Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Did some other joggers not come upon the scene and the attacker, or was that inaccurate reporting by the media?
Quote from: J70 on January 14, 2022, 02:04:35 PM
Did some other joggers not come upon the scene and the attacker, or was that inaccurate reporting by the media?
Yeah that was mentioned in the news report, disturbed the attack. Now this brings into question was she known to the attacker also... awful, just awful
Quote from: J70 on January 14, 2022, 02:04:35 PM
Did some other joggers not come upon the scene and the attacker, or was that inaccurate reporting by the media?
That was printed but seems now to have been inaccurate. It was initially described in a way that suggested two people witnessed the attack.
For a woman to be beaten to death like that, there would have to be a strong possibility that the attacker was known to her imo. hopefully the guards get their act together and arrest the perpetrator soon.
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Two or 3 guards questioning the wrong guy does not affect the other evidence collection. They are collecting DNA, talking to everyone around, checking mobile phone data, looking at CCTV in the neighbouring towns etc. Unless they knew who it was, they could not speed this up. An attack out of the blue does not make it easy to identify suspects.
One advantage of DNA is to rule people out quickly and to identify someone if they do get another suspect.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 14, 2022, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Two or 3 guards questioning the wrong guy does not affect the other evidence collection. They are collecting DNA, talking to everyone around, checking mobile phone data, looking at CCTV in the neighbouring towns etc. Unless they knew who it was, they could not speed this up. An attack out of the blue does not make it easy to identify suspects.
No but its given the real killer 48 hours to get out of the area or even the country. Who knows where they are now.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2022, 03:19:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 14, 2022, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Two or 3 guards questioning the wrong guy does not affect the other evidence collection. They are collecting DNA, talking to everyone around, checking mobile phone data, looking at CCTV in the neighbouring towns etc. Unless they knew who it was, they could not speed this up. An attack out of the blue does not make it easy to identify suspects.
No but its given the real killer 48 hours to get out of the area or even the country. Who knows where they are now.
Offaly is in the middle of the coutry, probably you can drive anywhere on the island in 4 hours.
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Because the initial suspect was foreign, interrogation thru' translation probably took time, plus they had to check his
bona fides fully. They could also only go on the description from what witnesses there were. Can't blame them for nabbing this guy as he had previous and they were anxious to move as quickly as possible in case evidence was destroyed. I'm sure they had several strands going in parallel, just in case, as has now shown to be necessary. Have no reason to doubt the Guards' competence in this, they're not the thickos stupid RTE programs make them out to be.
I think the best way is to get the right person as opposed to getting someone quickly. If you can satisfy both those conditions all the better but it's not that simple
A shocking and outrageous crime perpetrated in broad daylight in a public place. Its just unbelievable and such a waste.
The gardai response has been brutal though. They lifted a fella, released his nationality and announced to the press that the killer and victim were not known to each other. Now it seems they don't know who the killer is! They've made a balls up in the critical first 1-2 days of the investigation.
A truly random murder is difficult to detect unless you apprehend the culprit at the spot.
Quote from: clarshack on January 14, 2022, 02:25:01 PM
For a woman to be beaten to death like that, there would have to be a strong possibility that the attacker was known to her imo. hopefully the guards get their act together and arrest the perpetrator soon.
She was strangled.
Reports of another "person of interest" having been identified.
Not overly familiar with the area, never made it farther than Tullamore Dew factory. I presume looking at Google maps, this would be a pedestrian walkway along the canal used by joggers, cyclists, dog walkers? Be strange for somebody not local to be in this area I thought?
She may have been known to the attacker. Truly random murders are rare enough.
The public reaction would remind you of what followed the murder of Sarah Everard thall I Sasana.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0114/1273770-ashling-murphy-vigils/
Quote from: Itchy on January 14, 2022, 04:04:01 PM
A shocking and outrageous crime perpetrated in broad daylight in a public place. Its just unbelievable and such a waste.
The gardai response has been brutal though. They lifted a fella, released his nationality and announced to the press that the killer and victim were not known to each other. Now it seems they don't know who the killer is! They've made a balls up in the critical first 1-2 days of the investigation.
No shock there.
Person of interest in hospital?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 14, 2022, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 14, 2022, 04:04:01 PM
A shocking and outrageous crime perpetrated in broad daylight in a public place. Its just unbelievable and such a waste.
The gardai response has been brutal though. They lifted a fella, released his nationality and announced to the press that the killer and victim were not known to each other. Now it seems they don't know who the killer is! They've made a balls up in the critical first 1-2 days of the investigation.
No shock there.
did the garda do that? I assume they used suspect when referring to the first person arrested and that the suspect and victom was not known to each other...
He was known to Gardai but that does not mean he was the usual suspect (as some suggested) as regards this type of crime or hassessment etc..
I dont see any reason to be critical of Gardai at this stage. In a town like tullamore the identity of the suspect was going to get out quick... his name was on social media pretty quick..
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22051199/
Quote from: mouview on January 14, 2022, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Because the initial suspect was foreign, interrogation thru' translation probably took time, plus they had to check his bona fides fully. They could also only go on the description from what witnesses there were. Can't blame them for nabbing this guy as he had previous and they were anxious to move as quickly as possible in case evidence was destroyed. I'm sure they had several strands going in parallel, just in case, as has now shown to be necessary. Have no reason to doubt the Guards' competence in this, they're not the thickos stupid RTE programs make them out to be.
There's every reason to doubt their competence. It's no surprise it took them only an hour to lift him and nearly 24 hours to rule him out. They seen he had previous and they liked him for the crime. It really shouldn't have been as hard to rule him out. A look at his mobile phone gps data would have been pretty conclusive unless he had passed through the crime scene between 3 and 4 o'clock.
50 gardaí working on the case per RTÉ.
As you would expect.
Aguisín
https://mobile.twitter.com/TeresaMannion/status/1481970068498046985
I was listening to the Joe Duffy show on the way home this afternoon- the litany of horror stories about the way women are treated. In the staffroom, which is predominantly female, every one of them spoke about the constant anxiety when out walking, day or night, and each gave examples from low grade intimidation which made them uncomfortable up to physical and sexual harassment and assault.
I suppose it speaks a lot more about my ignorance or naivety that, while obviously aware that it was 'out there', I genuinely had no idea the extent.
I think it's probably my upbringing- rural, don't hit girls, always respect women, and so on, that became a cornerstone of my value system. I lived in Tullamore a good few years. I can remember many nights walking home well drunk when I'd see a woman, or women, either walking ahead of me or towards me. I'd always make a point of crossing the road so as not to worry them, even though that may have looked or felt as bad to them.
I wonder now have I ever done enough in passing on values like that, values I took for granted. As it happened today, all of the girls in my 6th year class were either absent or gone to a match, so it was just 8 or 9 lads left. I tried to express these ideas, but it wasn't easy- it's a difficult conversation.
It just bugs me how a culture of fear for women is driven by a culture of poor behaviour by a significantly big enough cohort of men can exist and be on the increase.
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 06:45:35 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 14, 2022, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Because the initial suspect was foreign, interrogation thru' translation probably took time, plus they had to check his bona fides fully. They could also only go on the description from what witnesses there were. Can't blame them for nabbing this guy as he had previous and they were anxious to move as quickly as possible in case evidence was destroyed. I'm sure they had several strands going in parallel, just in case, as has now shown to be necessary. Have no reason to doubt the Guards' competence in this, they're not the thickos stupid RTE programs make them out to be.
There's every reason to doubt their competence. It's no surprise it took them only an hour to lift him and nearly 24 hours to rule him out. They seen he had previous and they liked him for the crime. It really shouldn't have been as hard to rule him out. A look at his mobile phone gps data would have been pretty conclusive unless he had passed through the crime scene between 3 and 4 o'clock.
The worst thing they did was pretty much leak that they had the man, he wasn't known to the victim, was foreign and had previous. It created the impression to everyone that case was solved and yet the real culprit is God knows where. Shambolic, no other word for it.
The "person of interest" is in Hospital, Gardai waiting to interview him.
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 06:45:35 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 14, 2022, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 14, 2022, 02:03:02 PM
Seems the guards pissed away a day questioning the wrong guy. Very poor work from them, rounding up the usual suspect instead of investigating properly.
You would love to see the perpetrator lifted as soon as possible.
Because the initial suspect was foreign, interrogation thru' translation probably took time, plus they had to check his bona fides fully. They could also only go on the description from what witnesses there were. Can't blame them for nabbing this guy as he had previous and they were anxious to move as quickly as possible in case evidence was destroyed. I'm sure they had several strands going in parallel, just in case, as has now shown to be necessary. Have no reason to doubt the Guards' competence in this, they're not the thickos stupid RTE programs make them out to be.
There's every reason to doubt their competence. It's no surprise it took them only an hour to lift him and nearly 24 hours to rule him out. They seen he had previous and they liked him for the crime. It really shouldn't have been as hard to rule him out. A look at his mobile phone gps data would have been pretty conclusive unless he had passed through the crime scene between 3 and 4 o'clock.
This is just silly. What if he was the perp and left his mobile at home, as happens with many premeditated crimes? Would that exonerate him? If he was able to furnish alibis for the time, it may have taken some time to track them down to validate. Maybe he had no alibis but was in a shop miles away from the crime and was picked up on its CCTV, or other CCTVs in different areas proved where he was at the time. Take time to trawl through all of these. Don't forget, the Gardai have to operate within the law at all time, otherwise a loophole may get a guilty person off scot-free in court.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2022, 09:11:40 PM
The "person of interest" is in Hospital, Gardai waiting to interview him.
In hospital in Dublin supposedly.
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-51572665.amp
A new report suggests that over half (61%) of women killed by men in the UK in 2018 were killed by a current or ex partner.
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
'This must stop' type comments relate to all attacks by men on women, not lone wolf attacks.
It's understandable that people want the perpetrator caught as soon as possible after this shocking murder and you would think that given the fact that it was in a public setting in broad daylight that there will be a very good chance of a conviction. As for people slating the Gardai, well the public do not have all of the available information so I would think it is sensible to wait for due process to run its course.
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
Most women are murdered by those close to them. It's a disturbing feature of the human condition. Larry Murphy style butchery is less common.
The man who was arrested has given an interview. Having seen his picture and a picture of the alleged second person it's understandable why a mistake was made. They both look quite similar and the first man arrested has some history with crime and also he was on the canal around the time of the incident. He was also picked out of a line up by someone. The big issue was that his name was made known. The thing is I don't think that's all in the Gardai either as in a town like Tullamore everyone knows everyone's business. As soon as his house was raided by the Guards and he was arrested the inevitable 2+2 happened. The Gardai could have held off with the info that they did and that was a failing on their part but I don't believe that operationally they did much wrong in terms of the arrest
Quote from: mouview on January 15, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
I have seen some truly shocking tweets. It was a horrendous incident but I have seen tweets where women have said "men please stop murdering us". Relatively speaking thankfully these incidents are low compared to other countries. More education may help and tougher prison sentences for domestic abusebbut unfortunately there are always going to be sickos out there.
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 15, 2022, 02:54:50 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 15, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
I have seen some truly shocking tweets. It was a horrendous incident but I have seen tweets where women have said "men please stop murdering us". Relatively speaking thankfully these incidents are low compared to other countries. More education may help and tougher prison sentences for domestic abusebbut unfortunately there are always going to be sickos out there.
Unfortunately the looney bin hashtag brigade come out and some try and make it about themselves
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 15, 2022, 02:54:50 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 15, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
I have seen some truly shocking tweets. It was a horrendous incident but I have seen tweets where women have said "men please stop murdering us". Relatively speaking thankfully these incidents are low compared to other countries. More education may help and tougher prison sentences for domestic abusebbut unfortunately there are always going to be sickos out there.
Unfortunately the looney bin hashtag brigade come out and some try and make it about themselves
Said it the other day. The whole thing about the young girl who has lost her life will be taken over by the social media bandwagon with hashtags about men and then counter hashtags. Social media is a cesspit at times. I feel incredibly sorry for that poor family. They will never get over this and their lives have been changed forever because of some sicko. No doubt they will be hounded by the press in the coming months too.
Quote from: JimStynes on January 15, 2022, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 15, 2022, 02:54:50 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 15, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
I have seen some truly shocking tweets. It was a horrendous incident but I have seen tweets where women have said "men please stop murdering us". Relatively speaking thankfully these incidents are low compared to other countries. More education may help and tougher prison sentences for domestic abusebbut unfortunately there are always going to be sickos out there.
Unfortunately the looney bin hashtag brigade come out and some try and make it about themselves
Said it the other day. The whole thing about the young girl who has lost her life will be taken over by the social media bandwagon with hashtags about men and then counter hashtags. Social media is a cesspit at times. I feel incredibly sorry for that poor family. They will never get over this and their lives have been changed forever because of some sicko. No doubt they will be hounded by the press in the coming months too.
I doubt very much her family will be hounded by the press. The Irish press are a lot more sympathetic and have more respect than their British counterparts.
Quote from: Tubberman on January 15, 2022, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 15, 2022, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 15, 2022, 02:54:50 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 15, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
I have seen some truly shocking tweets. It was a horrendous incident but I have seen tweets where women have said "men please stop murdering us". Relatively speaking thankfully these incidents are low compared to other countries. More education may help and tougher prison sentences for domestic abusebbut unfortunately there are always going to be sickos out there.
Unfortunately the looney bin hashtag brigade come out and some try and make it about themselves
Said it the other day. The whole thing about the young girl who has lost her life will be taken over by the social media bandwagon with hashtags about men and then counter hashtags. Social media is a cesspit at times. I feel incredibly sorry for that poor family. They will never get over this and their lives have been changed forever because of some sicko. No doubt they will be hounded by the press in the coming months too.
I doubt very much her family will be hounded by the press. The Irish press are a lot more sympathetic and have more respect than their British counterparts.
Think mickey harte would disagree. Think he said he was called over 60 times one weekend following the death of his daughter by someone from the Irish media.
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 15, 2022, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 15, 2022, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 15, 2022, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on January 15, 2022, 02:54:50 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 15, 2022, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 15, 2022, 11:02:12 AM
Terrible tragedy & I see lots of "this must stop" type comment. Has anyone come up with any ideas how to prevent what I see as unpreventable lone wolf/bad bastard attacks ? Thankfully they are uncommon here
Exactly. As repugnant is this and similar type crimes are, hoping that this is a watershed of sorts is unrealistic; it's like hoping all crime in the world ceases.
I have seen some truly shocking tweets. It was a horrendous incident but I have seen tweets where women have said "men please stop murdering us". Relatively speaking thankfully these incidents are low compared to other countries. More education may help and tougher prison sentences for domestic abusebbut unfortunately there are always going to be sickos out there.
Unfortunately the looney bin hashtag brigade come out and some try and make it about themselves
Said it the other day. The whole thing about the young girl who has lost her life will be taken over by the social media bandwagon with hashtags about men and then counter hashtags. Social media is a cesspit at times. I feel incredibly sorry for that poor family. They will never get over this and their lives have been changed forever because of some sicko. No doubt they will be hounded by the press in the coming months too.
I doubt very much her family will be hounded by the press. The Irish press are a lot more sympathetic and have more respect than their British counterparts.
Think mickey harte would disagree. Think he said he was called over 60 times one weekend following the death of his daughter by someone from the Irish media.
