Started by GalwayBayBoy, January 21, 2007, 08:37:44 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 23, 2007, 08:54:15 PMQuote from: BallyhaiseMan on January 23, 2007, 07:23:46 PMwell in that case...The Green part of the tricolour is in the Ireland teams coloursTherefore the Tricolour should be accepted as the flag of the Ireland Rugby Team. Even for a Cavan man, that's pretty feeble logic.When I made my original remark about the NI flag reflecting the colours of the team it represents, I had in mind the Tricolour and the Irish rugby team. Imo, this is an inappropriate flag to fly at Ireland rugby matches since the team represents two countries (ROI and NI), whereas the Tricolour only represents one of those. Further, there is no orange in the team strip.I might add that while people waving the Tricolour at Ireland matches might irritate me mildly, I don't make too big a thing about it, since I am actually there for the rugby.By exactly the same token, those Ulster fans who dislike the NI flag are entirely free to wave a (Red and Yellow) Ulster flag, a red and white chequered flag, or an "Ulster Rugby" flag, all of which happens at Ravenhill.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on January 23, 2007, 07:23:46 PMwell in that case...The Green part of the tricolour is in the Ireland teams coloursTherefore the Tricolour should be accepted as the flag of the Ireland Rugby Team.
QuotePostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject:i posted this in reply to another thread - I think this one is more relevant.i was at the game on sunday. Not sitting where the main Ulster fans were but behind the two dugouts. We were close enough to the pitch to speak - not shout - and be heard. When Brennan returned to the dugout I asked him was he not ashamed to be Irish and he instantly replied that the guy had insulted his mother.As the man says there are three sides to every story - both persons and the truth. I do not condone anything that Trevor Brennan did but I am concerned with how we come out of this. To believe that he took this course of action because he heard someone slag off his bar? Is there not also a good chance he heard something and got the wrong guy?Whatever happened, this game and Ulster rugby in particular is/are being talked about for the wrong reasons.As another poster has suggested we have to look at ourselves and if anyone did, as Trevor has suggested, insult his mother then we should ensure that that person understands there is no place at either Ravenhill or as travelling support for that behaviour.
QuoteTotally agree that Goa is seriously twisted in his comparisons and there is simply no excuse for Brennan.However there is no doubt that there is a very small but vocal and loutish element creeping into the crowd(not the true support) at ulster matches.As a parent i encourage my kids to play for their school and to support Ulster but after London Irish and Llanelli my 11 yr old has said he does not want to go back.This is due entirely to drunken louts hurling abuse at the opposition,the ref and even the physio.In both instances i asked the guys to watch their language in front of kids but was told to f off and watch from somewhere else.I'd loved to have done that but small kids need to be at the front to see on the prom!Bottom line is that unless stewards do something my kids wont be back and they have more to offer ulster rugby than these idiots.
QuoteRed hand and a red mist as Brennan furore shows rugby's darker sideFingers will be pointed at Ulster supporters after the incident in ToulouseBrendan FanningWednesday January 24, 2007The GuardianEven before meat was added to the bones of Brennanbait, the goading of Toulouse's most celebrated publican, it was not hard to picture the scene. Why would Trevor Brennan have been a target for the Ulster fans? For a few reasons: he is a high-profile figure with a history of being blinded by red mist; and he is Irish. Better still, he is from the south of Ireland.It figured that the sectarian angle would feature early in the equation, even if it was quickly shrugged off by Brennan himself, who maintains that the abuse he suffered in Toulouse's Heineken Cup match against Ulster on Sunday was about his mother. The Ulster fans have earned something of a reputation for themselves.Article continuesOn the one hand this is positive. They are the most loyal in the land and were pouring through the gates of Ravenhill for Celtic League matches while their more celebrated brethren in Munster were cherry-picking Heineken Cup games. So while the 'Low Lies' - as the casual fans in Munster are known (they occasionally come and sing about the Fields of Athenry) - were being selective, the sons of Ulster were marching without question to support the team that represented their identity. Unlike Munster, Leinster or Connacht, for Ulster there is a political dimension.This was best illustrated by Davy Tweed. Ireland has four provinces feeding into the national team, with one of them doing so from outside the jurisdiction. It is unlikely they would ever refer to Ireland as being the "national team". And certainly not Big Davy. The Ulster second-row, now a DUP councillor in Ballymena, won three caps for Ireland in the mid-1990s, and his first, against France in 1995, was in Dublin. That meant standing to attention for Amhrán na bhFiann, the national anthem of the Republic.In fairness he did not move a muscle though, as binoculars were trained on him, we wondered what was going through his mind. The quote attributed to him on learning of his first cap was: "After 30 caps for my country [Ulster] I've been selected to play for Ireland!"Countless Ulster players before and after Tweed have had to endure the same ritual, though when the shoe is on the other foot in August, when Ireland play a warm-up game against Italy in Belfast, the only song getting an airing will be the apolitical, Ireland's Call, a dirge created to cover the gap in the welding job between north and south.The other side of the Ulster fans' loyal support has been the attraction of a few floating football voters who have abandoned the awfulness of the Irish League in favour of rugby. Typically they would be Loyalists, fans of Linfield or Glentoran, for whom the prospect of a few pints on a Friday night at a packed Ravenhill, watching a winning team, was a whole lot better than what they had following football.They brought some of the terrace culture with them and it has not been exclusively reserved for visitors. The vitriol that poured on the head coach, Mark McCall, when he was struggling in his early days in the job, was remarkable. The abuse of away teams also exceeds anything one would find in any of the other provincial venues. Last season, as Munster's centre Barry Murphy was being carried by stretcher from the pitch in Ravenhill in obvious agony, having dislocated his ankle and ruptured ligaments, a section of the crowd abused him. Murphy had done nothing to incite such an obnoxious reaction.Thankfully it has not strayed beyond that small element nor has it come across the fence and on to the pitch in any significant way. Sledging was a part of the game long before it was christened as such and over the years the odd comment has passed in heated moments in inter-provincial matches. The remarkable thing is that it never escalated. It is as if there has been a tacit recognition among all concerned that, without being too precious, rugby was a mechanism for people from different traditions to play with and against each other without losing the plot.The implications of the Brennan incident are most obvious for him and will cut short the last lap of a career that has thrived since he went to France. Ulster will have to take note as well. Some of their fans could do with observing some of the unwritten rules that have kept things sane for so long.
