Author Topic: Man Utd Thread:  (Read 4256820 times)

tiempo

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50100 on: May 26, 2022, 05:03:08 PM »
Or... and don't shoot me for suggesting this... can ETH not come in, spend no money and work with/improve the players at his disposal? Is spunking more money at the situation the answer when there are players in situ who are clearly very good players. The Man Utd model of throwing good money after bad is broken, how about biting the bullet and working with the players already assembled at insane cost to change the culture and fortunes of the club?

Utd have in effect a 38 game season next year, and for that they need a squad of 18-20 first team players, cup games are for the fringe lads number 16 onwards, with academy players getting their chance in the cups too, and then bounce off the Juve/Liverpool models, look for out of contract stars and value signings from the lower half of the PL, they need to put a stop to the chronic overspend on transfers and wages, whether they have it or not, its not a healthy model

bigarsedkeeper

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50101 on: May 26, 2022, 05:11:37 PM »
Or... and don't shoot me for suggesting this... can ETH not come in, spend no money and work with/improve the players at his disposal? Is spunking more money at the situation the answer when there are players in situ who are clearly very good players. The Man Utd model of throwing good money after bad is broken, how about biting the bullet and working with the players already assembled at insane cost to change the culture and fortunes of the club?

Utd have in effect a 38 game season next year, and for that they need a squad of 18-20 first team players, cup games are for the fringe lads number 16 onwards, with academy players getting their chance in the cups too, and then bounce off the Juve/Liverpool models, look for out of contract stars and value signings from the lower half of the PL, they need to put a stop to the chronic overspend on transfers and wages, whether they have it or not, its not a healthy model

There's a possibility of 10 players going out the door this summer, mostly ones you want rid of but they still need to be replaced. The players left aren't up to challenging for anything if we're honest about it.

oakleaflad

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50102 on: May 26, 2022, 05:28:56 PM »
All won't go straight away but the team is in need of an overhaul. Think Liverpool under Rodgers to Klopp. There's a few exciting young players there too but would you want them in a dressing room full of disharmony/leaks etc?

Armamike

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50103 on: May 26, 2022, 06:02:00 PM »
The elephant in the room is Ronaldo.  The team was limited but looked a much better unit then Ronaldo arrives and the whole thing goes tits up.  A coincidence?  He obviously still scores goals but at what cost was his signing to the team dynamic and spirit?

Iíd love to know how heís killed the dressing room and the performances of the players from the season before

What do you think is the cause?  They were doing ok last season. Not setting the world alight but at least they looked competent enough.  Why have Fernandez, Maguire, Rashford, Cavani and the rest all gone to pieces this season?
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gawa316

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50104 on: May 26, 2022, 06:04:06 PM »
The elephant in the room is Ronaldo.  The team was limited but looked a much better unit then Ronaldo arrives and the whole thing goes tits up.  A coincidence?  He obviously still scores goals but at what cost was his signing to the team dynamic and spirit?
Total bollox. Yeah Ronaldos the problem. The ultimate professional surrounded by ar5eholes yet the best player off the last decade is the issue. Jesus wept.

Anyone that forms the view that Ronaldo is or was the problem wasn't paying much attention to the latter stages of last season whereby this decline began. Outside of Ronaldo, Degea what players can you say gave 100% effort once Rangnick arrived until his last game game Palace? Its going to take 2 or 3 transfer windows but the clear out needs to begin with at least half a dozen players shipped out and replaced by players that won't down the tools so easily this summer.

I don't think he is part of the major problem at Utd but he does bring some things...the throwing his arms up, laughing when losing, huffing when he is taken off...I wouldn't call that the ultimate professional. Did he refuse to play at any time due to not being the first 11? Did he do any post-match interviews after any of the hidings? Maybe he did but I don't remember him taking on any leadership role and let the likes of De Gea, Bruno, and McTom take the brunt of it. He's been captain throughout his career but I didn't see any leadership qualities (outside his playing ability) during the last year.

Mourne Red

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50105 on: May 26, 2022, 09:43:08 PM »
The elephant in the room is Ronaldo.  The team was limited but looked a much better unit then Ronaldo arrives and the whole thing goes tits up.  A coincidence?  He obviously still scores goals but at what cost was his signing to the team dynamic and spirit?