Was going to say the same. In his book he talked about a journalist calling to his house to give him emails ppl had sent about Michaela. He opened up a bit to her and they talked for a while. Their private chat ended up on the front page the next day.
I read in the Indo that the Gardai investigation rapidly wallowed into the mire of great Gardai c**k ups from times past. Not only picking up an innocent bystander, the nearest foreigner, but despite being faced with incontrovertible proof of innocence, persisted in treating his family home as a crime scene and attempted to evict all inhabitants, one person of ill health resisted and is now in prison awaiting trial on charges something akin to obstructing a Gardai investigation. How can a person be charged with obstructing a botched inept investigation?
As BCB outlined above, hard to blame the Gardai when what seems to be a reliable eye witness picked him out as the assailant, there was proof he was in the area and he was known to police. It looked like it had to be him and they just had to piece it together. The house was ransacked during the investigation, not after they had all the evidence that cleared him.
It seems awful what happened to the Romanian family. The sister must have had some reaction to get herself arrested. According to the original suspect, she has mental health problems, so all very unfortunate and presumably they are entitled to compensation.
At least they seem pretty sure they have the right guy now. Not sure how BCB knows what he looks like, but he says he looks very similar to the original suspect
Justice Minister and woman Helen McEntee asks in todays Sunday Indo just how is it that nothing has been done about violence against woman for so long.
Jez Helen, maybe we should ask the people who are in charge of law and order.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gardai-closing-in-on-ashling-murphys-killer-with-a-new-chief-suspect-41244432.html
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2022, 07:58:30 AM
Justice Minister and woman Helen McEntee asks in todays Sunday Indo just how is it that nothing has been done about violence against woman for so long.
Jez Helen, maybe we should ask the people who are in charge of law and order.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gardai-closing-in-on-ashling-murphys-killer-with-a-new-chief-suspect-41244432.html
She also asks why violence against women is tolerated.
I do not know anybody who tolerates it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 16, 2022, 08:16:45 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2022, 07:58:30 AM
Justice Minister and woman Helen McEntee asks in todays Sunday Indo just how is it that nothing has been done about violence against woman for so long.
Jez Helen, maybe we should ask the people who are in charge of law and order.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gardai-closing-in-on-ashling-murphys-killer-with-a-new-chief-suspect-41244432.html
She also asks why violence against women is tolerated.
I do not know anybody who tolerates it.
You're not wrong, but all I see on twitter is for men to speak out against all sorts of abuse and if we don't we're giving free rein to allow it to happen.
Quote from: Hound on January 16, 2022, 07:11:33 AM
At least they seem pretty sure they have the right guy now. Not sure how BCB knows what he looks like, but he says he looks very similar to the original suspect
I've seen a photo from CCTV which is allegedly the second man on the bicycle they are looking for. I don't know if it's him but if it is then you can understand how there was the mistake in identifying the Romanian.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 16, 2022, 08:57:22 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 16, 2022, 08:16:45 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 16, 2022, 07:58:30 AM
Justice Minister and woman Helen McEntee asks in todays Sunday Indo just how is it that nothing has been done about violence against woman for so long.
Jez Helen, maybe we should ask the people who are in charge of law and order.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gardai-closing-in-on-ashling-murphys-killer-with-a-new-chief-suspect-41244432.html
She also asks why violence against women is tolerated.
I do not know anybody who tolerates it.
You're not wrong, but all I see on twitter is for men to speak out against all sorts of abuse and if we don't we're giving free rein to allow it to happen.
I read a lot of this too. I have never known a man who is physically abusive towards a woman. If I did I would like to think I would try and do something but I have never faced that situation thankfully.
Yep a man cannot open his mouth at the moment to point out some of the gross generalisations being made against us as a gender. However I've been thinking too and there are things we as men can do...
1- not partake or ignore in the brain dead locker room talk about women, their bodies, their looks etc. This is what makes some men think of women as a piece of meat rather than a person.
2- same for the street side comments, wolf whistling loutish shite. Don't partake, don't tolerate it.
3- teach our sons to respect women.
A very many of us I'm sure do these things already but some clearly don't.
It takes a long time before someone becomes a murderer.
They go through various different stages , probably starting in early childhood when we learn to respect other people. The courts are full of people who flip given a trigger.
Some families are toxic. Some people are psychopaths. How to intervene in the process is the question.
The Sindo may as well have named the "person of interest".
Men and society objectify woman. They're seen and rated as objects of desire first, people second. Where you draw the line in what is acceptable varies from person to person, but that's what it comes down to.
Even the supposed code where a man will back off approaching a woman because he sees she has a boyfriend or husband is still treating her as something to be possessed. The "respect" of backing off is given to the other man, not to the woman herself.
As men we need to start teaching our sons how to respect and treat woman as people and to stop either engaging in or giving tacit approval to abusive behaviour, even if its only something as "harmless" as wolf-whistling or blowing the horn as you drive past.
Woman are absolutely right to be broad in their accusations and men need to just shut the f**k up and listen. We're all part of the abusive system that exists.
Start with Tabloids and their photos!
I think.making women feel uncomfortable and murdering women are 2 separate things. We can probably work on the latter. 244 murders since 96 is about 10 per year. Maybe 6 are in relationships.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 16, 2022, 11:53:09 AM
And when a woman backs off pursuing a relationship with a man upon seeing that he is already in a relationship, is it because she sees him as the possession of another? Is she giving all of the respect to the other woman and none to the man?
I do agree that we should strive for a society in which women are given a hell of a lot more respect. That doesn't stop some of the narrative on this being bullshit.
I'm probably cancelled now ::)
Oh you poor victim.
If and when men experience even a tiny fraction of the unwanted and unsolicited attention that the average woman (without a man) does day in, day out, whether it's in the pub, in the gym, walking down the road or out for a run, you might have a point.
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
I think.making women feel uncomfortable and murdering women are 2 separate things. We can probably work on the latter. 244 murders since 96 is about 10 per year. Maybe 6 are in relationships.
Obviously two very separate things in degree.
But definitely a lot of commonality in underlying reasons.
And we can work on both.
Plus not all attention is unwanted.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 16, 2022, 12:37:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2022, 12:26:00 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on January 16, 2022, 11:53:09 AM
And when a woman backs off pursuing a relationship with a man upon seeing that he is already in a relationship, is it because she sees him as the possession of another? Is she giving all of the respect to the other woman and none to the man?
I do agree that we should strive for a society in which women are given a hell of a lot more respect. That doesn't stop some of the narrative on this being bullshit.
I'm probably cancelled now ::)
Oh you poor victim.
If and when men experience even a tiny fraction of the unwanted and unsolicited attention that the average woman (without a man) does day in, day out, whether it's in the pub, in the gym, walking down the road or out for a run, you might have a point.
But nobody is speaking against any of that. We all accept that there is a problem with those things.
It's the shite people like you add in, such as your "backing off" theory that is complete and utter nonsense and should be allowed to be called out for such. Yet, it isn't. Why? Because I would only have a point if all those other things happened to men. Repeat the cycle.
If its such nonsense, why is it only women without men who are subject to attention, harassment and worse from other men? The only variable is the presence of the second man, yet that changes the whole situation.
If woman are just as culpable in these attitudes, make the case.
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PM
Plus not all attention is unwanted.
So these women are all full of shit?
It's all pretty fucked up. I think we are living in challenging times. We now have a generation that has grown up looking at porn from a young age, moved straight on to social media apps like Instagram and Snapchat, you have awful role models that young people look up to, garbage on tv like love island. All this combines into a misleading array of what is and isn't real life, what behaviour should be expected and is acceptable and how women and young girls should be treated. I know first hand from a girl I know who was able to rhyme off a load of lads I know who have sent unsolicited pictures, messages on social media, tried it on etc and these are men in their 30s. This might not directly relate to the horrendous attack on Aisling but there is still a conversation to be had with our young men.
I think.making women feel uncomfortable and murdering women are 2 separate things. We can probably work on the former.
244 murders since 1996 is about 10 per year. Maybe 6 are in relationships. We need the right stats but I dunno what else can be done.
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2022, 01:25:22 PM
It's all pretty fucked up. I think we are living in challenging times. We now have a generation that has grown up looking at porn from a young age, moved straight on to social media apps like Instagram and Snapchat, you have awful role models that young people look up to, garbage on tv like love island. All this combines into a misleading array of what is and isn't real life, what behaviour should be expected and is acceptable and how women and young girls should be treated. I know first hand from a girl I know who was able to rhyme off a load of lads I know who have sent unsolicited pictures, messages on social media, tried it on etc and these are men in their 30s. This might not directly relate to the horrendous attack on Aisling but there is still a conversation to be had with our young men.
Conversely I doubt there has ever been a safer time in the history of society to be female.
It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.
Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.
It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer. It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PM
Plus not all attention is unwanted.
So these women are all full of shit?
No, but you only have to open Instagram etc. to see that there are a lot of women who want attention.
Jesus christ, what is going on in here
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 06:44:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PM
Plus not all attention is unwanted.
So these women are all full of shit?
No, but you only have to open Instagram etc. to see that there are a lot of women who want attention.
There's people of both sexes who seek attention. But what has that got to do with men harassing and being violent towards women? What is the point you are making?
Whatever happened with the needle 'spiking' crisis pre-Christmas?
Quote from: greatpoint on January 16, 2022, 07:40:42 PM
Whatever happened with the needle 'spiking' crisis pre-Christmas?
Likely quietly dropped by the media when it was clear it was more nonsense.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 07:27:52 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 06:44:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PM
Plus not all attention is unwanted.
So these women are all full of shit?
No, but you only have to open Instagram etc. to see that there are a lot of women who want attention.
There's people of both sexes who seek attention. But what has that got to do with men harassing and being violent towards women? What is the point you are making?
I think the point is that you cannot pigeon-hole all men into one box, and you also cannot pigeon-hole all women into one box. By way of example, I believe that there are women who love attention and there are those that do not.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.
Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.
It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer. It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.
There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 16, 2022, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.
Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.
It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer. It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.
There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.
Totally agree there Tony. Was going to respond to that other post also but it's not worth the hassle.
Sam McConkey was on rte radio today suggesting men should get 12 lessons and a license before being let out in public! I'm afraid the usual suspects have now hijacked this tragedy for their own agendas and to look good on social media. Shameful stuff, but par for the course with certain groups, politicians, commentators etc.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 16, 2022, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2022, 01:25:22 PM
It's all pretty fucked up. I think we are living in challenging times. We now have a generation that has grown up looking at porn from a young age, moved straight on to social media apps like Instagram and Snapchat, you have awful role models that young people look up to, garbage on tv like love island. All this combines into a misleading array of what is and isn't real life, what behaviour should be expected and is acceptable and how women and young girls should be treated. I know first hand from a girl I know who was able to rhyme off a load of lads I know who have sent unsolicited pictures, messages on social media, tried it on etc and these are men in their 30s. This might not directly relate to the horrendous attack on Aisling but there is still a conversation to be had with our young men.
Conversely I doubt there has ever been a safer time in the history of society to be female.
Yeah women are having a great time at the minute!!
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1482817514241417218?s=21
I think we need to f**k up on this one it's struck a chord with a lot of women and they're demanding changes and they're right!!
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2022, 09:32:34 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 16, 2022, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2022, 01:25:22 PM
It's all pretty fucked up. I think we are living in challenging times. We now have a generation that has grown up looking at porn from a young age, moved straight on to social media apps like Instagram and Snapchat, you have awful role models that young people look up to, garbage on tv like love island. All this combines into a misleading array of what is and isn't real life, what behaviour should be expected and is acceptable and how women and young girls should be treated. I know first hand from a girl I know who was able to rhyme off a load of lads I know who have sent unsolicited pictures, messages on social media, tried it on etc and these are men in their 30s. This might not directly relate to the horrendous attack on Aisling but there is still a conversation to be had with our young men.
Conversely I doubt there has ever been a safer time in the history of society to be female.
Yeah women are having a great time at the minute!!
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1482817514241417218?s=21
I think we need to f**k up on this one it's struck a chord with a lot of women and they're demanding changes and they're right!!
That women from that account quoted is a pornstar/ OnlyFans account. Don't think she represents women at all. People like that are part of the problem.
Think this thread needs to be keep directly on the heartbreaking incident as its going off on a wide varying tangent here.
Quote from: Orior on January 16, 2022, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 07:27:52 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 06:44:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 16, 2022, 01:07:06 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PM
Plus not all attention is unwanted.
So these women are all full of shit?
No, but you only have to open Instagram etc. to see that there are a lot of women who want attention.
There's people of both sexes who seek attention. But what has that got to do with men harassing and being violent towards women? What is the point you are making?
I think the point is that you cannot pigeon-hole all men into one box, and you also cannot pigeon-hole all women into one box. By way of example, I believe that there are women who love attention and there are those that do not.
Yes. I agree, but how is that point relevant? How does certain women liking attention have anything to do with harassment and violence against women?
I'm deleting the Internet and going to live up a mountain.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 16, 2022, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.
Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.
It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer. It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.
There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.
You shouldn't be trying to minimise. Pointing out that we will never get to a point of zero violence, sexism, misogyny, is not a reason to not take action. Problems don't get solved with passivity and fatalism. Raising the issue forces people (mainly men) to reflect, it forces people and politicians to take action. One in five women have been raped in their lifetime. Forty-nine percent of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed. This is not unavoidable. There are many actions that need to be taken by governments and individuals.
Quote from: full moon on January 16, 2022, 09:43:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 16, 2022, 09:32:34 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 16, 2022, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 16, 2022, 01:25:22 PM
It's all pretty fucked up. I think we are living in challenging times. We now have a generation that has grown up looking at porn from a young age, moved straight on to social media apps like Instagram and Snapchat, you have awful role models that young people look up to, garbage on tv like love island. All this combines into a misleading array of what is and isn't real life, what behaviour should be expected and is acceptable and how women and young girls should be treated. I know first hand from a girl I know who was able to rhyme off a load of lads I know who have sent unsolicited pictures, messages on social media, tried it on etc and these are men in their 30s. This might not directly relate to the horrendous attack on Aisling but there is still a conversation to be had with our young men.
Conversely I doubt there has ever been a safer time in the history of society to be female.
Yeah women are having a great time at the minute!!
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1482817514241417218?s=21
I think we need to f**k up on this one it's struck a chord with a lot of women and they're demanding changes and they're right!!
That women from that account quoted is a pornstar/ OnlyFans account. Don't think she represents women at all. People like that are part of the problem.
I think the most pertinent fact here is that a man saw fit to stream a video of masturbation in an online vigil for a young woman who was murdered. I don't think we should distract from that by focusing on a bystander to that.
Right wing extremist filth showing their true hateful colours in Limerick
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40786386.html
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 16, 2022, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.
Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.
It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer. It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.
There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.
You shouldn't be trying to minimise. Pointing out that we will never get to a point of zero violence, sexism, misogyny, is not a reason to not take action. Problems don't get solved with passivity and fatalism. Raising the issue forces people (mainly men) to reflect, it forces people and politicians to take action. One in five women have been raped in their lifetime. Forty-nine percent of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed. This is not unavoidable. There are many actions that need to be taken by governments and individuals.
First up I'm not disagreeing with you. Any improvement in humanity should be encouraged.