Quote from: stephenite on January 23, 2007, 11:40:25 PMQuote from: Evil Genius on January 23, 2007, 11:38:09 PMI wonder which of Brennan's relatives Barton insulted to warrant that? It was his father, I was there, I heard it. He called his father a Fenian C#%t
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 23, 2007, 11:38:09 PMI wonder which of Brennan's relatives Barton insulted to warrant that?
Quote from: venter on January 24, 2007, 10:21:32 AMThe 1999 world cup incident was no more than one of the aussies holding Brennans arms down while Kefou proceeded to box the head off him.
Quote from: Josey Whales on January 24, 2007, 10:55:50 AMI actually thought evil genius was genuine- i didn't agree with him but i thought he was genuine. Quite obviously i was wrong.- this is obviously some sort of a political trip that he gets his kicks out of. Wonder what he thinks of Fanning's article- which i think would be closer to the truth as regards Ulster rugby fans.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 24, 2007, 10:37:15 AMQuote from: stephenite on January 23, 2007, 11:40:25 PMQuote from: Evil Genius on January 23, 2007, 11:38:09 PMI wonder which of Brennan's relatives Barton insulted to warrant that? It was his father, I was there, I heard it. He called his father a Fenian C#%t If thats true, then Ulster rugby is now sectarian as well as racist, good god next they'll be telling us that rugger buggers in the six are sexist!!!!!! Seriously if he did call Brennans dad that then he deserves to be horse whipped!
Quote from: Bogball XV on January 23, 2007, 10:22:46 PMIn summation:Not all Ulster fans are idiots.Brennan was totally out of order.Bamford was probably a bit tanked up and did a bit too much slagging.
Quote from: Evil Genius on January 24, 2007, 12:58:44 PMQuote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on January 24, 2007, 10:37:15 AMQuote from: stephenite on January 23, 2007, 11:40:25 PMQuote from: Evil Genius on January 23, 2007, 11:38:09 PMI wonder which of Brennan's relatives Barton insulted to warrant that? It was his father, I was there, I heard it. He called his father a Fenian C#%t If thats true, then Ulster rugby is now sectarian as well as racist, good god next they'll be telling us that rugger buggers in the six are sexist!!!!!! Seriously if he did call Brennans dad that then he deserves to be horse whipped!GDU, I don't know whether you haven't understood anything that's been posted on this matter, or whether I'm seriously misunderstanding your post, but no matter.For the avoidance of any possible doubt in the matter, THERE WAS NO SECTARIAN OR POLITICAL ELEMENT WHATEVER IN THE ALTERCATION BETWEEN BRENNAN AND BAMFORD.In the immediate aftermath, there was entirely ill-founded and uninformed specualtion from certain quarters (invariably involving people not actually at the match) along the lines of - "Brennan's a Catholic, the Ulster fans are all Prods(!), therefore there must have been sectarian abuse to cause TB to react as he did" etcThis speculation was fuelled (if my understanding is correct), by TB's uncle phoning an RTE Radio station to allege that his brother (i.e. TB's dad) had told him that TB had been called a "Fenian Bastard". Now I don't know which of TB, his Dad, or his uncle was lying (all three, maybe?), but lying it certainly was.We know that, since in his Personal Statement issued the day after the match, TB specifically dispelled any notion of sectarianism. (He claimed instead, in what is becoming known as "the Zidane Defence", that his mother was insulted, a claim for which TB has produced no witness or evidence and which has been categorically denied by Bamford and those round him)I can't find the actual Statement just now, but here is a Report from the Irish Times:Brennan regrets altercation Johnny Watterson and Gerry Thornley RUGBY: Former Irish international and current Toulouse secondrow Trevor Brennan issued a statement last night saying that he regretted the altercation with an Ulster fan that occurred during his side's final Heineken European Cup pool game against Ulster on Sunday. Brennan, who stepped over the divide that separates the pitch from the team supporters and became involved in a physical dispute, now faces a lengthy ban if he is found to have assaulted the spectator. The incident has led to the European Rugby Cup (ERC) launching an official investigation into the controversy at Stade Ernest Wallon. Brennan said that some Ulster fans were being abusive and that beer was thrown at him, but that there was no sectarian element involved prior to the altercation. P.S. For the record, it is inconceivable that Bamford would have said anything sectarian, considering that at the match, he was sitting next to his best mate, a Catholic.P.P.S. Those at the scene accept that some beer (and water) was indeed thrown at Brennan, but are adamant that this was only after he had assaulted Bamford i.e. as he walked along the touchline back to his own team. It has been proven that the Press photograph widely published which shows beer being thrown can, from the position, angle and direction etc, only have been afterwards, as he returned in the other direction to the bench.