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Messages - Lubo Moravcik

#1
Quote from: Horse Box on Today at 12:03:49 PMYou don`t hear anything on Western Media about the shelling that occurred of ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine long before the war kicked off , the ethnic cleansing of these areas also . The shelling of civilian areas in Donetsk and Belgorod ( Russia ) since the start of the war either .

One of the most disturbing things is the Ukrainian Press Gangs , dragging people of the streets and forcing them into the Army . One place this has happened alot is transcarpathia a region with a large ethnic Hungarian community . To the Ukrainians it is a good way to cull the Hungarians as most of them would like the area to be part of Hungary .

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30122

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20240301/281883008288800





Independent free-thinking 'researcher' who claims you only hear pro-Ukrainian narratives from the mainstream media proceeds to cite the Irish Dail Mail and the New York Times to support his anti-Ukrainian stance on things.

Nice of you to wade into the debate with a self-own. Quite something.
#2
Quote from: theskull1 on Today at 06:21:06 PMWill you be proud to send our sons and daughters to the Russian front lads? Powers that be want to move us away from remaining neutral (see Barry Andrews MEP 2022 Doc)

https://x.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1795114969433850030?t=oOd5jB-LpFA_JuEoE9hm-w&s=19

Ukraine is not asking for boots on the ground, just military and financial aid. They can do the job themselves with the right backing. Another pro-Russian favourite from you, 'why yiz not at the front yourselves lads?'.

Why ye not in Gaza or the West Bank, Skull?
#3
Quote from: theskull1 on Today at 02:42:14 PMThe US (and whoever is influencing their politicians) has involved themselves in too many wars, coups, proxy wars for me
 (it's endless) to believe anything that supports their narrative. Paranoia can be a healthy defensive position to take against outside threats, so it's not surprising to me they reacted. The lack of diplomatic engagement efforts by the west has been striking to me.   
   
Would never call any side intrinsically good.


So I've outlined to you why Russia's NATO narrative is complete nonsense, doesn't make any sense, you can't rebut any of it and just revert to 'America bad'. That's about it. Max, Jeffrey and co. have the easiest job in the world.

p.s. It's the good guys vs the bad guys, invaded vs the invaders, victims vs the aggressors (occupiers, murderers, bombers, rapists, looters, kidnappers, head choppers, castrators, torturers). Hope that helps you.
#4
Quote from: theskull1 on Today at 01:20:09 PMNo acknowledgement that bringing an army up to a border (after years of US backed revolution and conflict in that said country) is an act of aggression.  ::)

One side good ..... the other side bad



Ok then, let's deal with the NATO nonsense once and for all.

First of all Ukraine isn't in NATO and wasn't about to join anytime soon. It had neutral status which it's parliament only voted to end in December 2014 AFTER Russia invaded. A pretty good reason if you ask me. Ukraine's road to NATO was not guaranteed in any case with all member stated having to agree (Hungary anyone?).

Is NATO a threat to Russia? Russia loves reminding everyone it has nuclear weapons and it's not afraid to use them. Yet somehow we are all expected to believe that NATO was planning to attack Russia. Russia has had NATO on it's borders since 1999 (Poland) and again in 2004 (Baltics). When is this aggressive attack coming Skull? Finland joined NATO and Russia couldn't really care less. In fact they removed some of their military equipment from the Finnish border to Ukraine such is the grave danger of Finland's NATO membership. 

Free thinking 'researchers' love to cite that the US has broken a 'promise' to Russia regarding NATO not expanding. Two points about this which you can tell the 'researchers' again and again and again but they always forget and repeat it anyway.

First a conservation over dinner is not an international agreement (unlike the actual agreements Ukraine had with Russia to respect it's borders).

Second - the discussion was specifically about the reunification of Germany and NATO expansion into former DDR territory after reunification. James Baker told Gorbachev not one inch (which they have stuck to). The other countries weren't even considered as the Warsaw pact was still in place and the USSR hand't yet collapse. Why would it even be discussed or considered. Gorbachev even confirms all this in an interview later. 'Researchers' can easily find this interview online but they don't seem to be able to for some reason.

As it happens - the USSR collapsed and the former Warsaw Pact countries one after another all applied to join NATO. Democratic governments. Mearsheimer with his morally bankrupt theories of Russian power would deny the NATO security blanket to millions of people. The Baltics would already have had the Ukraine and Georgia treatment if not for NATO.

Which brings us to the question of why does Russia REALLY not want Ukraine to join NATO. It's simple really - once inside they're untouchable. Not because of a fictional NATO attack, not because of Nazis (we can go there if you want) and certainly not because of any fictional ethnic cleansing of Russians in the Donbas region (and now fictional ethnic cleansing in Transcarpathia according to 'researcher' Horsebox).