But we are talking about half the population of the world. Or on more localised scales, half the population of country, county, city or town. And with no commonality among the half in terms of culture, tradition, education, upbringing or sexual persuasion. Their only clear commonality is that they have a penis i.e. are born of the one gender. And there is an oddity in that if a campaign was to focus on educating more specific group of loosely bound men - e.g all Catholic men, all Jewish men, all Irish men, all black men, all red haired men - telling them that they must do better, then that group face an uproar. But targeting "all men" is just too vague, too broad, too easy to ignore.
Quote from: thewobbler on January 16, 2022, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 16, 2022, 09:13:22 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on January 16, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
It's depressing, but not surprising to see some posters trying to minimise what women experience. Yes, there's never been a more safe time and things have improved dramatically, but we have a long way to go yet. It wasn't that long ago that marital rape was legal, divorce was illegal and women were forced to give up their careers when they married and legally referred to as the sub spouse. And that's before you consider the societal attitudes, magdalene laundries, mother and baby homes... And while we have moved some things forward; new issues are rearing their heads spurred by technology and the fraying of community and families support groups.
Some posters seem to be suggesting that the murder of women can't be avoided. This is just one of the extremes of what women face. There is a clear issue in how women are treated and society's attitude towards women. Most of the murderers are known to the victims and are often partners.
It's not enough to not be sexist, we have to be actively against sexism. Nobody is born a murderer. It shouldn't be the norm that women are terrified to walk home alone at night or go for a run in broad daylight. Educating young men, talking to our friends, brothers, sons etc., calling out bad behaviour would help so much. Clearly a lot of men can't deal with their emotions which leads to violence, alcoholism and other issues, women so often the victims.
There has been some shite talked on this subject over the past few days. Absolutely call out misogyny, sexism, violence against women, however that isn't going to get us to a point of zero violence towards women; including murder. I'm pretty sure all murderers know that all these things, including murder, are wrong so you or I telling them it's bad won't make a difference if they are suffering from mental health and/or substance abuse problems within a relationship. Unfortunately people will still be killing each other for the usual reasons of love, lust, power, money, revenge etc. in 1000 years regardless of how many vigils and hashtags we have.
You shouldn't be trying to minimise. Pointing out that we will never get to a point of zero violence, sexism, misogyny, is not a reason to not take action. Problems don't get solved with passivity and fatalism. Raising the issue forces people (mainly men) to reflect, it forces people and politicians to take action. One in five women have been raped in their lifetime. Forty-nine percent of women report being sexually assaulted or harassed. This is not unavoidable. There are many actions that need to be taken by governments and individuals.
First up I'm not disagreeing with you. Any improvement in humanity should be encouraged.
But we are talking about half the population of the world. Or on more localised scales, half the population of country, county, city or town. And with no commonality among the half in terms of culture, tradition, education, upbringing or sexual persuasion. Their only clear commonality is that they have a penis i.e. are born of the one gender. And there is an oddity in that if a campaign was to focus on educating more specific group of loosely bound men - e.g all Catholic men, all Jewish men, all Irish men, all black men, all red haired men - telling them that they must do better, then that group face an uproar. But targeting "all men" is just too vague, too broad, too easy to ignore.
Agree with that sentiment. Of the women in Ireland who were murdered in the last 3 years a disproportionately high amount were murdered by non-nationals. The stats were in the Irish times today. Yet no-one and I include myself in that would dare to suggest it's the non-nationals who are the problem or the danger here. So why has this descended into a men v women argument across social media?
The attacks and deaths were so varied and incomparable that describing it as a issue with patriarchal or men's role is society is simply just incorrect. For example one was the murdered suicide in lixnaw co Kerry where a 60 year old man killed his wife. Another was where a middle aged Mongolian women was stabbed outside the IFSC by a 15 year old boy. Another was the murder of a woman by her teenage son.
Collectively gathering up these deaths of women by men and ascribing their cause to a ingrained chauvinistic society is wrong in my opinion. Chauvinistic attitudes do exist, many women are challenged by sexist attitudes but I question the degree to which these attitudes contribute to premeditated murder.
https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1482730209312968706
Awful lot going on here and since it's a thread about the murder of Aisling Murphy I'm not going to wade in on the whole sexism/harassment/misogyny thing. Moderators can that talk be moved to a separate thread as there is a discussion to be had but this isn't the thread for it.
Back to the topic, I was in the Athletic grounds for the Ulster final yesterday and there was the lovely gesture of a minutes silence for Aisling before the game.
Yeah could we keep this one on topic for Ashling or other women who have suffered the same horrible untimely demise.
If someone wants to open another thread to discuss the wider issues that have flooded social media since the incident that might be more appropriate.
Fully agree with last two posts.
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ashling-murphy-murder-suspect-being-treated-for-injuries-he-could-not-satisfactorily-explain-1.4778075
L
The Garda investigation into the murder of Ashling Murphy last night remained focused heavily on a man being treated for a variety of wounds in a Dublin hospital.
His DNA was being cross-checked against a DNA profile taken from the crime scene and forensic evidence on a mountain bike found there and believed to have been used by the killer.
Garda divers were also searching the Grand Canal at Cappincur, Tullamore, Co Offaly, yesterday looking for evidence, specifically a weapon, following Ms Murphy's murder last Wednesday at about 4pm. A facility in Co Offaly used by the public was also searched for a weapon at the weekend.
The suspect for Ms Murphy's murder, who has a partner and children, has been in hospital since last Thursday night. He had sustained a mix of wounds, some of which are believed to be self-inflicted and serious. The suspect must also be mentally assessed before being interviewed and it was unclear last night when those checks would be completed.
Gardaí went to the Dublin hospital after being alerted by medical staff that a man was being treated for serious injuries he could not satisfactorily explain. When initial checks were made, links to Co Offaly quickly emerged. While the suspect has spoken to gardaí briefly, he has not been arrested.
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 17, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.
Quote from: JimStynes on January 17, 2022, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 17, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.
In this case social media was fed by the old traditional media releasing leaks from Gardai. But I do accept the polarisation on social media is awful to see.
Quote from: Itchy on January 17, 2022, 11:12:02 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 17, 2022, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 17, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.
In this case social media was fed by the old traditional media releasing leaks from Gardai. But I do accept the polarisation on social media is awful to see.
Totally agree
A serious feminist bandwagon is now developing on foot of this tragic incident with everyone from the IRFU, men only golf clubs, inequality in pay and job opportunities and Irish mammies being blamed for developing a culture which would appear to breed men who will murder women. And all these accusations being made without a single shred of supporting evidence. For instance where does Ireland sit in comparison with other countries as regards domestic violence statistics. How many Irish men have randomly murdered women? Aisling Murphys murder was a heinous action it's very wrong to use it as a means to but those who are using it pursue their own agenda need to be called out. If it turns out to be a foreign national will that then be open house for the racist agenda to take centre stage
Quote from: JimStynes on January 17, 2022, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 17, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.
#hashtag
Social media is an echo chamber but polarisation comes from somewhere else.
You can either read the social media about it or not, I chose not too, there were some other #fights on facebook which I just deleted them rather than have it popping up all the time.
I've two daughters, one similar age, reading the story is heartbreaking enough, without it being a 24/7 thing, my wife is stressed enough that one works in a bar in Belfast and lives in Belfast with friends from college, having this reminding that she is walking home from work isn't good for our health!
It's an appalling tragedy and dreadful for the girl's family and friends.
Agree with a lot of posts here. People, especially on social media can't wait to use these events to further their own agenda.
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Simon McConkey is in the radio saying men should take lessons/get a licence to go out socially.
Im beginning to think we are living in a simulation and someone somewhere is pushing buttons.
Quote from: full moon on January 16, 2022, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: greatpoint on January 16, 2022, 07:40:42 PM
Whatever happened with the needle 'spiking' crisis pre-Christmas?
Likely quietly dropped by the media when it was clear it was more nonsense.
As in the claims weren't genuine? It's very strange to see such a furore created and then seemingly completely dropped with no explanation.
I don't know about the needle spikings but a lot of the claimed cases of drinks spiking are simply the person getting blotto on alcohol.
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22051468/
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
She is an arsehole
I don't know what to make of her tbh. Is she using violence against women to make a name for herself or using her name to raise the violence against women angle.
I know that is glass half full vs glass half empty but one thing that stood out for me was when Naomi long got significant abuse by one individual on Twitter regarding her weight.(it was really vitriolic) she runs an article on it however if she had researched, or maybe she did, maybe she would have seen that the same boy did the same to a male sdlp councillor. He was a piece of shit and it was nothing to do with misogyny.
I worry sometimes that the mens attitude to women and violence etc , which need a lot of attention might I add, like this may fall into the cry wolf territory if things which aren't in this category are labelled as it.
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
Quote from: JimStynes on January 17, 2022, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 17, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.
Including sadly a lot of "outpourings" of this case
#shewasgoingforarun
Pay your respects privately or collectively but put the fecking phone away otherwise it reeks of crass "like and share" opportunism. Oh look I'm part of this weeks movement, and we're going viral...
Quote from: tiempo on January 18, 2022, 12:11:32 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 17, 2022, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 17, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 17, 2022, 10:03:31 AM
There is disturbing evidence of polarisation ie men vs women . I think some values need to be reassessed. Women seem to be looking for that. It will take time.
Men v women
Conservatives v liberals
Woke v traditionalists
It's getting worse. Most people fall in the middle of issues but they are being drowned out by extremists on both sides screaming at each other. I blame social media.
That's a good way of putting it! Social media is a lot to blame. Everything is a hashtag.
Including sadly a lot of "outpourings" of this case
#shewasgoingforarun
Pay your respects privately or collectively but put the fecking phone away otherwise it reeks of crass "like and share" opportunism. Oh look I'm part of this weeks movement, and we're going viral...
Like
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ashling-murphy-s-sister-pays-tribute-to-young-teacher-ahead-of-funeral-today-1.4779394
"Our family kindly asks that any musicians attending please bring their instrument and play music at lower town cemetery after Mass should you wish."
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
It would probably mean a few changes
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/older-women-on-gender-based-violence-it-s-too-much-to-expect-a-sudden-watershed-moment-1.4778937
She would like to see confidence-building "and teaching women to be aware of our surroundings" in schools, while boys need to be taught to respect women and to intervene.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/an-attack-on-all-women-north-s-politicians-hold-vigil-for-ashling-murphy-1.4778873
DUP First Minister Paul Givan, who was joined by DUP party leader Jeffrey Donaldson at the vigil, said people in Northern Ireland and the Republic had come together as one community to share in grief over the murder of Ms Murphy.
"All of us have come together in the past number of days to show our revulsion for what has happened to Ashling Murphy and to stand in support of Ashling and her family," he said.
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
She isnt the problem. Just an absolute dose.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Same sex school a big issue, wouldnt have any of my wains at one
Here are some ideas
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/una-mullally-we-either-want-to-use-every-tool-we-have-to-address-violence-against-women-or-we-don-t-1.4777975
There have been persistent calls for an updated Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland (SAVI) report following its initial publication in 2002.
Policy decisions must be informed by proper research and data. Various politicians have split hairs over this. Leo Varadkar has said that funding a new SAVI report was dropped in favour of "providing free legal aid for people who are victims of domestic violence". This is nonsensical. How on earth did addressing violence against women come down to a pick-and-choose approach? Who decided that the women of Ireland could either have legal aid or research?
Four departments
This false framing was repeated every time a woman politician – Ruth Coppinger, Róisín Shortall, Mary Lou McDonald, Catherine Connolly among others – called for an updated SAVI report.
The cost was €1 million, something so astronomical that when Charlie Flanagan was minister for justice he said that the funding would have to be spread across four departments.
A recent Garda investigation found that in 2019 and 2020 between 3,000 and 4,000 "domestic violence" 999 calls were cancelled by the Garda. "Cancelled" calls can range from 999 calls receiving no response at all, to gardaí calling to the home where the attack was taking place and subsequently botching the recording process of the incident and classifying the call as "cancelled".
In some cases gardaí did not undertake correct procedures when they did respond to calls, such as not following up in subsequent days. This is a scandal.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/funding-policies-and-education-suggestions-for-change-after-ashling-murphy-killing-1.4777772
Dr Clíona Saidlear, executive director of the Rape Crisis Network Ireland, says Ireland was "below par" when it came to the funding and provision of sexual violence supports and services.
Properly addressing gender-based violence would be a "massive job of social engineering and societal change," requiring a well-resourced network of frontline services, Dr Saidlear says.
Introduce sexual harassment policy in schools
Dr Saidlear also believes the Department of Education should draw up a national policy to address sexual harassment in secondary schools, with the aim of introducing a "zero tolerance" culture.
This plan, similar to recent efforts across third-level education, would set out a standard approach for how complaints of sexual harassment were handled.
At present girls were effectively taught to "tolerate sexual violence and harassment, and we are teaching boys that they can get away with it," she says.
Fully implement new gender-based violence strategy
Orla O'Connor, director of the National Women's Council of Ireland, says there has to be "very clear responsibilities" for the implementation of the Government's third national strategy on sexual and gender-based violence, due to be released in coming weeks.
"That means one Government department and one Minister. We would like to see it assigned to the Department of Justice with a very clear remit, because at the moment there is no clear line of responsibility, it's split in too many different places and things fall through the cracks," she says.
Set up task force to address male violence
The Government should set up a cross-departmental "high level task force" to lead reforms to tackle male violence against women, feminist campaigner Ailbhe Smyth believes.
"We need to ensure there is adequate funding and for different departments that need to be involved to coordinate. This is a social issue, a health issue and an education issue," she says.
Rather than a dedicated new department, a special unit within the Department of the Taoiseach to drive change "might fit the bill," she says.
"If nothing else this year, we should fulfil our commitment to the Istanbul convention," which set standards to combat domestic violence, Ms Smyth says.
Include consent in the curriculum
The current "void" of proper education around sex and consent in secondary school needs to be addressed, with the Relationships and Sexuality Education (RSE) curriculum brought into "the 21st century", according to Elaine Healy Byrnes, an NUI Galway academic who has written a PhD on consent.
Healy Byrnes says long-awaited RSE reform should include requirements to teach pupils about consent and respect in relationships, with proper support for teachers to do so.
More mixed secondary schools
The majority of secondary schools should be mixed, rather than single-sex, according to Colm O'Connor, principal of Cork Educate Together secondary school.
"I've worked in single-sex and co-ed schools for a decade each, and there is no comparison in terms of gender relations," Mr O'Connor says. "In co-ed schools empathy is easier to build as male, female and trans students learn about each other's lives and challenges together," he says.
Run a public information campaign tackling misogyny
A sustained public information campaign targeting sexism and misogyny should be rolled out, similar to successful advertising campaigns aimed at drink driving, Labour TD Ivana Bacik says.
Were there any witnesses to the attack?
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 18, 2022, 09:42:56 AM
Were there any witnesses to the attack?
Yes, two women who were walking on opposite side of the canal.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Same sex school a big issue, wouldnt have any of my wains at one
Jeff Anderson went to a mixed school, along with two other classmates being found guilty of various criminal acts towards women..
https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/ (https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/)
A girl a few years younger in the same school who knew them and is now a journalist wrote a blog about the prevailing culture within the school.
Can't seem to find it, but an interesting read on this very subject, I'll keep looking for it.