Iíd love to know how heís killed the dressing room and the performances of the players from the season before

What do you think is the cause?  They were doing ok last season. Not setting the world alight but at least they looked competent enough.  Why have Fernandez, Maguire, Rashford, Cavani and the rest all gone to pieces this season?

As much as I canít stand him but Samuel Luckhurst done a great article in the Manchester Evening News breaks down everything.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-united-news-inside-story-23661212.amp
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 10:29:51 PM by Mourne Red »

Milltown Row2

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50106 on: May 26, 2022, 10:25:49 PM »
The elephant in the room is Ronaldo.  The team was limited but looked a much better unit then Ronaldo arrives and the whole thing goes tits up.  A coincidence?  He obviously still scores goals but at what cost was his signing to the team dynamic and spirit?
Total bollox. Yeah Ronaldos the problem. The ultimate professional surrounded by ar5eholes yet the best player off the last decade is the issue. Jesus wept.
.

Jesus wept indeed. Its a discussion board and we all can have views. Because my tuppence worth is different to your insight doesn't make it bollix.

But you havenít give any tuppence worth? Youíre talking about other players and blah blah but what is it that you know that has made Ronaldo cause the decline?  2nd last year to 6th? Iím not sure how Ronaldo affects Maguire Fernandez (international teammates) and the rest?

Iíd love to know and please donít quote Jamie
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Maroon Manc

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50107 on: May 27, 2022, 10:28:22 AM »
Or... and don't shoot me for suggesting this... can ETH not come in, spend no money and work with/improve the players at his disposal? Is spunking more money at the situation the answer when there are players in situ who are clearly very good players. The Man Utd model of throwing good money after bad is broken, how about biting the bullet and working with the players already assembled at insane cost to change the culture and fortunes of the club?

Utd have in effect a 38 game season next year, and for that they need a squad of 18-20 first team players, cup games are for the fringe lads number 16 onwards, with academy players getting their chance in the cups too, and then bounce off the Juve/Liverpool models, look for out of contract stars and value signings from the lower half of the PL, they need to put a stop to the chronic overspend on transfers and wages, whether they have it or not, its not a healthy model

I mentioned this previously, you'd expect a good chance to come in and get a tune out of a good few players he probably has no interest in keeping.

A lot of talk of De Jong but as it stands United don't have a naturally defensive midfielder who can protect the back 4, can't pretend to have much of an idea of how his Ajax team set up apart from they were similar to what Pep does. 

I'd expect a couple of lesser signings to come in this summer who can fit his system before been upgraded next summer should things go to plan; Klopp did the same in his first summer. I'm interested to see what he does with Maguire, he won't hang around if he's not first choice unlike some others who are happy to take the wages so wouldn't rule him out leaving this summer.

United likely to find out what's happening with Greenwood in next few weeks so imagine they won't make any moves for attacking players until they know his fate. 

Armagh18

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50108 on: May 27, 2022, 10:53:49 AM »
Or... and don't shoot me for suggesting this... can ETH not come in, spend no money and work with/improve the players at his disposal? Is spunking more money at the situation the answer when there are players in situ who are clearly very good players. The Man Utd model of throwing good money after bad is broken, how about biting the bullet and working with the players already assembled at insane cost to change the culture and fortunes of the club?

Utd have in effect a 38 game season next year, and for that they need a squad of 18-20 first team players, cup games are for the fringe lads number 16 onwards, with academy players getting their chance in the cups too, and then bounce off the Juve/Liverpool models, look for out of contract stars and value signings from the lower half of the PL, they need to put a stop to the chronic overspend on transfers and wages, whether they have it or not, its not a healthy model

I mentioned this previously, you'd expect a good chance to come in and get a tune out of a good few players he probably has no interest in keeping.

A lot of talk of De Jong but as it stands United don't have a naturally defensive midfielder who can protect the back 4, can't pretend to have much of an idea of how his Ajax team set up apart from they were similar to what Pep does. 

I'd expect a couple of lesser signings to come in this summer who can fit his system before been upgraded next summer should things go to plan; Klopp did the same in his first summer. I'm interested to see what he does with Maguire, he won't hang around if he's not first choice unlike some others who are happy to take the wages so wouldn't rule him out leaving this summer.

