America`s Gun Culture

Started by Wildweasel74, December 14, 2012, 06:00:57 PM

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stew

Quote from: The Iceman on October 01, 2015, 10:42:39 PM
13 reported dead so far - fI can't wrap my head around why anyone would do it - just snuff out innocent lives like that  - there is no reason

There is, every single shooter was a fox network watchin, gun totin, redneck, trump supportin far right nutjob, just ask 99% of the liberals on here!
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

J70

Quote from: stew on October 02, 2015, 01:30:05 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 01, 2015, 10:42:39 PM
13 reported dead so far - fI can't wrap my head around why anyone would do it - just snuff out innocent lives like that  - there is no reason

There is, every single shooter was a fox network watchin, gun totin, redneck, trump supportin far right nutjob, just ask 99% of the liberals on here!

Don't think I've ever read anything close to that here.

The issue with the Fox News/NRA crowd is their complete and utter unwillingness to cede even a inch towards doing something about free, unchecked, access to guns by anyone and everyone.

The only chance of any action being taken would be if this shooter turned out to be a muslim.

Gabriel_Hurl



muppet

This is how the police treated those who survived the shooting:


MWWSI 2017

LeoMc

Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 12:32:37 PM
This is how the police treated those who survived the shooting:




Are you criticising how they handled this?
In the immediate aftermath they cannot be sure if it was a lone gunman or if he had an accomplice. If it later emerged that they had let the primary shooter out without securing the area they would be criticised.


J70

I've been through active shooter drills and that is exactly how you are supposed to respond - walking out with hands up. In that situation the cops have no idea who is a threat and who isn't.

muppet

Quote from: LeoMc on October 02, 2015, 01:23:17 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 12:32:37 PM
This is how the police treated those who survived the shooting:




Are you criticising how they handled this?
In the immediate aftermath they cannot be sure if it was a lone gunman or if he had an accomplice. If it later emerged that they had let the primary shooter out without securing the area they would be criticised.

"We arrived to find multiple patients in multiple classrooms. Law enforcement was on scene and had the shooter neutralized," said Douglas County Fire Marshal Ray Shoufler.

They don't line people up in the car park, where a shooter could pick them off, while the shooting is still going on. The shooting was long over when the photos were taken. Also, if the argument for legalising guns, is that everyone should have a gun to save them from bad men, what exactly are the police searching for?

MWWSI 2017

muppet

Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2015, 01:30:12 PM
I've been through active shooter drills and that is exactly how you are supposed to respond - walking out with hands up. In that situation the cops have no idea who is a threat and who isn't.

Guilty until proven innocent?

Also, are they not risking lining up civilian targets for a shooter?

Look at the body language of the cops in the first photo. Do they look like they believe they are in immediate danger from one of those in front of them?
MWWSI 2017

Last Man

America is just bonkers, this is just the cops being seen to be mitigating against the risk of another shooter or accomplice, "don't worry people we have the situation under control, panic over". All for show. It astounds me as a sizeable and influential chunk of the population how the American police force are not kicking up merry hell in favour of gun control. Just listened to a local girl interviewed who was looking forward to her 21st birthday and her concealed firearm permit suggesting this wouldnt have happened if more people were carrying :o. Compulsory quick draw training in elementary school is probably the next move. What must life be like for Liberals living there, cheek by jowel with so many mad bastiches who would advocate that this is worth it.

AZOffaly

Muppet, you're mad to have a go at the cops. In this scenario, that's just standard practice. They have to make sure they see hands so there's no other shooters. No one is cuffed, or arrested, it's just standard safety practice at a shooting scene where you don't know if there was an accomplice or not.

Puckoon

Of all the dumb shit that happens in America, and all the dumb shit that cops have done recently - there is no argument to be made criticizing the actions of the police in these pictures. I can imagine the faux incredulity that would be spewing forth if the cops just let everyone paddle on out and then a second shooter made mincemeat of a large bolus of people on a bus or parking lot. Unfortunately NOTHING seems to be outside the realm of possibility when it comes to gun violence and mass shootings in this f**king country, so what the f**k would make anyone complain about a little diligence - granted, diligence in the absence of any sort of f**king gun control at all.

J70

Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2015, 01:30:12 PM
I've been through active shooter drills and that is exactly how you are supposed to respond - walking out with hands up. In that situation the cops have no idea who is a threat and who isn't.

Guilty until proven innocent?

Also, are they not risking lining up civilian targets for a shooter?

Look at the body language of the cops in the first photo. Do they look like they believe they are in immediate danger from one of those in front of them?

Who is talking about guilt? It's about getting people out safely and making sure no one is carrying a weapon or has a chance to draw one. Just what would you have them do?

As for lining them up,  it depends on where they are doing the search, doesn't it? These mass murderers generally don't attack crowds filled with armed cops. They may already have killed him by then. But again,  what would you have them do.

This is about saving lives, not worrying about hurt feelings.


muppet

Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2015, 02:59:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 01:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 02, 2015, 01:30:12 PM
I've been through active shooter drills and that is exactly how you are supposed to respond - walking out with hands up. In that situation the cops have no idea who is a threat and who isn't.

Guilty until proven innocent?

Also, are they not risking lining up civilian targets for a shooter?

Look at the body language of the cops in the first photo. Do they look like they believe they are in immediate danger from one of those in front of them?

Who is talking about guilt? It's about getting people out safely and making sure no one is carrying a weapon or has a chance to draw one. Just what would you have them do?

As for lining them up,  it depends on where they are doing the search, doesn't it? These mass murderers generally don't attack crowds filled with armed cops. They may already have killed him by then. But again,  what would you have them do.

This is about saving lives, not worrying about hurt feelings.

FFS! Isn't the whole problem that people are ALLOWED to carry guns. Why make sure no one is carrying a gun, AFTER a shooting?

As for what would I have them do? Either there is a threat or not. Get them as far away as possible, as quickly as possible, and thus to safety. If they believed there is a shooter, then they simply lined everyone up as cannon fodder. As Last Man said it is just for show.

AZ I am not 'mad to have a go at the cops'. My issue is with gun control and the complete lunacy of it. Everyone is allowed guns, until someone fires one, in which case every ordinary citizen is lined up, with their hands on their heads, until they prove they are not the (already dead) shooter. How do they prove this? By not having a gun? Think about this please instead of throwing 'you are mad to have a go..' at me.
MWWSI 2017

J70

Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:17:46 PM

FFS! Isn't the whole problem that people are ALLOWED to carry guns. Why make sure no one is carrying a gun, AFTER a shooting?

Obviously to make sure the threat is gone or contained inside the building, no? And those who are carrying a piece will obviously have to tell the cop and produce their permit. One would assume that further investigation or interviews would be necessary to rule out any participation.

Quote from: muppet on October 02, 2015, 03:17:46 PM

As for what would I have them do? Either there is a threat or not. Get them as far away as possible, as quickly as possible, and thus to safety. If they believed there is a shooter, then they simply lined everyone up as cannon fodder. As Last Man said it is just for show.

You don't understand that in a real time situation that they might not know if there is still a threat? These mass shooters don't always work alone.

And how do you know that they were not safe in whatever location these checks were taking place? Where is "safe" in your opinion? Where might they not be at risk to be cannon fodder? Are you just going have them run randomly in all directions just in case there is a sniper up in a tree somewhere? How would you control the situation to ensure that the gunman or gunmen did not escape to kill some more?