So yes Skull, One side good, one side bad. That's the status you reserve only for 'Palestine - Israel' but in your denial of the Ukrainian right to be free from Russian aggression once and for all you only expose yourself as a hypocrite.

Edit: I forgot to add, such was NATOs desire for aggression and confrontation with Russia that one of the leaders of NATO (Germany) was pursuing a policy of economic cooperation and mutual benefit with Russia, even going so far as to build another direct gas pipeline with them.


#5
Quote from: burdizzo on Today at 11:40:05 AM
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on Today at 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on Today at 09:08:11 AMPoor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.

Whoa let all that bile out there Burdizzo, let it out. Maybe you'll feel better and lay off of the refugees for a while.

The mainstream 'narrative' shifts and changes as the war changes. Remember when Ukraine wouldn't last 3 weeks against Russia?

Can you point me to a mainstream news source that says Ukraine is definitely going to win this war? The best I've seen is that they 'can' win. Nobody is under any illusion of the difficulty of achieving that.

The Russian army has shown vast levels of incompetence but it's acknowledged that they have learned, adapted and gotten better as the war progressed.

Are you denying Russia is corrupt? Was Alexei Navalny deluded about the levels of corruption in Russia?

Are you denying Russia uses conscription and shows callous disregard for the welfare of their soldiers?

Quite a few civilian targets, weren't civilians targets? Which ones? The shopping malls, maternity hospitals or the civilian apartment blocks?

Can't wait to get over to History Legends and do some 'research' ;)










No bile in my post, Lubo. And, no, I don't deny that Russia is corrupt, or that they have conscripts. However, the same is true of Ukraine - but I would say Ukraine is probably more careless with the lives of its soldiers, throwing poorly trained conscripts into 'cauldrons' and hopeless situations to hold the line while the more elite units retreat.
Of course, Russia tells lies, too - and I realise Putin is not our friend - but to depict Ukraine as the all-virtuous one is too much to swallow.

Oh yeah - I do believe one of the "civilian targets" was in fact a military meeting. Also, Ukraine blamed Russia for an attack on a marketplace that turned out to have been their own missile. I realise it's war, so propaganda and lies are part of it all, but you really should take a lot of it with a pinch of salt.

Welcome to the upside down world of Russian propaganda. This is what the 'researchers' come up with when they set off on their missions for the 'truth'.  I've a feeling I'm going to hear the word 'cauldron' a lot when I finally get round to visiting 'History Legends, but let's see.

Not one single Ukrainian would have been conscripted (or Russian) if Russia had not invaded. Not one single Ukrainian (or Russian) would have died if Russia had not invaded. And still, over two years later, we still have this delusional rubbish.

So out of hundreds of attacks on civilians and thousands of deaths you have managed two examples. Military meeting? Was that like the Hamas military meeting in the Rafah camp two nights ago?

The marketplace - I think I remember the one you mean - there's been so many it's hard to know. Something vague about a 'shadow' meaning it was definitely the Ukrainians (in the eyes of a Blumenthal). Even if it was a stray air defense, ask yourself, why is the firing of air defense missiles necessary in the first place.

#6
Quote from: johnnycool on Today at 10:32:15 AMWord on the streets is that in North Down Alex Easton will be the "unified" Unionist candidate (i.e. TUV/Reform and DUP), but if he gets in he'll allocate his Stormont MLA post to a certain Donaghadee Bin Orator..

Alliance maybe planting this seed to scare anyone with a titter of wit away from him.

Tim "Nice but dim" Collins won't cause much of a wave in this area. Doug Beattie has made a major faux pas here in picking a fellow army buddy.




Please anybody win but Tim Collins, even the DUP. Imagine 4-5 years of listening to that ego bloviating on the radio. No thanks.

Edit: that surely can't be serious about the Binman.
#7
Quote from: burdizzo on Today at 09:08:11 AMPoor, brave, righteous, Ukraine is going to win the war. The incompetent, corrupt, and conscripted Russians are using 'human-wave' assaults, and medieval tactics. We must stop Putin before he starts WWIII/ invades the EU.
Also, I'm sure quite a few of the "civilian targets" were not civilian targets, at all. Ukraine is a master of propaganda itself. Perfectly understandable in a war, of course, but it doesn't mean we should report and believe everything Zelensky says as gospel.

Whoa let all that bile out there Burdizzo, let it out. Maybe you'll feel better and lay off of the refugees for a while.

The mainstream 'narrative' shifts and changes as the war changes. Remember when Ukraine wouldn't last 3 weeks against Russia?

Can you point me to a mainstream news source that says Ukraine is definitely going to win this war? The best I've seen is that they 'can' win. Nobody is under any illusion of the difficulty of achieving that.