United likely to find out what's happening with Greenwood in next few weeks so imagine they won't make any moves for attacking players until they know his fate.
Again, who will want Maguire unless he takes a huge pay cut? And will the Glazers let an £80m player go for what will likely be peanuts?

Have a strong feeling Greenwood wonít be charged but even so will United want the bad press of him playing again for the club?

Armamike

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50109 on: May 27, 2022, 12:18:54 PM »
The elephant in the room is Ronaldo.  The team was limited but looked a much better unit then Ronaldo arrives and the whole thing goes tits up.  A coincidence?  He obviously still scores goals but at what cost was his signing to the team dynamic and spirit?
Total bollox. Yeah Ronaldos the problem. The ultimate professional surrounded by ar5eholes yet the best player off the last decade is the issue. Jesus wept.
.

Jesus wept indeed. Its a discussion board and we all can have views. Because my tuppence worth is different to your insight doesn't make it bollix.

But you havenít give any tuppence worth? Youíre talking about other players and blah blah but what is it that you know that has made Ronaldo cause the decline?  2nd last year to 6th? Iím not sure how Ronaldo affects Maguire Fernandez (international teammates) and the rest?

Iíd love to know and please donít quote Jamie

Eh, i have.  I'm giving a view as to what could have caused the issues, that's all. Of course i don't know if it was the reason, any more so than anyone else here, and apologies if i hurt anyone's feelings towards Ronaldo.  What's your view on why Man u have fallen back so badly this season?
From doubters to believers again.

thewobbler

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50110 on: May 27, 2022, 03:48:06 PM »
Hereís the thing. Within changing rooms, at the start of a season, most football teams suffer from a little delusion around what theyíre capable of doing i.e. what they might win if they all played to the max of their abilities every single week. But once things get going, within same changing rooms thereís usually a clear realism about where the bar really lies.

Why Ronaldo poses a problem for United is simple enough. The majority of that United squad have been en situ long enough to know the reality vs the expectation of their squad. And that same group will have known from early this season that the addition of Ronaldo wasnít going to extend the bar for their squad. Scoring goals hasnít been an issue for Man Utd for as long as anyone can remember.

So same squad members, before long, have to ponder why their club is paying him such an outrageous wage, why their club is so willing to give him exemptions from games and/or training, and why half their fans are only turning up to watch one player.

óó

If the highest paid players in a changing room are demonstrably better, these situations donít arise.

Man Utd were flailing in the water over this problem the previous few seasons with Pogba. Thor solution was to add more water, in Ronaldo.

Look-Up!

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50111 on: May 27, 2022, 04:48:31 PM »
Hereís the thing. Within changing rooms, at the start of a season, most football teams suffer from a little delusion around what theyíre capable of doing i.e. what they might win if they all played to the max of their abilities every single week. But once things get going, within same changing rooms thereís usually a clear realism about where the bar really lies.

Why Ronaldo poses a problem for United is simple enough. The majority of that United squad have been en situ long enough to know the reality vs the expectation of their squad. And that same group will have known from early this season that the addition of Ronaldo wasnít going to extend the bar for their squad. Scoring goals hasnít been an issue for Man Utd for as long as anyone can remember.

So same squad members, before long, have to ponder why their club is paying him such an outrageous wage, why their club is so willing to give him exemptions from games and/or training, and why half their fans are only turning up to watch one player.

óó

If the highest paid players in a changing room are demonstrably better, these situations donít arise.

Man Utd were flailing in the water over this problem the previous few seasons with Pogba. Thor solution was to add more water, in Ronaldo.
All very true wobbler but I think the problems started with Sanchez, a mindbogglingly stupid piece of business. It kicked Pogba off (not that he'd need much coaxing I'd imagine) and pissed off Mourinho IMO.

HiMucker

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50112 on: May 27, 2022, 04:52:22 PM »
Or... and don't shoot me for suggesting this... can ETH not come in, spend no money and work with/improve the players at his disposal? Is spunking more money at the situation the answer when there are players in situ who are clearly very good players. The Man Utd model of throwing good money after bad is broken, how about biting the bullet and working with the players already assembled at insane cost to change the culture and fortunes of the club?

