American Sports Thread

[screenexile]

OK, lets go over this for anyone that doubts Belichick

Scenario 1 - At say 50 sec the Pats cal TO, Seattle run it on 2nd down and don't get in, Pats burn 2nd TO with 40 Sec on the clock. Seattle run it again and don't get in, NE are now out of timeouts with 30 odd seconds on the clock. Seattle let the clock run down to 3 seconds and call a TO with one play to go, 4th down. Now NE don't get the ball back at all.

Scenario 2 (as it happened) - Bold Bill lets the clock run down to 26 secs, now forcing Seattle to throw as they don't want to call TO if they don't get in on a 2nd down run and basically be left with trying to run two plays in 20 Sec, two run plays. So there was a possibility that they would run out of time on 4th down, causing much embarrassment to Pete.

Scenario 3 - If they got in on 2nd down then ~20 Sec on the clock his team would have a couple of shots  with two TO's left. If they didn't get in now he burns a TO stopping the clock at 20 sec, if they get in then he has 15 Sec and one TO left for Brady.  They have another shot at 3rd down and say they again don't get in Seattle burn a TO, or he burns a TO at 10 sec. He has now got 1 shot to stop them and win or Brady has one shot to win the other way if they do score. Either way he leaves his team with a shot

Only other Scenario was to let them score and leave themselves with 50 Sec and the ball, with a TO.

So he forced them into a throw on 2nd down, he knew they would throw and his players knew they would throw the ball. They had seen the formation before so had an idea what was coming so it as about jumping then

Yes he gambled but if he called the TO then he was beat. Like I said in an earlier post, he was calm all through this time while leaping Pete thought he had won the SB with that stupid smile on his face. Belichick is the greatest coach of all time.

Yet if the SS player had caught that ball then Carroll would have "outfoxed" him . Very thin margins here and ultimately imo anyway came down to exceptional defensive work from the NEP guy.

Can see why now how the term "Monday morning quarterback" got traction in the States.

Btw, I wonder if the SS quarterback is getting some heat over the affair or is the coach taking all the flak.

This is not purely MMQB really, because when the call was made I'd say there was a collective roar of 'What!!??'. I know I did at the time. MMQB is usually lads looking back with loads of time and trying to be clever. This was an instant reaction.

As regards Wilson, I don't think it was a bad throw as such. I think the DB did brilliantly, but if I was looking for a Seattle player to have a go at, it might be the WR who was out muscled for the ball. I don't think someone like Larry Fitzgerald would have been beaten for that ball in that situation, or if he was he would have made sure the DB couldn't catch it at least. The DB had brilliant closing speed in fairness though.

I agree! It was basically a 50/50 ball and the hungrier man got it. Fair play to Butler he didn't hold back and it came off for him. It was an easy ball to fumble as well.

[gallsman]

Beaten to the ball and absolutely smashed off it by someone 20 odd pounds lighter than him. I think Wilson went with the play called and made a good throw - Lockette was open. Still think they should have run it down their throats three times.

[Billys Boots]

Am not really a fan of the sport, and usually tune in for a few weeks only in Jan.  I get why the 'controversy' is about the last play, but I thought the stand-out aspect of the game was the sheer relentlessness of the Patriots two fourth quarter drives - impressed me anyhoo. 

[gallsman]

Am not really a fan of the sport, and usually tune in for a few weeks only in Jan.  I get why the 'controversy' is about the last play, but I thought the stand-out aspect of the game was the sheer relentlessness of the Patriots two fourth quarter drives - impressed me anyhoo.

True, I don't think Brady has got as much credit as he should have, especially going 8 for 8 on final drive, although I'd have had Edelman as MVP. Their O line improved as well after Michael Bennett annihilated it for 3 quarters.

[AZOffaly]

Am not really a fan of the sport, and usually tune in for a few weeks only in Jan.  I get why the 'controversy' is about the last play, but I thought the stand-out aspect of the game was the sheer relentlessness of the Patriots two fourth quarter drives - impressed me anyhoo.

True, I don't think Brady has got as much credit as he should have, especially going 8 for 8 on final drive, although I'd have had Edelman as MVP. Their O line improved as well after Michael Bennett annihilated it for 3 quarters.

Again agree with all of that. Have to say Brady really impressed me. He looked like he was 'gone' earlier on. Throwing off his back foot, looking scared of the Pass Rush, etc. I thought he was done. But he just had a couple of chats with himself on the sideline and came out like a gunfighter. I still think Montana is the best ever, but Brady is unbelievable as well.

Manning v Brady was the debate of the 00s. I think that can be put to bed now.

re. Montana, my favourite story about him is the 'Hey, isn't that John Candy?' story. Talk about cool under pressure.

[deiseach]

Tom Brady can never compete with Joe Montana. Unless he changed his name to Astronaut Mike Dexter.

