs today). If available I would put them both in against Cork in place of Barrett and Cafferkey. If Clarke is fit I would put him back in goal because I think he'll still end up being our No. 1. Cunniffe Higgins McLoughlin and Feeney as the rest of the defence - I think that line up would shore us up...but its as much about the gameplan as anything, if we let the full back line get isolated like we did in the first half today we'll get beat every day we go out. If our defence plays as a unit we're a match for anyone going forward.

Unless McGarrity gets injured - then we're fucked.

I think we ll find that this is as much a problem of attitude/ethos/ coaching as it is of personnel. I m not sure why people are picking on Cafferkey in particular as I could point the finger at another 3 defenders plus the keeper that were found wanting at some time. Caff has been a success until today anyway and if the first 20 minutes are what we are going on quite a few would be getting stood down. There is no guarantee that the likes of Vaughan and Alan Feeney would have done any better in the circumstances. Chances are that they would not as the whole team started flat anyway. Just goes to show - in case anybody was under any illusion - just how far we have to go. So far Horan has had a look at lots of players, as he promised to do, but we have hardly budged as regards putting out a realistic performance against any serious opposition. There have been some good individual performances and some nice attacking football in games but there has been little to suggest that we have the shape, tactical nous or toughness for summer football to date.

I think Caff is likely to get more flak because of the important position he plays in, its easier to be a wing back than a centre back because you'll rarely be blamed for conceding scores and anything you do going forward is considered a bonus. Your 6 is a real pivotal position and he must be able to protect the full back line, stay strong against opposition running attacks and set up attacking plays himself. Caff doesn't do enough of any of these things for me but he could be worth a run at 7 where physicality is less of an issue. He's a good footballer but I don't think its working out at CHB. These are the kind of things we're better off learning at this time of year though.

Feeney based on his height alone might have prevented a lot of what happened today. There's no point painting the lad as our defensive lynchpin or anything like that because we haven't seen enough of him yet at this level to know how good he is or isn't, but his and Richie's physical attributes are just what we need to bulk up the defence imo. Vaughan was man of the match in so many league games last year before he got injured that he'd have to be accommodated in the team if he can get back to that sort of form. I always thought JOM made a mistake in never trying him at 6 so if he's fit for the next two games he should be given a chance.

[moysider]

Mayo can forget about being back in Croke Park this year if we keep starting games slowly. Also we need to find proper full and centre-backs if we want to do anything any time soon.

According to Mid West this evening Alan Feeney and Donal Vaughan are nearly ready to go (feeney made the subs today). If available I would put them both in against Cork in place of Barrett and Cafferkey. If Clarke is fit I would put him back in goal because I think he'll still end up being our No. 1. Cunniffe Higgins McLoughlin and Feeney as the rest of the defence - I think that line up would shore us up...but its as much about the gameplan as anything, if we let the full back line get isolated like we did in the first half today we'll get beat every day we go out. If our defence plays as a unit we're a match for anyone going forward.

Unless McGarrity gets injured - then we're fucked.

I think we ll find that this is as much a problem of attitude/ethos/ coaching as it is of personnel. I m not sure why people are picking on Cafferkey in particular as I could point the finger at another 3 defenders plus the keeper that were found wanting at some time. Caff has been a success until today anyway and if the first 20 minutes are what we are going on quite a few would be getting stood down. There is no guarantee that the likes of Vaughan and Alan Feeney would have done any better in the circumstances. Chances are that they would not as the whole team started flat anyway. Just goes to show - in case anybody was under any illusion - just how far we have to go. So far Horan has had a look at lots of players, as he promised to do, but we have hardly budged as regards putting out a realistic performance against any serious opposition. There have been some good individual performances and some nice attacking football in games but there has been little to suggest that we have the shape, tactical nous or toughness for summer football to date.

I think Caff is likely to get more flak because of the important position he plays in, its easier to be a wing back than a centre back because you'll rarely be blamed for conceding scores and anything you do going forward is considered a bonus. Your 6 is a real pivotal position and he must be able to protect the full back line, stay strong against opposition running attacks and set up attacking plays himself. Caff doesn't do enough of any of these things for me but he could be worth a run at 7 where physicality is less of an issue. He's a good footballer but I don't think its working out at CHB. These are the kind of things we're better off learning at this time of year though.

Feeney based on his height alone might have prevented a lot of what happened today. There's no point painting the lad as our defensive lynchpin or anything like that because we haven't seen enough of him yet at this level to know how good he is or isn't, but his and Richie's physical attributes are just what we need to bulk up the defence imo. Vaughan was man of the match in so many league games last year before he got injured that he'd have to be accommodated in the team if he can get back to that sort of form. I always thought JOM made a mistake in never trying him at 6 so if he's fit for the next two games he should be given a chance.

I m sure everybody will be given a chance. But I remember Vaughan (and dont get me wrong I like Vaughan) trying hard last year but still a bit raw. That s the thing about this time of year. A player is nearly better off injured and not being exposed from week to week. Your currency goes up. Feeney s height could have made a difference. But there was the option to go with other big lads like Killeen or Hallihan. I mean they are in the panel. I take your point about CHB but we had the same problem there last year. Caff or Howley can only be in one place no matter how well they move or read the game. Antbody else remember James Nallen being the patsy in 06 although the problems was primarily elsewhere.ie, Midfield, breaking ball, fb lione and overall intensity.
The reality is Seamus Moynihan in his prime at 6 would not solve Mayo defensive problems. Nor would a Francie Bellew at 3. We re set up like a junior club/ underage set of defenders - not strictly true as most teams give a good deal of thought how they set up. It looks like Horan may have just maybe got too caught up with rejigging his line up from week to week and has taken his eye off other important stuff. It s all very well knowing your own panel inside out but you have to be able to pick a team that can cope with the opposition as well. The last 2 weeks  it appeared - and I m probably wrong here that the mayo team was picked regardless of the opposition they were facing.
Contrast that to likes of Armagh last week. Even the much maligned O Rourke seemed to have put some thought into tactics and match-ups. eg, Billy Joe marks Dillon and McKeever sits 10 yards behind as a safety net. McKeevere he picks moments to punch forward ( kicking one of the last points). When he goes forward somebody tucks back. Not everybodys cup of tea but if your going to compete you have to do at least some of this shit. Kerry do and if they stoop so low..... Peadar s role today was not tight enough for what is needed.