Gendered microaggressions towards the "only" women coaches in high-performance sport
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21640629.2021.2021031
Quote from: balladmaker on January 18, 2022, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 18, 2022, 09:42:56 AM
Were there any witnesses to the attack?
Yes, two women who were walking on opposite side of the canal.
Not sure is that true. I understood they seen the 1st suspect standing over the body and assumed he was attacking while he was actually trying to help
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Same sex school a big issue, wouldnt have any of my wains at one
Jeff Anderson went to a mixed school, along with two other classmates being found guilty of various criminal acts towards women..
https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/ (https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/)
A girl a few years younger in the same school who knew them and is now a journalist wrote a blog about the prevailing culture within the school.
Can't seem to find it, but an interesting read on this very subject, I'll keep looking for it.
Gemma McSherry?
https://gemmamcsherry.medium.com/lets-talk-about-regent-rugby-and-rape-e1e1afe48a14 (https://gemmamcsherry.medium.com/lets-talk-about-regent-rugby-and-rape-e1e1afe48a14)
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Same sex school a big issue, wouldnt have any of my wains at one
Jeff Anderson went to a mixed school, along with two other classmates being found guilty of various criminal acts towards women..
https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/ (https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/)
A girl a few years younger in the same school who knew them and is now a journalist wrote a blog about the prevailing culture within the school.
Can't seem to find it, but an interesting read on this very subject, I'll keep looking for it.
Animals. Still think all boy schools are worse that mixed-from experience
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 10:38:55 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Same sex school a big issue, wouldnt have any of my wains at one
Jeff Anderson went to a mixed school, along with two other classmates being found guilty of various criminal acts towards women..
https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/ (https://tedteamsite.wordpress.com/2020/07/28/james-mcquillan-of-newtownards-jeff-anderson-of-kircubbin-and-dylan-rogers-of-ballywalter-co-down/)
A girl a few years younger in the same school who knew them and is now a journalist wrote a blog about the prevailing culture within the school.
Can't seem to find it, but an interesting read on this very subject, I'll keep looking for it.
Gemma McSherry?
https://gemmamcsherry.medium.com/lets-talk-about-regent-rugby-and-rape-e1e1afe48a14 (https://gemmamcsherry.medium.com/lets-talk-about-regent-rugby-and-rape-e1e1afe48a14)
Yip, the very one. Thanks.
I'm not getting at the rugby culture directly as that type of culture can happen in any school where young men are feted as something special and blind eyes are turned to their other misdeeds and poor behaviour towards others, girls and also boys deemed to be lesser mortals..
If you are feted as top dog in any school sport it is likely to instil confidence which can easily become cockiness, but it needs something extra for that to spill over into sexual assault. I wouldn't lay that at the door of a school or a sport.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:00:31 AM
If you are feted as top dog in any school sport it is likely to instil confidence which can easily become cockiness, but it needs something extra for that to spill over into sexual assault. I wouldn't lay that at the door of a school or a sport.
I get that, but they all have a part to play in defining a culture of what is acceptable and what isn't but IMO home life is the biggest influence on these types of behaviours..
We've all been in changing rooms or nights out where certain things are laughed and joked about in relation to some sexual conquest or other when we really need to grow a set ourselves and call out the bullshit around us rather than play along with it, normalising it.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 11:12:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:00:31 AM
If you are feted as top dog in any school sport it is likely to instil confidence which can easily become cockiness, but it needs something extra for that to spill over into sexual assault. I wouldn't lay that at the door of a school or a sport.
I get that, but they all have a part to play in defining a culture of what is acceptable and what isn't but IMO home life is the biggest influence on these types of behaviours..
We've all been in changing rooms or nights out where certain things are laughed and joked about in relation to some sexual conquest or other when we really need to grow a set ourselves and call out the bullshit around us rather than play along with it, normalising it.
Would go along with all of that. If parents, schools, teams and mates make it clear what is acceptable then you'd hope it gets the message home.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:28:20 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 11:12:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:00:31 AM
If you are feted as top dog in any school sport it is likely to instil confidence which can easily become cockiness, but it needs something extra for that to spill over into sexual assault. I wouldn't lay that at the door of a school or a sport.
I get that, but they all have a part to play in defining a culture of what is acceptable and what isn't but IMO home life is the biggest influence on these types of behaviours..
We've all been in changing rooms or nights out where certain things are laughed and joked about in relation to some sexual conquest or other when we really need to grow a set ourselves and call out the bullshit around us rather than play along with it, normalising it.
Would go along with all of that. If parents, schools, teams and mates make it clear what is acceptable then you'd hope it gets the message home.
Any of us who have been in that changing room or on a team night out have either passively or actively been involved in inappropriate behaviour at some stage and are all 'guilty' to a point. I had this conversation last night with my partner and basically confirmed this to her. It wasn't called out enough then though if it went too far it was.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:28:20 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 11:12:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:00:31 AM
If you are feted as top dog in any school sport it is likely to instil confidence which can easily become cockiness, but it needs something extra for that to spill over into sexual assault. I wouldn't lay that at the door of a school or a sport.
I get that, but they all have a part to play in defining a culture of what is acceptable and what isn't but IMO home life is the biggest influence on these types of behaviours..
We've all been in changing rooms or nights out where certain things are laughed and joked about in relation to some sexual conquest or other when we really need to grow a set ourselves and call out the bullshit around us rather than play along with it, normalising it.
Would go along with all of that. If parents, schools, teams and mates make it clear what is acceptable then you'd hope it gets the message home.
Any of us who have been in that changing room or on a team night out have either passively or actively been involved in inappropriate behaviour at some stage and are all 'guilty' to a point. I had this conversation last night with my partner and basically confirmed this to her. It wasn't called out enough then though if it went too far it was.
Yep, most of us have played some part, whether actively or by staying quiet.
Those of us who are old enough would also be the same when it came to casual homophobia and other forms of bigotry.
Hopefully the upcoming generations are more enlightened and aware and we who were part of this culture in the past are hopefully teaching our kids that its not acceptable.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 08:20:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: Orior on January 17, 2022, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 17, 2022, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 17, 2022, 03:45:21 PM
Has Allison Morris weighed in yet? She reckons the weather is misogynistic
Can't stand her. Hate the world.
Good rest that poor girl and her family.
Hey, easy on. She was physically abused by her ex-husband.
I think she is doing a grand job standing up for catholics in the protestant Belfast Telegraph.
Miserable dose of a woman, not a professional at all, we all have been abused in some way sometime in our lives but her hatred of men is blinding her to everything else
If Allison Morris is the issue then we are really up shít creek. I've seen her article and it's based on indisputable facts around abuse levelled towards women.
I think we should deal with that before worrying about the miniscule amounts of cry wolf events in comparison to the real events.
And she's right that education on this should be addressed at school as it can't be left to the parents in a lot of instances...
Think about the top shaggers and have a look at the likes of Jeff Anderson and then come back to what Allison Morris is talking about.
Violence against women is a structural problem that needs a coherent Govt response. Nothing to do with Allison Morris.
Surely a lot of this comes back to community policing. I cannot remember the last time I saw a guard on the street walking in my local town or the nearby town of 10k where we all go to socialise etc. A few guards spinning around in cars is all you ever see.
I'm no expert but I'd say misogyny is a learned trait from home, on the lesser, menial end of the scale, the girls were required to do all the house work when the boys were lying up on their arses to the higher end of the scale where the mother took a bit of a thump from the father and some more and evidently this would have a lasting effect on all children in normalising this and taking it into their own adult relationships.
Same sex school a big issue, wouldnt have any of my wains at one
Was thinking the very same. Though likely that will be the case in secondary school for my lot.
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
Ah, he's a foreigner, so everything is all right in the world then.
Tell your daughter/wife to go on out for that walk or run and not to worry herself about taking all those precautions that your son/yourself doesn't even have to consider.
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2022, 12:26:14 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:28:20 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 11:12:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 11:00:31 AM
If you are feted as top dog in any school sport it is likely to instil confidence which can easily become cockiness, but it needs something extra for that to spill over into sexual assault. I wouldn't lay that at the door of a school or a sport.
I get that, but they all have a part to play in defining a culture of what is acceptable and what isn't but IMO home life is the biggest influence on these types of behaviours..
We've all been in changing rooms or nights out where certain things are laughed and joked about in relation to some sexual conquest or other when we really need to grow a set ourselves and call out the bullshit around us rather than play along with it, normalising it.
Would go along with all of that. If parents, schools, teams and mates make it clear what is acceptable then you'd hope it gets the message home.
Any of us who have been in that changing room or on a team night out have either passively or actively been involved in inappropriate behaviour at some stage and are all 'guilty' to a point. I had this conversation last night with my partner and basically confirmed this to her. It wasn't called out enough then though if it went too far it was.
Yep, most of us have played some part, whether actively or by staying quiet.
Those of us who are old enough would also be the same when it came to casual homophobia and other forms of bigotry.
Hopefully the upcoming generations are more enlightened and aware and we who were part of this culture in the past are hopefully teaching our kids that its not acceptable.
I have seen that break lads, who ended up walking away, good players gone at 16
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
I read about that on Twitter. Hopefully they can trace rhe IP address. Social media is a complete cesspit! Especially Twitter. I did notice one of the main women giving off on Twitter was a woman who had an only fans account. Is she not part of the overall problem as well?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
You are referencing some other incident at the, not sure what your point is or what that is to do with me, just more hysterical rubbish.
Violence towards women is not endemic, statistically this is one of the safest countries in the world and history to be a woman or a man. And then there is much more violence against men.
In fairness a Crossmaglen man like yourself would know all about violence and crime, given ye boys dish enough of it out. Catch yourself on.
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:46:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
You are referencing some other incident at the, not sure what your point is or what that is to do with me, just more hysterical rubbish.
Violence towards women is not endemic, statistically this is one of the safest countries in the world and history to be a woman or a man. And then there is much more violence against men.
In fairness a Crossmaglen man like yourself would know all about violence and crime, given ye boys dish enough of it out. Catch yourself on.
And there you go.....I'll tell you what you keep believing there's no problem.
As for the pathetic dig about who I am and where I'm from, that's all it is, pathetic. Easy to be a big man when no one knows you're name. At least I've no problem about who I am and where I'm from. Pathetic to play the man, cowardly in fact. Are you a coward? Do you beat up women too and that's why you want to make out there's no problem?
We are in full swing now!!
Went to an all boys school, so I'm not sure how it would affect how I spoke to girls or respected them less, my daughters went to a mixed school and I can't see any difference other than they are more concerned about how they look because there are boys there, pressures they didn't need.
Kids nowadays are so different to when I grew up, they find it very difficult to interact with ones outside of their friends group, I seen this in y previous job when taking a young lad out to a new employer, my god it was difficult to get him to lift his head, whereas is class the shit wouldnt shut up!
I remember one day a bunch of girls from local girls secondary school appeared at the window of our woodworking class, lined up and lifted their skirts! Hallions! Needless to say we didnt follow that up ourselves
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2022, 12:37:30 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
Ah, he's a foreigner, so everything is all right in the world then.
Tell your daughter/wife to go on out for that walk or run and not to worry herself about taking all those precautions that your son/yourself doesn't even have to consider.
Let's just pretend that in Ireland we "talk to our boys" as the virtue signallers suggest and this eliminates all murders of females, sexual assaults, domestic violence, misogyny, wolf whistling, cat calling etc. by Irish men.
Unless practically every other country in the world does the same and has the some results, while there are open borders, there will still be a risk to women.
The same twits who are shouting "all men" are part of the problem are the same ones who shout "not all muslims" when there is a terror attack.
Full moon sounds like a real catch, imagine this weapon taking your daughter or sister out!
Quote from: Dag Dog on January 18, 2022, 01:02:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2022, 12:37:30 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
Ah, he's a foreigner, so everything is all right in the world then.
Tell your daughter/wife to go on out for that walk or run and not to worry herself about taking all those precautions that your son/yourself doesn't even have to consider.
Let's just pretend that in Ireland we "talk to our boys" as the virtue signallers suggest and this eliminates all murders of females, sexual assaults, domestic violence, misogyny, wolf whistling, cat calling etc. by Irish men.
Unless practically every other country in the world does the same and has the some results, while there are open borders, there will still be a risk to women.
The same twits who are shouting "all men" are part of the problem are the same ones who shout "not all muslims" when there is a terror attack.
"Virtue signallers"?
Dear god.
So what are you saying? We should just let the lads at it, because if its not them, some medieval Muslim-type is going to victimize our women anyway?
Quote from: JimStynes on January 18, 2022, 12:40:17 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
I read about that on Twitter. Hopefully they can trace rhe IP address. Social media is a complete cesspit! Especially Twitter. I did notice one of the main women giving off on Twitter was a woman who had an only fans account. Is she not part of the overall problem as well?
Not sure what only fans is as it's blocked by my company internet browsing settings but I believe it's safe to assume it's not a betting site and seems to be a site for sharing videos and pictures behind a paywall, probably NSFW correct?
I'm not sure of your logic but if this girl decides to post videos or pictures of herself and get a few bob from whoever, then she's enticing violence towards women or she herself is objectifying women as sex objects so can't complain if we men sexually objectify them, is that it?
I know you're not suggesting that a girl "is asking for it" if they wear short skirts as you always come across as having more wit about you.
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
Full moon sounds like a real catch, imagine this weapon taking your daughter or sister out!
Aye, ye lads would be more interested taking an ATM out than a woman!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2022, 01:00:20 PM
We are in full swing now!!
Went to an all boys school, so I'm not sure how it would affect how I spoke to girls or respected them less, my daughters went to a mixed school and I can't see any difference other than they are more concerned about how they look because there are boys there, pressures they didn't need.
Kids nowadays are so different to when I grew up, they find it very difficult to interact with ones outside of their friends group, I seen this in y previous job when taking a young lad out to a new employer, my god it was difficult to get him to lift his head, whereas is class the shit wouldnt shut up!
I remember one day a bunch of girls from local girls secondary school appeared at the window of our woodworking class, lined up and lifted their skirts! Hallions! Needless to say we didnt follow that up ourselves
Exact same at all girl schools-teenage girls can be a toxic and so nasty , the subtle bullying that insidiously wrecks people, a lot of it is around how each other look and behave-much worse than boys in many cases
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 01:20:05 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 18, 2022, 12:40:17 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
I read about that on Twitter. Hopefully they can trace rhe IP address. Social media is a complete cesspit! Especially Twitter. I did notice one of the main women giving off on Twitter was a woman who had an only fans account. Is she not part of the overall problem as well?
Not sure what only fans is as it's blocked by my company internet browsing settings but I believe it's safe to assume it's not a betting site and seems to be a site for sharing videos and pictures behind a paywall, probably NSFW correct?
I'm not sure of your logic but if this girl decides to post videos or pictures of herself and get a few bob from whoever, then she's enticing violence towards women or she herself is objectifying women as sex objects so can't complain if we men sexually objectify them, is that it?
I know you're not suggesting that a girl "is asking for it" if they wear short skirts as you always come across as having more wit about you.
Onlyfans is basically porn therefore it is part of the problem. But maybe its all about empowering strong, independent women with regards to their bodies.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2022, 01:00:20 PM
We are in full swing now!!
Went to an all boys school, so I'm not sure how it would affect how I spoke to girls or respected them less, my daughters went to a mixed school and I can't see any difference other than they are more concerned about how they look because there are boys there, pressures they didn't need.
Kids nowadays are so different to when I grew up, they find it very difficult to interact with ones outside of their friends group, I seen this in y previous job when taking a young lad out to a new employer, my god it was difficult to get him to lift his head, whereas is class the shit wouldnt shut up!
I remember one day a bunch of girls from local girls secondary school appeared at the window of our woodworking class, lined up and lifted their skirts! Hallions! Needless to say we didnt follow that up ourselves
Exact same at all girl schools-teenage girls can be a toxic and so nasty , the subtle bullying that insidiously wrecks people, a lot of it is around how each other look and behave-much worse than boys in many cases
Bullies are starting to be called out more now, but the level of bullying because of social media is far greater than the standard that would have been in my day. Yes in my experience of having daughters I've listened to their stories of 'casual' bullying at school and its mainly the girls!
My girls have been fine, due to sports and the circles they ran around with.
I'd one lad that went to my primary and secondary school and he was bullied from day one, the amount of times I'd stepped in to help was weekly, could have been daily.
I'm just not sold on the single sex schools being a big reason for this tbh, I've 4 other brothers and plenty cousins all going to the same school with no issues around being sex creeps. America/UK wouldnt have as many same sex schools percentage wise, so what's their reasons
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 18, 2022, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 18, 2022, 01:20:05 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 18, 2022, 12:40:17 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 12:29:05 PM
Main suspect isn't even Irish it's a Roma gypsy from Slovakia, so what this has to do with Catholic schools, dressing room banter, catcalling, men's golf clubs, WhatsApp groups, education or even Irish men writ large is beyond me.
Just more feminist man hating rubbish from the usual suspects. I doubt said suspect even went to school and isn't even here that long.
It's a terrible tragedy but just been hijacked by the usual interest groups, RTE and other attention seekers like Keith Walsh. They couldn't even give the family and loved ones a couple days privacy which they requested.
You do realise that the murder is a very very small part of what the problem is? It's is the worst case scenario but male violence and inappropriate behaviour towards women is widespread and endemic. This culture needs to change. The fact that you have men trying to hijack vigils for a murdered woman by exposing them self and trying to masturbate sums the issue up. If you can't see that then you are part of the problem
I read about that on Twitter. Hopefully they can trace rhe IP address. Social media is a complete cesspit! Especially Twitter. I did notice one of the main women giving off on Twitter was a woman who had an only fans account. Is she not part of the overall problem as well?
Not sure what only fans is as it's blocked by my company internet browsing settings but I believe it's safe to assume it's not a betting site and seems to be a site for sharing videos and pictures behind a paywall, probably NSFW correct?
I'm not sure of your logic but if this girl decides to post videos or pictures of herself and get a few bob from whoever, then she's enticing violence towards women or she herself is objectifying women as sex objects so can't complain if we men sexually objectify them, is that it?
I know you're not suggesting that a girl "is asking for it" if they wear short skirts as you always come across as having more wit about you.
Onlyfans is basically porn therefore it is part of the problem. But maybe its all about empowering strong, independent women with regards to their bodies.
I think this is a different argument and maybe not one for now. Whether in the porn industry or not, no one is asking to be abused. That should be very clear.
However having someone in this industry castrating men for objectifying women, in my eyes is on very shaky ground.
That said, she is absolutely within her right to highlight the issue of violence against woman, consent etc that are a huge part of this wider issue.
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 01:23:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
Full moon sounds like a real catch, imagine this weapon taking your daughter or sister out!
Aye, ye lads would be more interested taking an ATM out than a woman!
I'd say there are incels that are bigger womanisers than you
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 01:23:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
Full moon sounds like a real catch, imagine this weapon taking your daughter or sister out!
Aye, ye lads would be more interested taking an ATM out than a woman!
I'd say there are incels that are bigger womanisers than you
Is full moon one of our regulars back with a new handle?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 01:23:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
Full moon sounds like a real catch, imagine this weapon taking your daughter or sister out!
Aye, ye lads would be more interested taking an ATM out than a woman!
I'd say there are incels that are bigger womanisers than you
Is full moon one of our regulars back with a new handle?
Who knows but given that it is the first full moon of the year this week no wonder he is howling....
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 02:41:06 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 02:38:21 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 02:13:06 PM
Quote from: full moon on January 18, 2022, 01:23:52 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 18, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
Full moon sounds like a real catch, imagine this weapon taking your daughter or sister out!
Aye, ye lads would be more interested taking an ATM out than a woman!
I'd say there are incels that are bigger womanisers than you
Is full moon one of our regulars back with a new handle?
Who knows but given that it is the first full moon of the year this week no wonder he is howling....
Its a cracking full moon in fairness...
It posted like 5 pages bck to keep on specific topic,yet you are off ranting on very topic under the sun. How about keep this one case specific and some of the previous posters do a thread for the failings of the modern Male.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2022, 10:40:31 AM
Animals. Still think all boy schools are worse that mixed-from experience
What sort of a school did you go through?
They've made an arrest. Hopefully the right guy this time
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0118/1274353-tullamore-murder-investigation/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0118/1274353-tullamore-murder-investigation/)
Poor girl must have put up a hell of a fight for her life if the Gardai were putting the word out for hospitals to be on the alert for people with injuries and wounds.
Quote from: smort on January 18, 2022, 03:18:18 PM
They've made an arrest. Hopefully the right guy this time
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0118/1274353-tullamore-murder-investigation/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0118/1274353-tullamore-murder-investigation/)
In fairness to the Gardaí they were thorough in their approach of contacting the hospitals. Now the news cycle can continue with this development for a few more days.
Quote from: J70 on January 18, 2022, 03:22:37 PM
Poor girl must have put up a hell of a fight for her life if the Gardai were putting the word out for hospitals to be on the alert for people with injuries and wounds.
I believe she broke the guys jaw.
Just a pity it wasn't his neck.
Jesus. Fair play to her. What that poor girl must have went through :(
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
Yeah I thought that
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
If you were a run of the mill pervert I can't imagine you'd take the risk to attack and strangle a young girl in a public space at 4pm. Seems strange to me.
35 Year old man, with 5 children, charged after release from hospital.
The spot looked to be less than 100m from a busy road in plain sight too. It's mad how this happened in the middle of he day
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
If you were a run of the mill pervert I can't imagine you'd take the risk to attack and strangle a young girl in a public space at 4pm. Seems strange to me.
I thought it would be someone who had some sort of psychotic episode due to the fact that if you were in the right frame of mind and planning to do something like this, you wouldn't pick that time/location etc. But on the flip side, the fact he seemingly got away contradicts that theory, unless it was pure random luck that he escaped capture.
Is the fella they charged the same fella that was mentioned a few days ago reporting into a hospital with cuts etc.?
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 18, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
If you were a run of the mill pervert I can't imagine you'd take the risk to attack and strangle a young girl in a public space at 4pm. Seems strange to me.
I thought it would be someone who had some sort of psychotic episode due to the fact that if you were in the right frame of mind and planning to do something like this, you wouldn't pick that time/location etc. But on the flip side, the fact he seemingly got away contradicts that theory, unless it was pure random luck that he escaped capture.
Is the fella they charged the same fella that was mentioned a few days ago reporting into a hospital with cuts etc.?
Not charged yet. Arrested just and it does seem like it was the same fella
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 18, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
If you were a run of the mill pervert I can't imagine you'd take the risk to attack and strangle a young girl in a public space at 4pm. Seems strange to me.
I thought it would be someone who had some sort of psychotic episode due to the fact that if you were in the right frame of mind and planning to do something like this, you wouldn't pick that time/location etc. But on the flip side, the fact he seemingly got away contradicts that theory, unless it was pure random luck that he escaped capture.
Is the fella they charged the same fella that was mentioned a few days ago reporting into a hospital with cuts etc.?
He didn't really get away. She fought back and injured him. There was an alert out for the hospitals. He had to go to hospital for various injuries, some self inflicted. It wasn't the perfect crime.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2022, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on January 18, 2022, 06:18:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
If you were a run of the mill pervert I can't imagine you'd take the risk to attack and strangle a young girl in a public space at 4pm. Seems strange to me.
I thought it would be someone who had some sort of psychotic episode due to the fact that if you were in the right frame of mind and planning to do something like this, you wouldn't pick that time/location etc. But on the flip side, the fact he seemingly got away contradicts that theory, unless it was pure random luck that he escaped capture.
Is the fella they charged the same fella that was mentioned a few days ago reporting into a hospital with cuts etc.?
He didn't really get away. She fought back and injured him. There was an alert out for the hospitals. He had to go to hospital for various injuries, some self inflicted. It wasn't the perfect crime.
What I meant was get away from the scene, especially given the location/time of day when there are so many ways of tracking/spotting people through CCTV, doorbell cameras, dash cams etc. The other thing that doesn't seem to deter people who carry out these crimes is the fact that they nearly all get caught eventually too.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 18, 2022, 04:30:16 PM
Is there any information released as to how she died yet or any possible motive?
Nothing about motive, I suppose until they have someone charged that's up in the air. She did by strangulation it seems
Yeah but they were looking for a weapon so she may also have been beaten or stabbed.
Those Slovak gypsies are lowlifes
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2022, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 08:46:32 PM
Those Slovak gypsies are lowlifes
How many do you know?
I have came across dozens of them in the last few years, more than enough to form an opinion
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
And a hierarchy of assailants too. I wonder what the narrative would be if the alleged killer was a 30 year old GAA, rugby or soccer star from the town?
There was notice really taken of the Yorkshire Ripper when he was Murdering ladies of the night. When he started killing the Girls next door. The interest from the police changed. :-\
Sad to read the last 4 posts !
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
The family/friends of the deceased seemed to control the narrative. Journalists had plenty of content which probably wasn't the case in less covered murders. There was more emphasis on her life than death I think.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
And a hierarchy of assailants too. I wonder what the narrative would be if the alleged killer was a 30 year old GAA, rugby or soccer star from the town?
Do you mean he'd get a easier time if he was a local star or a worse time.
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
There is always a hierarchy when it comes to these cases. Age and looks play a part in the emotional response as well as colour, background, occupation. It is just human nature as all people make judgements.
Quote from: trileacman on January 18, 2022, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
And a hierarchy of assailants too. I wonder what the narrative would be if the alleged killer was a 30 year old GAA, rugby or soccer star from the town?
Do you mean he'd get a easier time if he was a local star or a worse time.
I genuinely don't know but I suspect an easier time.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
There is always a hierarchy when it comes to these cases. Age and looks play a part in the emotional response as well as colour, background, occupation. It is just human nature as all people make judgements.
human nature or learned behaviour..... not for this thread...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2022, 10:57:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 18, 2022, 10:35:06 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
There is always a hierarchy when it comes to these cases. Age and looks play a part in the emotional response as well as colour, background, occupation. It is just human nature as all people make judgements.
human nature or learned behaviour..... not for this thread...
People are more emotionally involved when a victim looks like them or has a lot in common with them
If someone got shot dead in a gangland or traveller feud, most people on here (or anywhere else for that matter) wouldn't give 2 Fv{ks
It even goes beyond what people look like. The Mongolian lady just didn't know many Irish people and was not in widespread associations like Comhaltas or the GAA to say nothing of a school.
If your granny dies in the normal way or a well known author or TV person dies there is a difference in coverage.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-charged-with-murder-of-ashling-murphy-in-tullamore-co-offaly-1.4780743
A man has been remanded in custody for a week charged with the murder of Ashling Murphy.
Jozef Puska (31), with an address at Lynally Grove, Mucklagh, Co Offaly appeared at special sitting of Tullamore District Court on Wednesday evening.
Why is the face blurred out of the person of interest riding the bike that was caught on CCTV?
It's a fuckin media circus and now they are all warning the plebs on social media not to post things on social media.
They gave enough details on the initial suspect to identify him, then blamed Social Media.
Chaos at court today and all the outlets with reporters there after earlier tweeting he will at the courthouse at 8.15pm.
Reports on Twitter of a Slovakian Roma getting a beating on a street by a gang of men in Dublin because he was a "friend" of the accused.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on January 19, 2022, 11:04:48 PM
It's a fuckin media circus and now they are all warning the plebs on social media not to post things on social media.
They gave enough details on the initial suspect to identify him, then blamed Social Media.
Chaos at court today and all the outlets with reporters there after earlier tweeting he will at the courthouse at 8.15pm.
It's already the Irish rugby trial all over again.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 20, 2022, 06:38:22 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on January 19, 2022, 11:04:48 PM
It's a fuckin media circus and now they are all warning the plebs on social media not to post things on social media.
They gave enough details on the initial suspect to identify him, then blamed Social Media.
Chaos at court today and all the outlets with reporters there after earlier tweeting he will at the courthouse at 8.15pm.
It's already the Irish rugby trial all over again.
who died in that one?
17 year old woman with a lucky escape in Kilkenny today while out running
https://www.independent.ie/news/another-horror-story-shock-as-young-woman-17-escapes-after-attack-by-man-while-out-running-in-kilkenny-41296798.html
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 10:47:10 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 18, 2022, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 18, 2022, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 18, 2022, 09:50:28 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on January 18, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
What happened the wee girl was awful and sorry for slightly off topic but the media (social & MSM) definitely drives or determines who gets mourned and who doesn't. Compare Aisling to the Mongolian lady stabbed in Dublin....another one is Sarah Everard to the Muslim girl in South East London. One all over the papers, the other hardly mentioned despite being weeks apart.
Yeah absolutely, occupation always gets mentioned in the first line of the story. Marketing executive Sarah Everard, Teacher Aisling Murphy etc. You don't really see that when it's someone unemployed or doing menial work murdered. It's been like that for years now I suppose. There is certainly a hierarchy of victims
And a hierarchy of assailants too. I wonder what the narrative would be if the alleged killer was a 30 year old GAA, rugby or soccer star from the town?
Do you mean he'd get a easier time if he was a local star or a worse time.
I genuinely don't know but I suspect an easier time.
Two parts to that one:
Does it make a good story? 'Local star' would definitely be a big story and get the coverage, same as 'recent immigrant' has.
Does it make the alleged criminal more relatable to the average reader/viewer/journalist? 'Local star' definitely more relatable so you tend to get the mitigating factors rolling out - he was under pressure in some way, partner recently left him, financial issues etc. Makes it easier to separate ourselves from him but also starts to give the perpetrator an out - wasn't really his fault in some way.
Just reading the updates on the cross examination of the suspect, he has now 18 months later changed his story to him being attacked by a masked man, who had also killed Aisling Murphy, and he just went to assist her in the bushes where she was found.
Have to say he's getting torn to shreds in the updates I have seen, he has admitted to lying continually to police, shaving his beard off in the immediate aftermath of the attack to avoid detection.
The systematic lying means there is no remorse and will result in an increase his sentence. That is how it rolls.
The story that lad tells is so ridiculous, how does he think, it's even remotely believable. Lying bollix. Some nerve on him.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1109/1415616-verdict-due-in-trial-over-murder-of-ashling-murphy/
Found Guilty. Let's hope this POS gets what he deserves when sentenced.
Thankfully Puska didn't sway any of jury with his yarn.
Therein lies the weakness of the legal system. There is no incentive to plead guilty for murder, you might as well try and play silly buggers in court with a state sponsored legal team backing you. Same sentence regardless.