[Oraisteach]

Well, it's signing day for high schoolers declaring their future colleges.  Auburn is having a very big day, but at least QB Torrance Gibson decided to stick with Ohio State.  Bucks also managed to pick up a couple of players who were originally heading to Alabama.  So not a bad day for Urban Meyer.

[Clov]

Against the Giants they were up by two. Giants could have wasted time and kicked a FG from PAT range to win it. Completely different complexion on it.

Sure. But it really comes down to your judgement of the likelihood of particular outcomes at the time. Specifically how likely you think the Pats defense would be to hold against the seahawks and how likely it would be that the the Pats offense would get a field goal with a minute left. If you think the odds of them scoring a field goal are twice as good or more (a field goal only ties of course) than the odds of them holding out defensively then the rational thing to is let them score (particularly if you factor in also the small odds they have of scoring a td with a minute left). 

[Muck Savage]

It's a matter or opinion whether I'm giving Belichick too much credit or not. Simply put he had a decision to make, bet on his D to hold them out for last 30 Sec's or Bet on his Offense to run the ball down the field against the best D in the league with the best secondary, while a little banged up but still effective. Brady didn't connect with a long throw all game, the whole passing game was built around short passes picking up between 7 and 12 yards.
I still believe he knew they would have to throw with that time left and only 1 TO. These guys see a lot more that the rest of us, I'm sure of that and while he may not have seen the formation he would have see the personnel going on the field, or not going on, which would have given him a good idea of the next play.

Ultimately his team won, Pete Carroll lost and I'm sure Belichick cracked a smile al least with picking up number 4.

[Clov]

It's a matter or opinion whether I'm giving Belichick too much credit or not. Simply put he had a decision to make, bet on his D to hold them out for last 30 Sec's or Bet on his Offense to run the ball down the field against the best D in the league with the best secondary, while a little banged up but still effective. Brady didn't connect with a long throw all game, the whole passing game was built around short passes picking up between 7 and 12 yards.
I still believe he knew they would have to throw with that time left and only 1 TO. These guys see a lot more that the rest of us, I'm sure of that and while he may not have seen the formation he would have see the personnel going on the field, or not going on, which would have given him a good idea of the next play.

Ultimately his team won, Pete Carroll lost and I'm sure Belichick cracked a smile al least with picking up number 4.

But he can hedge his bets by taking a time out at 2nd & 1.

[Muck Savage]

But he can hedge his bets by taking a time out at 2nd & 1.

But that defeating the purpose. Now you allow Seattle to have three run plays with the ability to run out the clock if they get to 4th down. It stops them rushing to the line to play the 2nd down and I believe it stops them having to throw the ball which it your best opportunity of a Turnover.

[Clov]

But he can hedge his bets by taking a time out at 2nd & 1.

But that defeating the purpose. Now you allow Seattle to have three run plays with the ability to run out the clock if they get to 4th down. It stops them rushing to the line to play the 2nd down and I believe it stops them having to throw the ball which it your best opportunity of a Turnover.

So he is betting on his defense but only if he can guarantee that Seattle will throw it at least once. And the way to do that is to sacrafice any chance you have of your offense tying the game should Seattle score.
This strikes me as neither very plausible or very smart. 

[Muck Savage]

But he can hedge his bets by taking a time out at 2nd & 1.

But that defeating the purpose. Now you allow Seattle to have three run plays with the ability to run out the clock if they get to 4th down. It stops them rushing to the line to play the 2nd down and I believe it stops them having to throw the ball which it your best opportunity of a Turnover.

So he is betting on his defense but only if he can guarantee that Seattle will throw it at least once. And the way to do that is to sacrafice any chance you have of your offense tying the game should Seattle score.
This strikes me as neither very plausible or very smart.

Betting on his Defense - Paid out
Betting Seattle would throw - Paid out
Win the game - Paid out

My point about deciding to let the clock run forced them into a throw in order to stop the clock. If they tried on each down to run the ball then Pete ran the possibility of only getting 2 plays.

He couldn't "Hedge his bets", it was all in with your Defense or try turn it over to his Offense, and what happened - HE WON.

By the way, if Lockette had gone all in he would have caught it instead of being out muscled by a smaller man.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Looks like the Croke Park Classic is back next year - Boston College vs Georgia Tech

[AZOffaly]

It's a matter or opinion whether I'm giving Belichick too much credit or not. Simply put he had a decision to make, bet on his D to hold them out for last 30 Sec's or Bet on his Offense to run the ball down the field against the best D in the league with the best secondary, while a little banged up but still effective. Brady didn't connect with a long throw all game, the whole passing game was built around short passes picking up between 7 and 12 yards.
I still believe he knew they would have to throw with that time left and only 1 TO. These guys see a lot more that the rest of us, I'm sure of that and while he may not have seen the formation he would have see the personnel going on the field, or not going on, which would have given him a good idea of the next play.

Ultimately his team won, Pete Carroll lost and I'm sure Belichick cracked a smile al least with picking up number 4.

You're rights.its  matter of opinion. And it worked out for him. And I'm delighted for Carroll, so it's all good 😄