Utd have in effect a 38 game season next year, and for that they need a squad of 18-20 first team players, cup games are for the fringe lads number 16 onwards, with academy players getting their chance in the cups too, and then bounce off the Juve/Liverpool models, look for out of contract stars and value signings from the lower half of the PL, they need to put a stop to the chronic overspend on transfers and wages, whether they have it or not, its not a healthy model

I mentioned this previously, you'd expect a good chance to come in and get a tune out of a good few players he probably has no interest in keeping.

A lot of talk of De Jong but as it stands United don't have a naturally defensive midfielder who can protect the back 4, can't pretend to have much of an idea of how his Ajax team set up apart from they were similar to what Pep does. 

I'd expect a couple of lesser signings to come in this summer who can fit his system before been upgraded next summer should things go to plan; Klopp did the same in his first summer. I'm interested to see what he does with Maguire, he won't hang around if he's not first choice unlike some others who are happy to take the wages so wouldn't rule him out leaving this summer.

United likely to find out what's happening with Greenwood in next few weeks so imagine they won't make any moves for attacking players until they know his fate.
Again, who will want Maguire unless he takes a huge pay cut? And will the Glazers let an £80m player go for what will likely be peanuts?

Have a strong feeling Greenwood wonít be charged but even so will United want the bad press of him playing again for the club?
I can't imagine Greenwood ever kicking a ball again for united regardless of the outcome of his trial.

Armamike

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50113 on: May 27, 2022, 05:29:04 PM »
Hereís the thing. Within changing rooms, at the start of a season, most football teams suffer from a little delusion around what theyíre capable of doing i.e. what they might win if they all played to the max of their abilities every single week. But once things get going, within same changing rooms thereís usually a clear realism about where the bar really lies.

Why Ronaldo poses a problem for United is simple enough. The majority of that United squad have been en situ long enough to know the reality vs the expectation of their squad. And that same group will have known from early this season that the addition of Ronaldo wasnít going to extend the bar for their squad. Scoring goals hasnít been an issue for Man Utd for as long as anyone can remember.

So same squad members, before long, have to ponder why their club is paying him such an outrageous wage, why their club is so willing to give him exemptions from games and/or training, and why half their fans are only turning up to watch one player.

óó

If the highest paid players in a changing room are demonstrably better, these situations donít arise.

Man Utd were flailing in the water over this problem the previous few seasons with Pogba. Thor solution was to add more water, in Ronaldo.

It's an end sum game.  Does it really matter a jot who scores the goals if the total is more or less the same? With Ronaldo have Man U scored more goals this season than last and has that translated into more wins and points?  That's all that really matters, not whether Ronaldo gets 20 goals.  Before anyone has a melt down, that's not disputing Ronaldo's abilities as as player. 

From doubters to believers again.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Man Utd Thread:
« Reply #50114 on: May 27, 2022, 05:40:16 PM »
The elephant in the room is Ronaldo.  The team was limited but looked a much better unit then Ronaldo arrives and the whole thing goes tits up.  A coincidence?  He obviously still scores goals but at what cost was his signing to the team dynamic and spirit?
Total bollox. Yeah Ronaldos the problem. The ultimate professional surrounded by ar5eholes yet the best player off the last decade is the issue. Jesus wept.
.

Jesus wept indeed. Its a discussion board and we all can have views. Because my tuppence worth is different to your insight doesn't make it bollix.

But you havenít give any tuppence worth? Youíre talking about other players and blah blah but what is it that you know that has made Ronaldo cause the decline?  2nd last year to 6th? Iím not sure how Ronaldo affects Maguire Fernandez (international teammates) and the rest?

Iíd love to know and please donít quote Jamie

Eh, i have.  I'm giving a view as to what could have caused the issues, that's all. Of course i don't know if it was the reason, any more so than anyone else here, and apologies if i hurt anyone's feelings towards Ronaldo.  What's your view on why Man u have fallen back so badly this season?

They been shit for a few seasons now, havenít won a trophy since Jose was manager and players throwing toys out of the pram.

The failure lies squarely at the team and management.. if one particular player has caused it as youíre assuming Iíd like to know what it is? If you have no idea and just listening to others then thatís fine.

None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea