Is it about time we grew up and stopped gloating about England's misfortunes?

[Maguire01]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

The British people in Northern Ireland retain a veto over any settlement. They've accepted the current one, which is great. The killing has stopped. But should the time come when a majority in Northern Ireland support a united Ireland, you can expect violence and don't expect the British to abandon their own.

Ah c'mon, if a referendum was passed, the UK government would NOT support a violent uprising from loyalists. Not a mission.

[laoislad]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

The British people in Northern Ireland retain a veto over any settlement. They've accepted the current one, which is great. The killing has stopped. But should the time come when a majority in Northern Ireland support a united Ireland, you can expect violence and don't expect the British to abandon their own.

I agree with some of that. We can definitely expect violence, but the key question is whether the British consider the "British" in NI as their own any more. The Brits have decided they have no strategic interest in remaining in control of the North. Otherwise there would have been no Good Friday agreement. They have no emotional attachment to those in the North calling themselves British. Any violent opposition to reunification if/when the time comes will be in direct opposition to British state policy. Will they really support that?

I seem to recall reading in several sources that Loyalist would go to war if Britain pulled out of the north to go it alone, rather than be part of a united Ireland.

That was in the 1990s though, don't know what the current thinking is.

Give them Tyrone and let them have it as their own little country.

[BennyCake]

Loyalists threatened a war 100 years ago if Ireland became independent. Nothing has changed.

[Galwaybhoy]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

[Myles Na G.]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

[Galwaybhoy]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

The term "country" is used to refer to sovereign states.  You can call it what ever floats your boat, I don't get caught up on names when it comes to this island.

So
Republic of Ireland
Free State
the 26 counties
The south
Ireland

Take your pick.

[Myles Na G.]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

The term "country" is used to refer to sovereign states.  You can call it what ever floats your boat, I don't get caught up on names when it comes to this island.

So
Republic of Ireland
Free State
the 26 counties
The south
Ireland

Take your pick.

Any of those, bar the last. Ireland doesn't stop at the border.

[Hardy]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

The term "country" is used to refer to sovereign states.  You can call it what ever floats your boat, I don't get caught up on names when it comes to this island.

So
Republic of Ireland
Free State
the 26 counties
The south
Ireland

Take your pick.

Any of those, bar the last. Ireland doesn't stop at the border.

OK. Just for you, we'll tear up all those international treaties with our country's name on them.

What would you like us to call ourselves? We won't bother with a referendum or anything. Just give us the word. The will of the Irish people is as nothing compared to the whim of Myles Na G.

[Myles Na G.]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

The term "country" is used to refer to sovereign states.  You can call it what ever floats your boat, I don't get caught up on names when it comes to this island.

So
Republic of Ireland
Free State
the 26 counties
The south
Ireland

Take your pick.

Any of those, bar the last. Ireland doesn't stop at the border.

OK. Just for you, we'll tear up all those international treaties with our country's name on them.

What would you like us to call ourselves? We won't bother with a referendum or anything. Just give us the word. The will of the Irish people is as nothing compared to the whim of Myles Na G.

I've already said, anything you like so long as it's not Ireland. Your state may be the largest part of the country called Ireland, but it's still only a part. Bit greedy to try and claim the whole thing, do you not think?

[muppet]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

The term "country" is used to refer to sovereign states.  You can call it what ever floats your boat, I don't get caught up on names when it comes to this island.

So
Republic of Ireland
Free State
the 26 counties
The south
Ireland

Take your pick.

Any of those, bar the last. Ireland doesn't stop at the border.

OK. Just for you, we'll tear up all those international treaties with our country's name on them.

What would you like us to call ourselves? We won't bother with a referendum or anything. Just give us the word. The will of the Irish people is as nothing compared to the whim of Myles Na G.

I've already said, anything you like so long as it's not Ireland. Your state may be the largest part of the country called Ireland, but it's still only a part. Bit greedy to try and claim the whole thing, do you not think?

Great Ireland?

[All of a Sludden]

[Syferus]

This isn't 1981 anymore. The world has moved on and there are just as many nationalists as loyalists who are willing to wallow in the empty rhetoric of the past. All they're doing is making what they want become more of a remote possibility by pushing away the very people they need to get on side to make a united Ireland a reality.

Another line of reasoning I've never understood, i.e. the idea that Irish Nationalism can somehow turn Unionists towards the possibility of a united Ireland by being less nationalistic. Can you elaborate on how that's meant to work?