[Milltown Row2]

So based on that game today (Mayo posters) do you think that Mayo justify their favouritism for the Connacht Championship?

Galway put a bit of a show up today but way off the mark all year, Roscommon are 6/1 to lift it again this year behind Sligo!!

[RedandGreenSniper]

So based on that game today (Mayo posters) do you think that Mayo justify their favouritism for the Connacht Championship?

Galway put a bit of a show up today but way off the mark all year, Roscommon are 6/1 to lift it again this year behind Sligo!!

Roscommon are a great bet for me to win Connacht.

[Barney]

Just in the door still fuming from that farce.

No we won't win Connacht and Galway with a fullset of forwards will beat us. Then a half decent team will knock us out come July. This is the reality we must live with.

These problems in defence have been there for at least 7 years now. Whatever about personnel a new management has come in and we still play the same stupid football. What is the plan? Follow the ball?

And talk of 'it's only the league', trying fellas out etc is another ready made excuse we are fartoo willing to easily hang to in the hope that without fresh thinking or hard work we can break through and consistently challenge. We got luck in 04 and 06 to travel to where we got to. We put ourselves on a different plane while those outside knew the realities. Nobody within Mayo has yet to address those realities. I know I will be laughed at again here and muppet will call me negative but where are the signs of going forward?

We are at our lowest ebb since 1995 and the next few years look stale with players plateauing at the age of 22/23 instead of thriving. We need a hungry bunch but a management set-up that come up with a style of play to get over our weaknesses. I don't want to be here in2/3 years time raising the same points but seems probable right now.

[moysider]

So based on that game today (Mayo posters) do you think that Mayo justify their favouritism for the Connacht Championship?

Galway put a bit of a show up today but way off the mark all year, Roscommon are 6/1 to lift it again this year behind Sligo!!

Roscommon are a great bet for me to win Connacht.

Agree. Galway most likely to do enough to win it though, imo. I thought we were on the right track with our selection before Galway. An opportunity to consolidate lost imo.

[Milltown Row2]

OK for the Dubs here, being unbeaten so far and having taken some great scalps along the way. Why do Paddy Power have Dublin at 11/10 to win the Leinster SFC this year? Surely they are a shoe in. Kildare while having been great last season i don't think they are a better team and with Dublin losing out last year will be looking for the shorter route to the quarter finals.

[ross4life]

So based on that game today (Mayo posters) do you think that Mayo justify their favouritism for the Connacht Championship?

Galway put a bit of a show up today but way off the mark all year, Roscommon are 6/1 to lift it again this year behind Sligo!!

Roscommon are a great bet for me to win Connacht.

We are great odds but that's where it stops! where a Div 4 team while Sligo are Div 2 & Galway,Mayo are Div 1

We managed to pull of almighty shock last summer but where still a long way from competing with the best in connacht.

[Cosmo Kramer]

I actually think we do justify our favourites tag in Connacht this year, but only because the standard in the province (and I include ourselves in this) is so shit.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Anyone predicting us to win Connacht must be smoking their own and Ming's supply. Not that the standard in Connacht is all that hectic but don't see how we are going to turn around a run of form that is probably going to see us lose every league game this year.

[moysider]

Just in the door still fuming from that farce.

No we won't win Connacht and Galway with a fullset of forwards will beat us. Then a half decent team will knock us out come July. This is the reality we must live with.These problems in defence have been there for at least 7 years now. Whatever about personnel a new management has come in and we still play the same stupid football. What is the plan? Follow the ball?
And talk of 'it's only the league', trying fellas out etc is another ready made excuse we are fartoo willing to easily hang to in the hope that without fresh thinking or hard work we can break through and consistently challenge. We got luck in 04 and 06 to travel to where we got to. We put ourselves on a different plane while those outside knew the realities. Nobody within Mayo has yet to address those realities. I know I will be laughed at again here and muppet will call me negative but where are the signs of going forward?

We are at our lowest ebb since 1995 and the next few years look stale with players plateauing at the age of 22/23 instead of thriving. We need a hungry bunch but a management set-up that come up with a style of play to get over our weaknesses. I don't want to be here in2/3 years time raising the same points but seems probable right now.

You are of course correct Barney. But over the next months we will get selections on here that should start championship. We re caught up in this 'cult of the starter'. I know some people wont like this but maybe James Horan has kinda fallen into this trap, if you take his selections at face value. I know I m probably in the minority here but I think he should have built a team during the league - not look at loads of different players in different games. He did well on rebuilding  - up to a point. If he added a sweeper to the Galway selection he could have had worked on getting something up there with the best around defensively and counter-attack. Remember Freeman had to come back in there as well. I wouldn t be too despondent because he still has that template if he wants to use it ( and he ll be foolish if he does not). By Summer he should have the option of 2 O Sés to go with Ronan at midfield. He needs to sort out his freetaking. Likes of Barry Moran might be an option as well. I m kinda hopin he knows what his best team is roughly (roughly Galway with Ronan and an O Sé + Freeman), but will keep it under wraps for a while yet. That would be a wise move. No point giving opposition too much homework so early in the year.