Jury deliberated for just over two hours so thankfully they weren't taken in by his lies.
Strong words from the judge "there is evil in this room"
Were the family members never implicated as accessories as they burnt his clothes after the attack ?
A bad,bad bastard & a very dangerous individual
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 09, 2023, 03:37:00 PMJury deliberated for just over two hours so thankfully they weren't taken in by his lies.
Strong words from the judge "there is evil in this room"
Were the family members never implicated as accessories as they burnt his clothes after the attack ?
A bad,bad bastard & a very dangerous individual
Great argument for Capital Punishment. Clearly no remorse, what he put that family through with the crime alone, but to then torture them further with his court antics, all paid for by taxpayers money, a group to whom Aisling's family also belong. It sickens me.
Human rights are necessary but should not supersede victims rights. This guy has forfeited all his rights as far as I'm concerned. Should never see the light of day again, deserves no appeals. Spending society's finite resources on his upkeep in prison is also a tragic waste for me. There are countless people in society more in need of said resources than this complete POS.
He was out to do damage that day, she wasn't the first woman he had stalked, cctv footage showed him following two other women before he selected Aisling Murphy. And obviously carrying some sort of knife
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 09, 2023, 03:08:00 PMThankfully Puska didn't sway any of jury with his yarn.
Therein lies the weakness of the legal system. There is no incentive to plead guilty for murder, you might as well try and play silly buggers in court with a state sponsored legal team backing you. Same sentence regardless.
Hopefully some of the more informed posters here can comment - but you'd wonder how the defence team feel when trying to put forward an argument of not guilty, when clearly everything points to that guilt.
It's bound to be very difficult to be professional in such a case. Or is it a possibility than the defence team would be happy enough to put a token defence up?
Agree with all posters about the lack of remorse. Followed the trial on twitter and it was rotten what the bastard done.
You'd have to wonder what else he'd done before that?
He hardly became a bad **** that day....
Can this lowlife be deported to serve his sentence ?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 04:26:04 PMYou'd have to wonder what else he'd done before that?
He hardly became a bad **** that day....
One report I read lately thinks he could have killed another 4 or 5 girls, it's rare such murders was a once off.
He seemed pretty active, riding about on his bike torturing women and murdering a woman, all while "disabled"
>:(
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 09, 2023, 06:25:46 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 09, 2023, 04:26:04 PMYou'd have to wonder what else he'd done before that?
He hardly became a bad **** that day....
One report I read lately thinks he could have killed another 4 or 5 girls, it's rare such murders was a once off.
I would be sceptical. If he can't drive, then his ability to murder becomes much more limited.
Also, look at how poorly he plotted and covered his tracks. Stalking women in plain daylight, getting picked up by CCTV all over the town, Leaving his very distinctive bike at the scene.
All very bungled and amateur.
At least some sort of justice has been done. Unfortunately it won't bring Aisling Murphy back.
Heartbreaking for her loved ones. She seemed such a beautiful soul.
Begs the question, why?
Sexual predator? We will never know
Quote from: marty34 on November 09, 2023, 07:12:16 PMBegs the question, why?
I had heard 2nd hand that she was a Teacher to one of his kids and she reported marks on that kid.
(Not comfortable putting that up here, so if Mods think not appropriate then remove)
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 09, 2023, 09:23:34 PMQuote from: marty34 on November 09, 2023, 07:12:16 PMBegs the question, why?
I had heard 2nd hand that she was a Teacher to one of his kids and she reported marks on that kid.
(Not comfortable putting that up here, so if Mods think not appropriate then remove)
It was stated in court they were not known to each other in any way, im sure if she taught one of his kids it would have came out. He also seemed to be prowling for any women, she was just very unlucky & in the wrong place at the wrong time
It's sorta they convicted him, fought him guilty etc, maybe better leaving it at that going forward. And leave the why, to we never know..
Unless you are of that mindset you'd never understand. No normal person could understand how someone could behave like that. Someone said earlier in this thread about the lies being terrible - the lies compounded things for the family but they're tame compared to the rest of it. You could never understand how a person could do this at all.
Is there minimum terms in the south for a life sentence or what was does it work ?
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 09, 2023, 09:23:34 PMQuote from: marty34 on November 09, 2023, 07:12:16 PMBegs the question, why?
I had heard 2nd hand that she was a Teacher to one of his kids and she reported marks on that kid.
(Not comfortable putting that up here, so if Mods think not appropriate then remove)
Yes, I heard that as well - from a couple of very good sources (ie. teachers, and ones related to the poor girl). Seemingly they didn't want it getting out for fear other teachers would be too afraid to report suspected abuse cases in future.
Justice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 10:26:00 PMQuote from: From the Bunker on November 09, 2023, 09:23:34 PMQuote from: marty34 on November 09, 2023, 07:12:16 PMBegs the question, why?
I had heard 2nd hand that she was a Teacher to one of his kids and she reported marks on that kid.
(Not comfortable putting that up here, so if Mods think not appropriate then remove)
Yes, I heard that as well - from a couple of very good sources (ie. teachers, and ones related to the poor girl). Seemingly they didn't want it getting out for fear other teachers would be too afraid to report suspected abuse cases in future.
I don't see any substance to the rumour. She taught in a school that was outside of Tullamore where his children didn't attend.
It was accepted by all parties in the trial that they didn't know each other.
He was following and stalking random women on the day and Aisling just happened to be the unfortunate one.
Quote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
No...I think you need to look at yourself
A Romany Gypsy, who's never contributed a blessed thing to this country, murdered an innocent woman in cold blood.
He doesn't work. He has five kids. He's on disability. He lives in a five bedroom house. All paid for by the taxpayer
You have the cheek to come on here and scold people who are upset that their taxes are used to provide him the best legal aid money can buy ?
Bowman is one of the best (and obviously best paid) Barristers in the country
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 03:07:10 AMQuote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
No...I think you need to look at yourself
A Romany Gypsy, who's never contributed a blessed thing to this country, murdered an innocent woman in cold blood.
He doesn't work. He has five kids. He's on disability. He lives in a five bedroom house. All paid for by the taxpayer
You have the cheek to come on here and scold people who are upset that their taxes are used to provide him the best legal aid money can buy ?
Bowman is one of the best (and obviously best paid) Barristers in the country
As much as there seemed ti be little doubt in this trial and in a just world he'd have been killed slowly, everyone absolutely is entitled to a fair trial, which includes a good defence. Anything else is a slippery slope
At least Ashling's family got to bury her and have closure. Jojo Dollard's family have neither.
First off, "best paid" is irrelevant. Legal aid is a set rate. He's not setting whatever fees he wants.
Secondly, fair access to the justice system is a key component of any functioning democracy, especially in a criminal trial where the state prosecutes the case. Surely you can understand that justice must be fair, yes?
He's a gypsy with five kids on benefits. Other than your well documented racism and detest for poor people, what does any of that matter? What do you actually want to see, him defend himself in a kangaroo court?
For the more bloodthirsty amongst you, who simply want someone locked up regardless of whether the cops got the right man, maybe perhaps you can understand that an incompetent defense would more likely give grounds for an appeal, prolonging the ordeal for the family. I remember when the Joanna Yates murder was discussed on here, several posters has swallowed the "creepy landlord" media hatchet job about Christopher Jefferies and decided at that point it was time to lock him up and throw away the key. The state should be seeking to ensure the defendant obtains the BEST defense possible and that that legal team does the BEST job it possibly can. It makes convictions more secure, strengthens the judicial system and rule of law. Do you not see or understand that?
As for "having the cheek", yes I absolutely do. Same way you have the cheek to sit across the pond and pontificate endlessly about things you haven't the slightest clue about.
QuoteJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
QuoteNo...I think you need to look at yourself
A Romany Gypsy, who's never contributed a blessed thing to this country, murdered an innocent woman in cold blood.
He doesn't work. He has five kids. He's on disability. He lives in a five bedroom house. All paid for by the taxpayer
You have the cheek to come on here and scold people who are upset that their taxes are used to provide him the best legal aid money can buy ?
Bowman is one of the best (and obviously best paid) Barristers in the country
QuoteAs much as there seemed ti be little doubt in this trial and in a just world he'd have been killed slowly, everyone absolutely is entitled to a fair trial, which includes a good defence. Anything else is a slippery slope
Agreed. You have to do the thing right and a fair trial and defence is a basic entitlement to all. The worst thing that could happen would be the case thrown out due to outside interference with attacks on Bowman or the likes.
My previous post was more questioning how difficult it would be to remain professional defending such a case with overwhelming evidence.
Quote from: JohnDenver on November 10, 2023, 08:44:38 AMQuoteJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
QuoteNo...I think you need to look at yourself
A Romany Gypsy, who's never contributed a blessed thing to this country, murdered an innocent woman in cold blood.
He doesn't work. He has five kids. He's on disability. He lives in a five bedroom house. All paid for by the taxpayer
You have the cheek to come on here and scold people who are upset that their taxes are used to provide him the best legal aid money can buy ?
Bowman is one of the best (and obviously best paid) Barristers in the country
QuoteAs much as there seemed ti be little doubt in this trial and in a just world he'd have been killed slowly, everyone absolutely is entitled to a fair trial, which includes a good defence. Anything else is a slippery slope
Agreed. You have to do the thing right and a fair trial and defence is a basic entitlement to all. The worst thing that could happen would be the case thrown out due to outside interference with attacks on Bowman or the likes.
My previous post was more questioning how difficult it would be to remain professional defending such a case with overwhelming evidence.
Yeah couldn't be easy but I suppose its part and parcel of the job. Any decent barrister I'm sure will have plenty of cases where they've known the defendant is guilty.
Just have to be professional I suppose
Yeah it's par for the course I think. You could apply that at any level of even wee scumbags being defended for shoplifting right the way up to very horrendous acts like this. I dunno how they do it but like you say they need to remain professional and everyone should have a fair trial. If you don't have a fair trial then tbh your country and system is couped.
Irish Times
"In the aftermath of the killing rumours, which have persisted, circulated that Ms Murphy knew Puska's children through her job as a national school teacher and had reported him to the authorities over child welfare concerns. It was widely claimed Puska planned the attack on Ms Murphy as revenge for her alerting the authorities, none of which was true.
Instead, gardaí believe Puska was intent on attacking a woman on the day that he killed Ms Murphy. He had followed other women in the Tullamore area on the same day, before finally spotting Ms Murphy at a stretch of the Grand Canal just outside the town when she was jogging."
Defending someone who you know in your heart of hearts is guilty is very difficult. I don't work in criminal law anymore but have done so over the years and have worked on a number of murder trials, rape trials etc. The hardest cases I have ever had to deal with on a 'conscience' basis was a multiple child abuse case. The defendant was so lacking in remorse that I just wanted to reach across the table and beat his head into a pulp because of what he had done. I can still see his face and still know his name some 20 years on. The key to it is to not make personal connections, don't take it home and don't speak to your loved ones for a week!!!!
As for this case it was as clear cut that he was going to be found guilty. It's unusual for a defendant to give evidence in a murder trial as generally the defence will rely on inconsistency in the prosecution's case to cast doubt. When you go so off track like he did in his evidence it opens up so many other doors for your case to be cut open. Surprised at the defence in taking this approach but hey ho. Hopefully he gets a long tariff. He won't have an easy time inside I'd say
Quote from: gallsman on November 10, 2023, 08:44:17 AMFirst off, "best paid" is irrelevant. Legal aid is a set rate. He's not setting whatever fees he wants.
Secondly, fair access to the justice system is a key component of any functioning democracy, especially in a criminal trial where the state prosecutes the case. Surely you can understand that justice must be fair, yes?
He's a gypsy with five kids on benefits. Other than your well documented racism and detest for poor people, what does any of that matter? What do you actually want to see, him defend himself in a kangaroo court?
For the more bloodthirsty amongst you, who simply want someone locked up regardless of whether the cops got the right man, maybe perhaps you can understand that an incompetent defense would more likely give grounds for an appeal, prolonging the ordeal for the family. I remember when the Joanna Yates murder was discussed on here, several posters has swallowed the "creepy landlord" media hatchet job about Christopher Jefferies and decided at that point it was time to lock him up and throw away the key. The state should be seeking to ensure the defendant obtains the BEST defense possible and that that legal team does the BEST job it possibly can. It makes convictions more secure, strengthens the judicial system and rule of law. Do you not see or understand that?
As for "having the cheek", yes I absolutely do. Same way you have the cheek to sit across the pond and pontificate endlessly about things you haven't the slightest clue about.
f**k off you do gooder p***k
Quote from: samuel maguire on November 10, 2023, 10:59:50 AMQuote from: gallsman on November 10, 2023, 08:44:17 AMFirst off, "best paid" is irrelevant. Legal aid is a set rate. He's not setting whatever fees he wants.
Secondly, fair access to the justice system is a key component of any functioning democracy, especially in a criminal trial where the state prosecutes the case. Surely you can understand that justice must be fair, yes?
He's a gypsy with five kids on benefits. Other than your well documented racism and detest for poor people, what does any of that matter? What do you actually want to see, him defend himself in a kangaroo court?
For the more bloodthirsty amongst you, who simply want someone locked up regardless of whether the cops got the right man, maybe perhaps you can understand that an incompetent defense would more likely give grounds for an appeal, prolonging the ordeal for the family. I remember when the Joanna Yates murder was discussed on here, several posters has swallowed the "creepy landlord" media hatchet job about Christopher Jefferies and decided at that point it was time to lock him up and throw away the key. The state should be seeking to ensure the defendant obtains the BEST defense possible and that that legal team does the BEST job it possibly can. It makes convictions more secure, strengthens the judicial system and rule of law. Do you not see or understand that?
As for "having the cheek", yes I absolutely do. Same way you have the cheek to sit across the pond and pontificate endlessly about things you haven't the slightest clue about.
f**k off you do gooder p***k
😂 the shape of this!!
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 10, 2023, 11:01:53 AMQuote from: samuel maguire on November 10, 2023, 10:59:50 AMQuote from: gallsman on November 10, 2023, 08:44:17 AMFirst off, "best paid" is irrelevant. Legal aid is a set rate. He's not setting whatever fees he wants.
Secondly, fair access to the justice system is a key component of any functioning democracy, especially in a criminal trial where the state prosecutes the case. Surely you can understand that justice must be fair, yes?
He's a gypsy with five kids on benefits. Other than your well documented racism and detest for poor people, what does any of that matter? What do you actually want to see, him defend himself in a kangaroo court?
For the more bloodthirsty amongst you, who simply want someone locked up regardless of whether the cops got the right man, maybe perhaps you can understand that an incompetent defense would more likely give grounds for an appeal, prolonging the ordeal for the family. I remember when the Joanna Yates murder was discussed on here, several posters has swallowed the "creepy landlord" media hatchet job about Christopher Jefferies and decided at that point it was time to lock him up and throw away the key. The state should be seeking to ensure the defendant obtains the BEST defense possible and that that legal team does the BEST job it possibly can. It makes convictions more secure, strengthens the judicial system and rule of law. Do you not see or understand that?
As for "having the cheek", yes I absolutely do. Same way you have the cheek to sit across the pond and pontificate endlessly about things you haven't the slightest clue about.
f**k off you do gooder p***k
😂 the shape of this!!