Now that both sides have (mostly) stopped trying to make play-dough of each other the question for nationalists is how to they get a united Ireland with the chess board set as it is today.

They have to put the single-minded obsession with a united Ireland to one side and work on building a north that's more inclusive and less divided along old political and religious lines. They have to genuinely make northern Ireland the best society it can be within the United Kingdom before the divisions of the past really start to ease and moderate unionists start to forget what they were so afraid of to begin with.

It might take generations but that is literally the only way the north will ever become part of the republic and so not doing everything in your power to not throw out stupid, childish language like 'occupied six counties' just pours more concrete on the very things that need to be removed before a united Ireland is ever realised.

How do those people expect to ever get the future they want by living in the past?

[Galwaybhoy]

I don't mind England and I do have more interest when they are playing but I don't like to see them win.  It's rivalry, I don't wish them any harm or anything like that.  What I don't understand is why so many people talk about immaturity when people in this country cheer against England (normally non-football fans say this) but yet it seems to be perfectly acceptable for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to shout against England.

However there are instances when England will have my full support - Normally against Northern Ireland and Australia in football and anytime they play New Zealand, Australia or South Africa in Rugby.

'this country'? You mean the 26 county state? Hardly a country.

The term "country" is used to refer to sovereign states.  You can call it what ever floats your boat, I don't get caught up on names when it comes to this island.

So
Republic of Ireland
Free State
the 26 counties
The south
Ireland

Take your pick.

Any of those, bar the last. Ireland doesn't stop at the border.

I never mentioned Ireland in my original post only the word country so unless you don't believe the 26 county state is a country I don't know why you attacked my post.  Seems like you were looking for any reason to pounce. 

[Rossfan]

This isn't 1981 anymore. The world has moved on and there are just as many nationalists as loyalists who are willing to wallow in the empty rhetoric of the past. All they're doing is making what they want become more of a remote possibility by pushing away the very people they need to get on side to make a united Ireland a reality.

Another line of reasoning I've never understood, i.e. the idea that Irish Nationalism can somehow turn Unionists towards the possibility of a united Ireland by being less nationalistic. Can you elaborate on how that's meant to work?

Now that both sides have (mostly) stopped trying to make play-dough of each other the question for nationalists is how to they get a united Ireland with the chess board set as it is today.

They have to put the single-minded obsession with a united Ireland to one side and work on building a north that's more inclusive and less divided along old political and religious lines. They have to genuinely make northern Ireland the best society it can be within the United Kingdom before the divisions of the past really start to ease and moderate unionists start to forget what they were so afraid of to begin with.

It might take generations but that is literally the only way the north will ever become part of the republic and so not doing everything in your power to not throw out stupid, childish language like 'occupied six counties' just pours more concrete on the very things that need to be removed before a united Ireland is ever realised.

How do those people expect to ever get the future they want by living in the past?

You'd want to have a chat with Peter Robinson,McCausland, Ruth Patterson, ad nauseum not to mention pricks like Allister and the fleggers too Syfín as they are the people who are mainly against inclusiveness etc.
I'm not aware of any Nationalist Party talking about the "occupied 6 Cos" any more.
There will be more people from a Catholic/Nationalist/Irish background in the 6 Cos in another 15 or so years ( 2011 census 43% to 48%).
The GFA talks about a "majority of the people of Northern Ireland" changing the status of the place NOT a majority of any one tribe.
Someone had figures on another thread recently showing that the majority of U40s are from the C/N/Irish background.
What will the Unionist MINORITY do then - look for a re partition? or start using their loaf and look for the best deal possible.

[lynchbhoy]

But we've sorted that. The British are now onside for a United Ireland. It's only Irish people who are opposing it now.

Completely agree

It's not a foregone conclusion that the south would vote yes to that referendum.

There will have to be a lot of financial economic things sorted out first- north and south
- healthcare, pensions , welfare etc
But equally that we get investment, investment in jobs and job creation in border and northern/outlying areas
Plus compo from Brit gov and possibly EU

Money will satisfy all

Apart from the couple of thousand left opposed to reunification
- they wouldn't have the nous or expertise to mount anything more than a riot - and even then anything they'd do wouldn't be sustainable.
The IRA with all their money, expertise and support were finding it increasingly difficult in latter years , such was the increase in surveillance technology.
There will be no violent reaction from unionists/loyalists ( those that don't flee to Scotland/England) they would soon be snuffed out in the unlikely event if there was