Super 8s

Started by theticklemister, February 19, 2017, 10:55:16 PM

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AZOffaly

Players, county boards and a significant number of fans like the provincials, and like the fact that everyone is in the All IReland Championship.

Media seem to hate it, because they are sick of early season mismatches.


I think the compromise is to link the championship to the leagues, based on a seeding, into the Provincials. Let the lower seeds play off before the high seeds come on board.

It means you wouldn't have your championship pairings until the end of the league, but does that matter?

Also, no qualifiers. Screw that.

thewobbler

#61
Quote from: Taylor on February 21, 2017, 01:45:55 PM
Ultimately the provinces are the issue here.

How much would the individual councils stand to lose if it went to say for example an open draw?

1. The GAA absolutely needs provincial boards to administer and control games across the country; it is simply not possible to coordinate the competing needs of Derry and Donegal from an office in Dublin. Therefore taking away the provincial board's prized possession and cash cow is never going to happen. Everyone needs to be pragmatic here. This isn't "turkeys don't vote for Christmas" so much as "turkeys don't eat other turkeys".


2. While I would fancy Tyrone to win 9.99998 times out of 10 vs Antrim in a USFC game, you can be guaranteed that Antrim will put their heart and should into that game, hence 10,000 people will feel it is worth driving 40-odd miles and forking out £15 for the pleasure. But Wicklow vs Tyrone in an open draw? No thanks... we'll wait and see who Tyrone draw in the last 16. A football championship is all about whittling the competitors down to a final two. The provincial championships at least provide side stories in that process.


Always recall these two things before demanding the provincials are axed. Yep they're lopsided. But we'll balancing some form of imperfection with any system.

Jinxy

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2017, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on February 21, 2017, 12:00:12 PM
When was the last time a major change in the GAA was welcomed by EVERYONE?
Sometimes you just have to do what's best and to hell with populism.

Who decides what is best? You?

Sickening arrogance.

I actually favour the Kildare approach which uses artificial intelligence to evaluate the best course of action.



'Kildare delegate Sean Brady 2.0, pondering all those moments lost in time listening to Paraic Duffy, like tears in rain.'
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: thewobbler on February 21, 2017, 01:55:00 PM
1. The GAA absolutely needs provincial boards to administer and control games across the country; it is simply not possible to coordinate the competing needs of Derry and Donegal from an office in Dublin. Therefore taking away the provincial board's prized possession and cash cow is never going to happen. Everyone needs to be pragmatic here. This isn't "turkeys don't vote for Christmas" so much as "turkeys don't eat other turkeys".


2. While I would fancy Tyrone to win 9.99998 times out of 10 vs Antrim in a USFC game, you can be guaranteed that Antrim will put their heart and should into that game, hence 10,000 people will feel it is worth driving 40-odd miles and forking out £15 for the pleasure. But Wicklow vs Tyrone in an open draw? No thanks... we'll wait and see who Tyrone draw in the last 16. A football championship is all about whittling the competitors down to a final two. The provincial championships at least provide side stories in that process.

Always recall these two things before demanding the provincials are axed. Yep they're lopsided. But we'll balancing some form of imperfection with any system.

Food for thought there wobbler - good post - and I say that as someone who feels the current system is unfair, and the Provincial Championships underpin that unfairness, and that we need some sort of change to freshen things up.

Rossfan

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2017, 01:54:10 PM
significant number of fans like the provincials, and like the fact that everyone is in the All IReland Championship.

428,725 at 32 Provincial games in 2016 would certainly confirm that they like the Provincials
12,941 at 9 First Round All Ireland games would suggest a lot of fans don't like everyone being in the 1 All Ireland


The 8 second round games gave us 34,000 with 12,000 of them at the Rhubarb game.

It means you wouldn't have your championship pairings until the end of the league, but does that matter? If it got rid of that daft "draws" programme in October it would be worth it for that alone

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Keyser soze

Am I missing something here. I have long been of the opinion that the GAA has the best and most popular amateur games in the world, drawing in massive audiences both live and on TV to watch both codes from a relatively small pool of people on this island [mainly]. It also has an absolutely unparalleled community, cultural and volunteer ethos.

When I read this thread however I could be forgiven for thinking that the organisation and the sport is dying on it's feet and that nobody goes to watch the games. The amount of angst on here about the divers ways to 'improve' the system is astonishing. Maybe I am a conservative [never thought I would say that lol] but those proposing changes can never see any negatives with introducing new radical formats or dispensing with or sidelining the provincial championships, structures which have made the GAA the fantastic organisation it is today.

I would caution you to be careful what you wish for.

Zulu

Massive crowds don't go to see our games because of the competition format nor do people volunteer for their club or county for that reason.

Nobody is claiming alternative formats are perfect or that the sport is dying but there are serious weaknesses and the sporting and entertainment worlds have changed massively. There's no point in saying the provincial championships have served us well when they existed primarily when sport was hardly ever on TV until the past 20-30 years.