I hate how matter of factly he threw out the racism card, does my head in
Quote from: samuel maguire on November 10, 2023, 11:02:40 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 10, 2023, 11:01:53 AMQuote from: samuel maguire on November 10, 2023, 10:59:50 AMQuote from: gallsman on November 10, 2023, 08:44:17 AMFirst off, "best paid" is irrelevant. Legal aid is a set rate. He's not setting whatever fees he wants.
Secondly, fair access to the justice system is a key component of any functioning democracy, especially in a criminal trial where the state prosecutes the case. Surely you can understand that justice must be fair, yes?
He's a gypsy with five kids on benefits. Other than your well documented racism and detest for poor people, what does any of that matter? What do you actually want to see, him defend himself in a kangaroo court?
For the more bloodthirsty amongst you, who simply want someone locked up regardless of whether the cops got the right man, maybe perhaps you can understand that an incompetent defense would more likely give grounds for an appeal, prolonging the ordeal for the family. I remember when the Joanna Yates murder was discussed on here, several posters has swallowed the "creepy landlord" media hatchet job about Christopher Jefferies and decided at that point it was time to lock him up and throw away the key. The state should be seeking to ensure the defendant obtains the BEST defense possible and that that legal team does the BEST job it possibly can. It makes convictions more secure, strengthens the judicial system and rule of law. Do you not see or understand that?
As for "having the cheek", yes I absolutely do. Same way you have the cheek to sit across the pond and pontificate endlessly about things you haven't the slightest clue about.
f**k off you do gooder p***k
😂 the shape of this!!
I hate how matter of factly he threw out the racism card, does my head in
Highlighting potential racism is an issue that does your head in? That's prob something you should keep to yourself.
Man thinks someone being a "Romany gypsy" should in someway disqualify that person from having fair access to the justice system.
Thinking that ALL should have fair access to justice system, regardless of background, creed, colour, sexual orientation etc etc etc makes someone "a do gooder p***k".
But yes, it's the "racism card". Good job by you.
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 10, 2023, 09:23:46 AMIrish Times
"In the aftermath of the killing rumours, which have persisted, circulated that Ms Murphy knew Puska's children through her job as a national school teacher and had reported him to the authorities over child welfare concerns. It was widely claimed Puska planned the attack on Ms Murphy as revenge for her alerting the authorities, none of which was true.
Instead, gardaí believe Puska was intent on attacking a woman on the day that he killed Ms Murphy. He had followed other women in the Tullamore area on the same day, before finally spotting Ms Murphy at a stretch of the Grand Canal just outside the town when she was jogging."
The Irish Times? Nah - I'd be more inclined to believe a close relation of Ms Murphy.
Quote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
Nothing dangerous about having an opinion on where our common resources as a society go to. What is extremely dangerous to society though is having sick twisted homicidal filth walk amongst us, a lot of whom do unspeakable horrors, and then the notion that a lot of these can be reformed and released back to society when a period of time has elapsed where it feels acceptable to forget the crime or the poor victim.
No one mentioned anything against the right to fair trial but frivolous defence compounding the terrible suffering of a victim should carry very harsh penalties.
And sure, it would be nice to think we can reform criminals but all the ills of the world form a very big pie and there's not enough to go around. So sure, look after them if there's some left over but victims of crime are way way up my list of priorities.
Quote from: Look-Up! on November 10, 2023, 03:57:55 PMQuote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
Nothing dangerous about having an opinion on where our common resources as a society go to. What is extremely dangerous to society though is having sick twisted homicidal filth walk amongst us, a lot of whom do unspeakable horrors, and then the notion that a lot of these can be reformed and released back to society when a period of time has elapsed where it feels acceptable to forget the crime or the poor victim.
No one mentioned anything against the right to fair trial but frivolous defence compounding the terrible suffering of a victim should carry very harsh penalties.
And sure, it would be nice to think we can reform criminals but all the ills of the world form a very big pie and there's not enough to go around. So sure, look after them if there's some left over but victims of crime are way way up my list of priorities.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Everyone. Better to give them a good defence so there can be no doubt and no appeal. f**kers like him should be tortured to death though.
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 10, 2023, 09:23:46 AMIrish Times
"In the aftermath of the killing rumours, which have persisted, circulated that Ms Murphy knew Puska's children through her job as a national school teacher and had reported him to the authorities over child welfare concerns. It was widely claimed Puska planned the attack on Ms Murphy as revenge for her alerting the authorities, none of which was true.
Instead, gardaí believe Puska was intent on attacking a woman on the day that he killed Ms Murphy. He had followed other women in the Tullamore area on the same day, before finally spotting Ms Murphy at a stretch of the Grand Canal just outside the town when she was jogging."
Will always be idiots starting silly rumours and it appears such rumors caught the attention a few on here.
The poor girl in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Idiots? No shortage of them going around.
Some of the lads here surely be delighted to have renowned thinker Conor McGregor weighing in on the matter.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 10, 2023, 04:02:52 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on November 10, 2023, 03:57:55 PMQuote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
Nothing dangerous about having an opinion on where our common resources as a society go to. What is extremely dangerous to society though is having sick twisted homicidal filth walk amongst us, a lot of whom do unspeakable horrors, and then the notion that a lot of these can be reformed and released back to society when a period of time has elapsed where it feels acceptable to forget the crime or the poor victim.
No one mentioned anything against the right to fair trial but frivolous defence compounding the terrible suffering of a victim should carry very harsh penalties.
And sure, it would be nice to think we can reform criminals but all the ills of the world form a very big pie and there's not enough to go around. So sure, look after them if there's some left over but victims of crime are way way up my list of priorities.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Everyone. Better to give them a good defence so there can be no doubt and no appeal. f**kers like him should be tortured to death though.
He certainly deserves torture. He got his fair trial, I don't think there can be any doubt on his quilt, lack of remorse or his sick twisted game of control he feels he can still play on victims family.
I don't see of what use he is to society now or ever will be and it's a terrible waste of taxpayers money and resources to spend one more penny on him. A perfect case for capital punishment if ever there was.
Capital punishment/State murder would certainly have saved the Brits a fortune on those Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Judith Ward etc.....
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 05:07:13 PMCapital punishment/State murder would certainly have saved the Brits a fortune on those Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Judith Ward etc.....
Unfair trials and in that scenario I would certainly be in favour of severely strict punishments for corrupt police who manufacture evidence or testimony.
But you could just as easily list off countless cases where if punishment had been properly administered, no further innocent victims would have suffered or lost their lives because of the kid glove treatment some serious offenders/reoffenders have received.
You don't agree with capital punishment, fine, that's you right, but doesn't mean others are wrong or morally inferior.
No one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Everyone should be entitled to a top defence. Yeah its sickening this **** will probably end up costing the tax payer hundreds of thousands if not more by the time his miserable life is over.
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
What did he do in Massachusetts?
Quote from: Look-Up! on November 10, 2023, 05:19:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 05:07:13 PMCapital punishment/State murder would certainly have saved the Brits a fortune on those Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Judith Ward etc.....
Unfair trials and in that scenario I would certainly be in favour of severely strict punishments for corrupt police who manufacture evidence or testimony.
But you could just as easily list off countless cases where if punishment had been properly administered, no further innocent victims would have suffered or lost their lives because of the kid glove treatment some serious offenders/reoffenders have received.
You don't agree with capital punishment, fine, that's you right, but doesn't mean others are wrong or morally inferior.
You're putting up a lot of straw men there.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 10, 2023, 04:02:52 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on November 10, 2023, 03:57:55 PMQuote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
Nothing dangerous about having an opinion on where our common resources as a society go to. What is extremely dangerous to society though is having sick twisted homicidal filth walk amongst us, a lot of whom do unspeakable horrors, and then the notion that a lot of these can be reformed and released back to society when a period of time has elapsed where it feels acceptable to forget the crime or the poor victim.
No one mentioned anything against the right to fair trial but frivolous defence compounding the terrible suffering of a victim should carry very harsh penalties.
And sure, it would be nice to think we can reform criminals but all the ills of the world form a very big pie and there's not enough to go around. So sure, look after them if there's some left over but victims of crime are way way up my list of priorities.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Everyone. Better to give them a good defence so there can be no doubt and no appeal. f**kers like him should be tortured to death though.
I genuinely hope what happens in the whole prison showers thing is not a myth.
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Can't say that it's racist...
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 10, 2023, 07:53:22 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Can't say that it's racist...
There are many things worse than racism, and murder is certainly one of them.
Quote from: clarshack on November 10, 2023, 07:43:05 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 10, 2023, 04:02:52 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on November 10, 2023, 03:57:55 PMQuote from: gallsman on November 09, 2023, 10:36:58 PMJustice served.
Couple of borderline dangerous comments about a defendant's right to a fair trial. "At taxpayers expense" etc. Need to have a hard look at yourselves.
Nothing dangerous about having an opinion on where our common resources as a society go to. What is extremely dangerous to society though is having sick twisted homicidal filth walk amongst us, a lot of whom do unspeakable horrors, and then the notion that a lot of these can be reformed and released back to society when a period of time has elapsed where it feels acceptable to forget the crime or the poor victim.
No one mentioned anything against the right to fair trial but frivolous defence compounding the terrible suffering of a victim should carry very harsh penalties.
And sure, it would be nice to think we can reform criminals but all the ills of the world form a very big pie and there's not enough to go around. So sure, look after them if there's some left over but victims of crime are way way up my list of priorities.
Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Everyone. Better to give them a good defence so there can be no doubt and no appeal. f**kers like him should be tortured to death though.
I genuinely hope what happens in the whole prison showers thing is not a myth.
Isn't that what gets men like him into bother in the first place. I genuinely hope that sort of thing is not going on.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2023, 08:05:14 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
I'd a West African woman in the other day at work.. she's working 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts.
I'd a glue bag local in soon after, never worked a day in his puff..
It's up to the rule makers, who the general public vote in (that's you and me) who decide how this pans out..
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Free legal aid does what it says on the tin. Don't worry, Whitey, if you may not be fliúrseach. If you commmiťed a heinous crime below in McHale Park you would be entitled to it. Free legal aid is an important part of a justice system.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2023, 08:05:14 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
Couldn't care less about tax, long as they working tbh.
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 12:41:49 AMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Free legal aid does what it says on the tin. Don't worry, Whitey, if you may not be fliúrseach. If you commmiťed a heinous crime below in McHale Park you would be entitled to it. Free legal aid is an important part of a justice system.
Would I be entitled to be represented by the best and highest paid barrister in the country like this tr@mp was?
A regular Irish person would probably get someone who qualified last week
https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/top-criminal-legal-aid-lawyers-earn-over-eur690000
"Michael Bowman SC topped the table for senior counsel by a considerable margin with payments of €692,095 in 2021, with the next highest earner being Padraig Dwyer SC on €599,488"
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2023, 04:03:07 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 12:41:49 AMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Free legal aid does what it says on the tin. Don't worry, Whitey, if you may not be fliúrseach. If you commmiťed a heinous crime below in McHale Park you would be entitled to it. Free legal aid is an important part of a justice system.
Would I be entitled to be represented by the best and highest paid barrister in the country like this tr@mp was?
A regular Irish person would probably get someone who qualified last week
https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/top-criminal-legal-aid-lawyers-earn-over-eur690000
"Michael Bowman SC topped the table for senior counsel by a considerable margin with payments of €692,095 in 2021, with the next highest earner being Padraig Dwyer SC on €599,488"
If you committed a high profile crime that commanded national attention you would.
The issue of how much lawyers get paid is separate. It is a joke.
Before there was legal aid poor people got shafted by the legal system. A regular Irish sc**bag who murdered his wife in some gruesome manner would get the top legal brains too. Nobody can say that they do not get a fair trial.
If you want to talk about a legal charade how about Molly Martens ?
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2023, 04:03:07 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 12:41:49 AMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Free legal aid does what it says on the tin. Don't worry, Whitey, if you may not be fliúrseach. If you commmiťed a heinous crime below in McHale Park you would be entitled to it. Free legal aid is an important part of a justice system.
Would I be entitled to be represented by the best and highest paid barrister in the country like this tr@mp was?
A regular Irish person would probably get someone who qualified last week
https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/top-criminal-legal-aid-lawyers-earn-over-eur690000
"Michael Bowman SC topped the table for senior counsel by a considerable margin with payments of €692,095 in 2021, with the next highest earner being Padraig Dwyer SC on €599,488"
Legal aid fees are capped. He doesn't get to charge his private fee for public work.
In the North they went on strike as the fees are set too low.
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2023, 04:03:07 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 12:41:49 AMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
Free legal aid does what it says on the tin. Don't worry, Whitey, if you may not be fliúrseach. If you commmiťed a heinous crime below in McHale Park you would be entitled to it. Free legal aid is an important part of a justice system.
Would I be entitled to be represented by the best and highest paid barrister in the country like this tr@mp was?
A regular Irish person would probably get someone who qualified last week
https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/top-criminal-legal-aid-lawyers-earn-over-eur690000
"Michael Bowman SC topped the table for senior counsel by a considerable margin with payments of €692,095 in 2021, with the next highest earner being Padraig Dwyer SC on €599,488"
Is legal aid not capped at a standard rate?
High profile case will attract a high profile lawyer...
Attention good or bad is good business
Good point, are these barristers pick or do they request a case?
How does it work?
Does a Barrister have to wait for a Solicitor to approach them?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2023, 08:05:14 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
Same in Lurgan. Some work in car washes but the majority are spongers
Quote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2023, 12:23:42 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2023, 08:05:14 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
Same in Lurgan. Some work in car washes but the majority are spongers
Can illegal immigrants claim the dole?
Obviously by definition NO!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:49:15 PMQuote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2023, 12:23:42 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2023, 08:05:14 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
Same in Lurgan. Some work in car washes but the majority are spongers
Can illegal immigrants claim the dole?
You asked the wrong question
Can they claim "benefits"? There's possibly other schemes they qualify for that wouldn't be under the strict definition of unemployment benefits
Then redefine "illegal immigrant" ?
Would a failed/fraudulent asylum seeker who's subject to a deportation order qualify for benefits?
Questions about spongers and barristers. Can barristers be both ?
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2023, 01:35:36 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 12:49:15 PMQuote from: nrico2006 on November 11, 2023, 12:23:42 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on November 10, 2023, 08:05:14 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 10, 2023, 07:49:53 PMQuote from: whitey on November 10, 2023, 05:28:59 PMNo one is saying he's not entitled to a fair trial
People have a right to be upset that someone who came here, contributed nothing, milked the system for all it was worth, committed a henious crime And was then given (free) legal aid that most of us could never afford
The Roma/Slovakian have been some addition to Ireland. Where would we be without their brothels, that are then laundered through car washes?
Just here for the easy life sitting on their "disabled" hole unfortunately and anything illicit going, all the better.
Does anyone know of any of them working in a tax-paying job? I see them hanging around Armagh all the time and the only ones that seem to work are in the car wash.
Same in Lurgan. Some work in car washes but the majority are spongers
Can illegal immigrants claim the dole?
You asked the wrong question
Can they claim "benefits"? There's possibly other schemes they qualify for that wouldn't be under the strict definition of unemployment benefits
Then redefine "illegal immigrant" ?
Would a failed/fraudulent asylum seeker who's subject to a deportation order qualify for benefits?