The Russian army has shown vast levels of incompetence but it's acknowledged that they have learned, adapted and gotten better as the war progressed.

Are you denying Russia is corrupt? Was Alexei Navalny deluded about the levels of corruption in Russia?

Are you denying Russia uses conscription and shows callous disregard for the welfare of their soldiers?

Quite a few civilian targets, weren't civilians targets? Which ones? The shopping malls, maternity hospitals or the civilian apartment blocks?

Can't wait to get over to History Legends and do some 'research' ;)








#8
Quote from: theskull1 on Today at 08:58:40 AMYour caricatured description of 'do your own researchers' Lubo is laughable.

The majority of 'do you're own researchers' suspend belief of anything/anybody until they spend time consuming information from multiple unaligned sources before taking a position and even then keep an open view.

On this topic I listen to the thinking of Glenn Greenwald (System Update), Jeffrey Sachs & John Mearsheimer mainly and compare this to what the main stream want me to think. 

Do your own research folks

The problem with your conclusion to your vast meticulous research is that nothing Mearsheimer (it's all NATOs fault), Greenwald or Sachs says stands up to any scrutiny. (That you even entertain Sachs is laughable).

Can you name a single pro-Ukrainian scholar or source that you 'researched' that provided a counter viewpoint to the opinions of those three?

I'm sure there were actually many since you've done your own 'research'.




#9
Quote from: burdizzo on Today at 08:45:38 AMI would have thought nothing was irrelevant if doing "research". Don't know this Max man, meself, but I do dip into "History Legends" for news on the war. It's not Russian propaganda - far from it - but it does pour ridicule on the mainstream narrative.

What is the 'mainstream narrative'?


#10
How exactly is watching pro-Russian propagandist Max Blumenthal's YouTube videos 'doing your own reseatch'?

Distrust the MSM, but swallow everything Max has to tell you (straight from the Kremlin). Sure Skull, great research there buddy.

Why not find out a little about Max Blumenthal first (religion irrelevant). . Start your research there.



#11
Quote from: theskull1 on May 27, 2024, 08:58:44 PMDeadly strike on Rafah a tragic mishap, Netanyahu says MSM (actually it hasnt even happened on MSNBC)

I believe them

Not sure what your point is - the 'Mainstream media' print and repeat Russian denials and bullshit as well.

Wrong thread?

#12
Quote from: Truthsayer on May 27, 2024, 03:17:37 PM
Quote from: Lubo Moravcik on May 27, 2024, 03:08:22 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 27, 2024, 02:29:32 PMSome of the pictures from the latest Israeli atrocity are really beyond words.

Western media going with 'Israel takes out 2 Hamas leaders' and 'used precision munitions' as their headline is beyond despicable.

Yeah, absolutely deplorable.

Anyone still sticking up for Israel at this point must be dead inside.
It's sponsored genocide. Netenyahu and his cohorts no better than Hitler's Nazis..

I agree but I never use that comparison. You're playing straight into their hands, allows Israeli supporters to divert the conversation straight away to 'anti-semetism'.
#13
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 27, 2024, 04:37:13 PMOn the other hand, the people who are 'too clever to believe the MSM' and 'do their own research' - remember when they were telling us that Putin was stepping in to sort a Nazi problem, or rescuing Ukraine from joining NATO.

Strange how tankies and 'both siders' have gone quiet about these justifications?
Now imagine if Putin had been able to topple Ukraine in 3 days, with a few rusty tanks on the road to Kyiv, as he originally thought.
Would he have realistically have stopped there? I expect he'd already be sorting out Moldova's problem by now.


They've been quiet but they're still there,  believing the same tired old rubbish but mostly too embarrassed to spout it now, after everything Russia has done (and said) these past 2 years.
#14
Quote from: Horse Box on May 27, 2024, 03:23:54 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on May 27, 2024, 02:19:37 PMOn my 'newsfeed' a minute ago was "What countries will Putin invade next?". Some people gobble this rubbish up.

Absolutely , people buy what the Mainstream Media tell you or some Clown will put a Video up on Youtube like the example you have given ( I`ve come across it ) , people are too lazy to do research themselves and see what the reality of the situation is .

Oh yeah and the open-minded non-lazy people's 'own research' typically involves watching a few Max Blumenthal 'investigations' and swallowing his bullshit hook, line and sinker.

Heard of him? I know you have. Skull definitely has. 
#15
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 27, 2024, 02:29:32 PMSome of the pictures from the latest Israeli atrocity are really beyond words.

Western media going with 'Israel takes out 2 Hamas leaders' and 'used precision munitions' as their headline is beyond despicable.

Yeah, absolutely deplorable.

Anyone still sticking up for Israel at this point must be dead inside.