People can now see dozens of high level soccer games on TV each week or go to European cup rugby games 7 or 8 times a year. That wasn't a reality for most of us growing up yet how many times can Kerry fans (for example) go a watch them play a genuine competitive game against top opposition at home?

We have a daft system and it will hinder us in the future if we don't address it.

Maroon Manc

Get rid of the league, keep the provincials and create a championship that would guarantee every county a minimum of 6 games on a Champions League format.

Rossfan

When or how was it decided that the GAA has the best and most popular amateur games in the world?
Sounds like the same school of thought that declares that fans of the 26 Cos soccer team are "the best fans in the world" ::)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Quote from: Rossfan on February 21, 2017, 06:37:25 PM
When or how was it decided that the GAA has the best and most popular amateur games in the world?
Sounds like the same school of thought that declares that fans of the 26 Cos soccer team are "the best fans in the world" ::)

Most amateur sport is a bit shit in fairness.

trileacman

Quote from: Zulu on February 21, 2017, 05:55:45 PM
Massive crowds don't go to see our games because of the competition format nor do people volunteer for their club or county for that reason.

Nobody is claiming alternative formats are perfect or that the sport is dying but there are serious weaknesses and the sporting and entertainment worlds have changed massively. There's no point in saying the provincial championships have served us well when they existed primarily when sport was hardly ever on TV until the past 20-30 years.

People can now see dozens of high level soccer games on TV each week or go to European cup rugby games 7 or 8 times a year. That wasn't a reality for most of us growing up yet how many times can Kerry fans (for example) go a watch them play a genuine competitive game against top opposition at home?

We have a daft system and it will hinder us in the future if we don't address it.

If you want entertainment go to Bon Jovi concert. If you think we're gonna compete with international games like soccer or rugby we won't and trying to ape them will only hasten or downfall.

The gaa strength is the amateur status and our connection to the locality. That's why the march towards elitism and professionalism is the greatest threat to our games.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Zulu

That's nonsense in fairness. Again you can stick your head in the sand and think 1930's style sport but all elite level sport is a form of entertainment. People often build their weekends around sport events and view it as entertainment and that's a reality we have to accept. We are also in competition in Ireland with every sport that's popular there and kids are not going to differentiate between professional international sports and amateur national ones. 

By the way I don't se how developing a sensible competition structure is aping anyone or how it could possibly hasten our downfall. Sticking with a dysfunctional format that doesn't reflect modern society is definitely going to harm our sport.

I don't see any march to professionalism and I don't see how having a better competition format at the highest level would impact in any negative way on our local connection, which is a strength of course.

trileacman

Quote from: Zulu on February 21, 2017, 09:16:38 PM
We are also in competition in Ireland with every sport that's popular there and kids are not going to differentiate between professional international sports and amateur national ones. 

By the way I don't se how developing a sensible competition structure is aping anyone or how it could possibly hasten our downfall. Sticking with a dysfunctional format that doesn't reflect modern society is definitely going to harm our sport.

I don't see any march to professionalism and I don't see how having a better competition format at the highest level would impact in any negative way on our local connection, which is a strength of course.

Yes kids will differentiate between professional and amateur sports. They'll stick to the game their dad played, they'll support the place there from not some city they've never visited in England, they'll want to be the sportsmen they get to see in the flesh not some tanned fcuker on a pixelated screen, they'll stick to the sport that happens a mile down the road not in anfield, goodison, limerick, Dublin, Galway or Belfast, they'll stick to the sport where the stars train on their local pitch, or where the stars are their teachers or work with their dads or take them for u-12 training, they'll stick with the sport that lets them in for a tenner not one that charges 70euro a head for a World Cup qualifying match.

You see amateursism is what dictates all that is special and unique about the gaa. Without it we're nothing more than rugby league.

How does our format not reflect modern society? What the f**k does that even mean? Give me an proper reason for changing the game like its a shorter season or players will be more sure  of the structure not such convoluted high hat bullshit.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

AZOffaly

Tipperary voted to support the proposals tonight, despite a strong statement from Liam Kearns against the motion.

trileacman

And your wrong that everything needs to be entertaining. I didn't start supporting Tyrone or trillick as a kid because we were "entertaining". We were shite and played shite but it was our shite and I loved that. You've fallen into the Peter Mckenna trap that thinks the gaa is a product. Something to be bought and sold and glammed up to charge a consumer for. I don't need u2 playing at half time of the ai final or cheerleaders before throw-in for me to want to watch it and it's worth f**k all more if they bother to do that.

I don't need change for changes sake. I don't need a super 8 or 40,000 people at a interprovincial final. I don't need heated seats, hotdogs or overpriced pints of carlsberg. By all means change the game to accommodate club players or stamp down on cynicism or eradicate burnout.

But don't change the game to create "interest" or "entertainment" or increase gate revenue. People who turn up to gaa matches for entertainment should be refused entry and sent to the cinema.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014