I asked the correct question, they wouldn't be sponging if they can't claim the dole..
It's down to how people are processed, if the regulations are robust and carried out then that's ok..
Due to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
Well that's ok then, being part of the EU meant that was the rules... you can opt out though....
You can live in Spain or France or Turkey
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
North? Left the EU, no?
Quote from: burdizzo on November 12, 2023, 12:00:37 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
North? Left the EU, no?
Yeah but it took a long time to actually leave, they have been arriving in their droves in the intervening years
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
Yes but freedom of movement is for the purposes of work, not quite a question of showing up and signing on.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2023, 01:07:14 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
Yes but freedom of movement is for the purposes of work, not quite a question of showing up and signing on.
If a local is on the dole, they are on Jobseekers, they must be looking/seeking for a job, they are or should be accountable to do that, it's up to that department to enforce that, and follow the procedures if they are not compliant.
The system needs to change, stop generalising on claimants, I'd say the ratio between 'natives' and foreigners/immigrants/illegals is massive on claiming benefits
Quote from: Rossfan on November 11, 2023, 12:04:55 PMDoes a Barrister have to wait for a Solicitor to approach them?
Yes. Client/defendant contacts a Solicitor (you can't as a defendant phone a Barrister directly).
Solicitor then 'briefs' a barrister to conduct the case in Court. In the Crown (in the North) or Circuit Court (in the South) only a Barrister runs the case in Court (has Rights of Audience/is permitted to speak)
Solicitor has to deal with the thousands of phone calls and torturing from whingy, self pitying, remorseless clients who on the whole don't give a flying fu k about what they did, who they hurt, etc etc. That's the nature of drug addiction, mental health, psychosis, sociopaths etc. Lawyers represent them and advise them of the evidence in a case. Its up to the punter whether to take that advice or not.
I'm sure this Roma wouldve been advised he was fucked (had no prospect of being acquitted) and should plead (as he would have got a lesser tariff). But clients often ignore legal advice. In that case a Defence Team will have to 'test' the evidence and see if there's reasonable doubt. In this case though they'd know their client was being convicted all day long. Despite that theyve a duty to do their best in a caae to discharge their duty to their client.
Same legal aid fee win or lose too
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 12, 2023, 12:12:29 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 12, 2023, 12:00:37 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
North? Left the EU, no?
Yeah but it took a long time to actually leave, they have been arriving in their droves in the intervening years
"Droves" (far right speak😉)
As far as I know there are very few Slovaks here in the 26.
Edit - 10,800 Slovaks, 16,000 "identified as Roma".
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2023, 09:26:38 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 12, 2023, 12:12:29 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 12, 2023, 12:00:37 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 11, 2023, 06:57:21 PMDue to the Slovaks & Romas being from EU countries they are home free when it comes to benefits, north and south
North? Left the EU, no?
Yeah but it took a long time to actually leave, they have been arriving in their droves in the intervening years
"Droves" (far right speak😉)
As far as I know there are very few Slovaks here.
What you call 'far right speak', most of the time is just common sense talk.
Quote from: Gold on November 12, 2023, 07:55:03 AMI'm sure this Roma wouldve been advised he was fucked (had no prospect of being acquitted) and should plead (as he would have got a lesser tariff).
In a murder, there is no lesser tariff for pleading guilty. So basically, you might as well take a shot to nothing with the state's money backing you.
That's why Puska decided to play silly buggers and invent the story about him fighting the real killer.
If he had managed to get just one gullible juror to swallow it, then the murder charge doesn't stick.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 07:03:14 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on November 10, 2023, 05:19:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 05:07:13 PMCapital punishment/State murder would certainly have saved the Brits a fortune on those Birmingham 6, Guildford 4, Judith Ward etc.....
Unfair trials and in that scenario I would certainly be in favour of severely strict punishments for corrupt police who manufacture evidence or testimony.
But you could just as easily list off countless cases where if punishment had been properly administered, no further innocent victims would have suffered or lost their lives because of the kid glove treatment some serious offenders/reoffenders have received.
You don't agree with capital punishment, fine, that's you right, but doesn't mean others are wrong or morally inferior.
You're putting up a lot of straw men there.
Oh the irony
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on November 13, 2023, 03:16:43 PMQuote from: Gold on November 12, 2023, 07:55:03 AMI'm sure this Roma wouldve been advised he was fucked (had no prospect of being acquitted) and should plead (as he would have got a lesser tariff).
In a murder, there is no lesser tariff for pleading guilty. So basically, you might as well take a shot to nothing with the state's money backing you.
That's why Puska decided to play silly buggers and invent the story about him fighting the real killer.
If he had managed to get just one gullible juror to swallow it, then the murder charge doesn't stick.
Didn't know that. Worth chancing your arm then if you're him
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 13, 2023, 05:46:17 PMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on November 13, 2023, 03:16:43 PMQuote from: Gold on November 12, 2023, 07:55:03 AMI'm sure this Roma wouldve been advised he was fucked (had no prospect of being acquitted) and should plead (as he would have got a lesser tariff).
In a murder, there is no lesser tariff for pleading guilty. So basically, you might as well take a shot to nothing with the state's money backing you.
That's why Puska decided to play silly buggers and invent the story about him fighting the real killer.
If he had managed to get just one gullible juror to swallow it, then the murder charge doesn't stick.
Didn't know that. Worth chancing your arm then if you're him
Or when you have already confessed and the evidence is overwhelming, you could plead guilty to prevent the family having to sit through the ordeal of a trial.
If you're a person capable of doing this kind of thing I doubt the feelings of the family would cross your mind particularly much.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 13, 2023, 06:02:04 PMIf you're a person capable of doing this kind of thing I doubt the feelings of the family would cross your mind particularly much.
It does happen though, some people do show remorse. I take your point though
Think the judge in the UK can reduce the minimum life term due to a guilty plea ? Though no reduction applies if a whole life order is determined.
Did I read that right that a life sentence in the south you are eligible to apply for parole after 12 years, and every two years after that ?
Must be one the more lenient sentencing regimes? And yes I understand that you still may not be released after 12 years.
Jeez this is a tough read. Just brutal on him & the family.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-sit-at-the-shrine-i-made-for-her-in-my-room-before-going-to-bed-each-night-ashling-murphys-boyfriends-emotional-court-statement-in-full/a138727652.html
Jesus such a tough read. Heart is broke for the poor fella and the family. If there was any justice in the world that scum would spend the rest of his days being tortured.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2023, 05:14:12 PMJesus such a tough read. Heart is broke for the poor fella and the family. If there was any justice in the world that scum would spend the rest of his days being tortured.
Poor lad. :(
Shocking pointless murder. A fella like that shouldn't see the light of day again. I hope he gets what's coming to him.
Quote from: Itchy on November 17, 2023, 05:22:21 PMShocking pointless murder. A fella like that shouldn't see the light of day again. I hope he gets what's coming to him.
Is the boyfriend a far right racist ? Going by your previous posts you must think he is
Have a bit of class. There's no shortage of places where you can score points against other posters - fcuk off out of here with that shite.
Quote from: StephenC on November 17, 2023, 06:05:54 PMHave a bit of class. There's no shortage of places where you can score points against other posters - fcuk off out of here with that shite.
Classy.
I'd say he is stricken with grief
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 17, 2023, 05:54:16 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 17, 2023, 05:22:21 PMShocking pointless murder. A fella like that shouldn't see the light of day again. I hope he gets what's coming to him.
Is the boyfriend a far right racist ? Going by your previous posts you must think he is
Probably not the place for this.
Quote from: Itchy on November 17, 2023, 06:48:59 PMI'd say he is stricken with grief
Of course he is, reading that the poor lads life has shattered and I'm sure looking at that smug p***k in court trying to deny it didn't help.
Hopefully the lad and the family can get some sort of closure now.
See that some GAA player from Meath has went viral for calling Ashling Murphy's boyfriend a racist.
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2023, 08:49:44 PMSee that some GAA player from Meath has went viral for calling Ashling Murphy's boyfriend a racist.
Virtue-signalling p***k.
Can someone post the tweet here? Can't find it.
99.99% of everyone on this board agrees with the man. Poor man
Quote from: 5times5times on November 17, 2023, 09:17:56 PMCan someone post the tweet here? Can't find it.
99.99% of everyone on this board agrees with the man. Poor man
Search Gary Akins
What Ryan Casey said today
It just sickens me to the core that someone can come to this country, be fully supported in terms of social housing, social welfare, and free medical care for over 10 years – over 10 years – never hold down a legitimate job, and never once contribute to society in any way shape or form... They can commit such a horrendous evil act of incomprehensible violence on such a beautiful, loving and talented person who in fact, worked for the state, educating the next generation. She represented everything that is good about Irish society.
I feel like this country is no longer the country that Ashling and I grew up in and has officially lost its innocence when a crime of this magnitude can be perpetrated in broad daylight.
What the bbc reported -
Ashling's boyfriend Ryan Casey told how the pair had met an architect just weeks before Ashling's death, with the aim of building a house together to live in, and that they planned to marry and have children together.
"I'd smile to myself thinking, I cant wait to marry that girl. I would've married her a long time ago and I wish I did but we didn't get a chance to reach that part," he said.
"Ireland has officially lost its innocence that a crime of this magnitude can be done in daylight.
"Our country is heading down a very dangerous path and we will not be the the last family."
Quote from: burdizzo on November 17, 2023, 06:09:18 PMQuote from: StephenC on November 17, 2023, 06:05:54 PMHave a bit of class. There's no shortage of places where you can score points against other posters - fcuk off out of here with that shite.
Classy.
StephenC is right, this is not the place for point scoring
Quote from: 5times5times on November 17, 2023, 09:17:56 PMCan someone post the tweet here? Can't find it.
99.99% of everyone on this board agrees with the man. Poor man
Haven't see it either. Not sure how you can disagree with anything that poor fella has said in his statement. Would near have you in tears reading it.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2023, 07:54:33 AMQuote from: 5times5times on November 17, 2023, 09:17:56 PMCan someone post the tweet here? Can't find it.
99.99% of everyone on this board agrees with the man. Poor man
Haven't see it either. Not sure how you can disagree with anything that poor fella has said in his statement. Would near have you in tears reading it.
Very like the situation John McAreavey was in. A very heavy cross to bear.
Unfortunately many far right types will now use the words of this grieving man to whip up hatred against minorities.
I hope the perpetrator of this outrageous murder dies roaring but that does not change my compassion and empathy in general to people fleeing other countries.
Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2023, 10:50:34 AMUnfortunately many far right types will now use the words of this grieving man to whip up hatred against minorities.
I hope the perpetrator of this outrageous murder dies roaring but that does not change my compassion and empathy in general to people fleeing other countries.
"Fleeing" Slovakia? Deary me
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 18, 2023, 10:56:56 AMQuote from: Itchy on November 18, 2023, 10:50:34 AMUnfortunately many far right types will now use the words of this grieving man to whip up hatred against minorities.
I hope the perpetrator of this outrageous murder dies roaring but that does not change my compassion and empathy in general to people fleeing other countries.
"Fleeing" Slovakia? Deary me
In the case of Slovakia they have free travel to Ireland and us to them as I'm sure even someone like you knows.
In my post above I was referring to empathy to refugees and asylum seekers who the far right (like you) will attempt now to blacken with the horrific deeds of one foreigner.
Around 250 women killed by males since 1995.
Don't notice anyone saying ALL men should be tarred with the same brush.
That yoke that murdered poor Aisling is from an EU Country so the far right nazi wet dream of "closing the boarders(sic)"
wouldn't apply.
We won't be leaving the EU and we certainly won't be closing our only border after all the effort to keep it open since 2016.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 12:00:45 PMAround 250 women killed by males since 1995.
Don't notice anyone saying ALL men should be tarred with the same brush.
That yoke that murdered poor Aisling is from an EU Country so the far right nazi wet dream of "closing the boarders(sic)"
wouldn't apply.
We won't be leaving the EU and we certainly won't be closing our only border after all the effort to keep it open since 2016.
So let me get this straight-because Irish men have committed crimes against women, we now should accept unlimited and unvetted inward migration (and if you disagree you're a racist)
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2023, 12:53:22 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 12:00:45 PMAround 250 women killed by males since 1995.
Don't notice anyone saying ALL men should be tarred with the same brush.
That yoke that murdered poor Aisling is from an EU Country so the far right nazi wet dream of "closing the boarders(sic)"
wouldn't apply.
We won't be leaving the EU and we certainly won't be closing our only border after all the effort to keep it open since 2016.
So let me get this straight-because Irish men have committed crimes against women, we now should accept unlimited and unvetted inward migration (and if you disagree you're a racist)
::) ::) ::)
Quote from: whitey on November 18, 2023, 12:53:22 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 12:00:45 PMAround 250 women killed by males since 1995.
Don't notice anyone saying ALL men should be tarred with the same brush.
That yoke that murdered poor Aisling is from an EU Country so the far right nazi wet dream of "closing the boarders(sic)"
wouldn't apply.
We won't be leaving the EU and we certainly won't be closing our only border after all the effort to keep it open since 2016.
So let me get this straight-because Irish men have committed crimes against women, we now should accept unlimited and unvetted inward migration (and if you disagree you're a racist)
Basically. Enough Irish criminals without importing scum like this thank you very much.
I'd say him and his family came of their own volition, so he wasn't "imported".
Mind you we have "exported" some prize criminal specimens to the rest of the World in the last 25 years.
We won't be leaving the EU, we won't be closing our "boarder" as that would mean residents of Armagh not being allowed free and unfettered entry to the 26.
We will continue to observe International Law .
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 01:08:20 PMI'd say him and his family came of their own volition, so he wasn't "imported".
Mind you we have "exported" some prize criminal specimens to the rest of the World in the last 25 years.
We won't be leaving the EU, we won't be closing our "boarder" as that would mean residents of Armagh not being allowed free and unfettered entry to the 26.
We will continue to observe International Law .
Plenty of other threads for us to go round in circles on this.
I have no problem with people coming to Ireland (though the numbers must be managed) to work, integrate, contribute to your community but I do have a problem with those that come with no intention of working - like Mr Puskas and his ilk.
If you dont you should be told to hit the bricks after a period of time.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2023, 12:58:57 PMQuote from: whitey on November 18, 2023, 12:53:22 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 12:00:45 PMAround 250 women killed by males since 1995.
Don't notice anyone saying ALL men should be tarred with the same brush.
That yoke that murdered poor Aisling is from an EU Country so the far right nazi wet dream of "closing the boarders(sic)"
wouldn't apply.
We won't be leaving the EU and we certainly won't be closing our only border after all the effort to keep it open since 2016.
So let me get this straight-because Irish men have committed crimes against women, we now should accept unlimited and unvetted inward migration (and if you disagree you're a racist)
Basically. Enough Irish criminals without importing scum like this thank you very much.
We also export scumbags such as the Kinahans
We WON'T be leaving the EU or the Great Britain and Ireland Common Travel area so numbers won't be "managed", unless you want us to go back to the 1980s when no one wanted to come here.
I believe that yoke was a Roma, a Group who have been chased from or made unwelcome everywhere for a few thousand years.
Like our Travellers they didn't get or take on jobs, just draw welfare for large families.
Good to see a non-generic response for a change. Hate when people talk about having forgiven murderers, they should never get forgiveness.