The Big Bailout of the Eurozone (Another crisis coming? - Seriously)

[tyssam5]

SF are vermin. Hopefully the demise of FF wont be accompanied in a rise in popularity in organised scum. Bit like FF really.

I wasn't trying to trigger, nor do I agree with comments like this. Some of my family would be quite sympathetic to SF.

Not really bothered either way. Hell would freeze over before I would vote people with their track record in atrocities into office. No better then FF. They are vermin.

Looks like there is noone out there for you to vote for then  Indiana. Do a little scratching and you will find atrocities associated with all major political parties down south.

True but this is about burying FF. So I'll vote FG even though I dont like them. This isnt about local issues. This is about burying thiese scoundrels so they never surface again. Fortunately we're not that stuck that its a choice between SF and FF. If it ever reaches that stage I'll happily set sail on my raft.
The thought of Adams entering the Dail makes my skin crawl.

Are you Gay Byrne?

[INDIANA]

I'll vote FG even though I dont like them.

The party that gave us Ballyseedy, the Blueshirts with their Fascist salutes and O'Duffy going off to "fight" for Franco's cause.
The thought of them cnuts in Government makes MY skin crawl ....but they are the only real alternative.
However I presume they will only be an Administration not a Government as they will only be running things for the ECB/IMF/Brit Chancellor.

F*** it . It beats the current lot. Photographers are gathering at Phoneix Park. Govt will be dissolved tonight

[trileacman]

The past few days have made me sick to my stomach.

British reporters crawling the streets of Dublin, detailing our "embarrassing" bailout. Have watched all 3 major British news reports tonight (sorry I mean C4, bbc and itv) and it is cringe worthy the treatment of this story. Even worse is the bi-lateral agreement, spoken of in the houses of parliament.

What would Dev say or think now? Collins? Pearse or Connolly? The freedom he and others imparted on the Irish people now to be removed and to see the Irish go cap in hand to the doors of Westminster makes me deeply deeply disappointed. This is a dark time for this nation.

[pintsofguinness]

The past few days have made me sick to my stomach.

British reporters crawling the streets of Dublin, detailing our "embarrassing" bailout. Have watched all 3 major British news reports tonight (sorry I mean C4, bbc and itv) and it is cringe worthy the treatment of this story. Even worse is the bi-lateral agreement, spoken of in the houses of parliament.

What would Dev say or think now? Collins? Pearse or Connolly? The freedom he and others imparted on the Irish people now to be removed and to see the Irish go cap in hand to the doors of Westminster makes me deeply deeply disappointed. This is a dark time for this nation.

Pearse and Connolly would have been turning in their graves long before now!

[muppet]

The past few days have made me sick to my stomach.

British reporters crawling the streets of Dublin, detailing our "embarrassing" bailout. Have watched all 3 major British news reports tonight (sorry I mean C4, bbc and itv) and it is cringe worthy the treatment of this story. Even worse is the bi-lateral agreement, spoken of in the houses of parliament.

What would Dev say or think now? Collins? Pearse or Connolly? The freedom he and others imparted on the Irish people now to be removed and to see the Irish go cap in hand to the doors of Westminster makes me deeply deeply disappointed. This is a dark time for this nation.

Pearse and Connolly would have been turning in their graves long before now!

Berite Ahern would be turning in his closet.

[INDIANA]

The past few days have made me sick to my stomach.

British reporters crawling the streets of Dublin, detailing our "embarrassing" bailout. Have watched all 3 major British news reports tonight (sorry I mean C4, bbc and itv) and it is cringe worthy the treatment of this story. Even worse is the bi-lateral agreement, spoken of in the houses of parliament.

What would Dev say or think now? Collins? Pearse or Connolly? The freedom he and others imparted on the Irish people now to be removed and to see the Irish go cap in hand to the doors of Westminster makes me deeply deeply disappointed. This is a dark time for this nation.

Pearse and Connolly would have been turning in their graves long before now!

Berite Ahern would be turning in his closet.

dont you mean fridge

[Hardy]

18 minutes and counting ...

Until Nally Stand enters the arena?

He must have been held up.
(No pun intended and no reference to SF's history of baling out of banks implied).

[Evil Genius]

The past few days have made me sick to my stomach.

British reporters crawling the streets of Dublin, detailing our "embarrassing" bailout. Have watched all 3 major British news reports tonight (sorry I mean C4, bbc and itv) and it is cringe worthy the treatment of this story. Even worse is the bi-lateral agreement, spoken of in the houses of parliament.

What would Dev say or think now? Collins? Pearse or Connolly? The freedom he and others imparted on the Irish people now to be removed and to see the Irish go cap in hand to the doors of Westminster makes me deeply deeply disappointed. This is a dark time for this nation.

Have I got this straight, then?

You are not so concerned by the fact that "the Emperor has no clothes" (the country has no money).

Nor are you even so concerned that a Small Boy is pointing out his nakedness.

It's the fact that that Small Boy is a Brit which really bugs you.

Jayz, how "sick" will you be when the Emperor has to turn round and ask said Small Boy if he can borrow one of his old ganseys?

Oh wait...

[Declan]

economist, Jim Rogers, reiterates to the world what we all know, that this bailout is for Bankers and Politicians only and will enslave the population for generations. Video Clip of interview on Russia Today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tk2IFsUtJc.

Here's the alternative
In this interview with the RT, Jim Rogers says what everyone except a few bankers and corrupt (soon to be unemployed) politicians grasp: namely, that Ireland should go bankrupt. Instead, the government is forcing the country into a tough spot, where social tensions are flaring, and could erupt into an all out social conflict, confirming that the interests of its people is the last thing the Irish government cares about, and is only concerned about preserving what is now virtually proven to be a failed model (with even JPM saying so tongue in cheekly), and prevent losses at all major German and English banks. Quote Rogers: "It would teach everybody a good lesson, and in the end Europe would be stronger for it, and the EUR would be stronger... You can not spend staggering amounts of money that you don't have of other people's money that you don't have because somebody has to pay the piper. This is ludicrous. This will cripple the Irish economy for years to come. In the future Ireland will be crippled because everything they earn will go to pay off old debt. There is no reason why taxpayers around Europe or in Ireland should pay for other people's mistakes. The bondholders and the stockholders of banks should lose money"... So simple, yet so irrelevant when dealing with a dying economic model.

[spanner]

Why shouldn't the Germans help us out, we left the lights on.

[muppet]

Why shouldn't the Germans help us out, we left the lights on.

Yea but nobody's at home.

[give her dixie]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/nov/22/ecb-ireland-bailout-argentina


"Ireland should 'do an Argentina"

The Irish people expected to pay in austerity cuts for their banks' sins have another option. Reject the ECB and IMF, ditch the euro


When a firefighter or medical team make a rescue, the person is usually better-off as a result. This is less clear when the rescuer is the European Central Bank (ECB) or the IMF.

Ireland is currently experiencing a 14.1% unemployment rate. As a result of bailout conditions that will require more cuts in government spending and tax increases, the unemployment rate is almost certain to go higher. The Irish people are likely to wonder what their economy would look like if they had not been rescued.

The pain being inflicted on Ireland by the ECB/IMF is completely unnecessary. If the ECB committed itself to make loans available to Ireland at low interest rates, a mechanism entirely within its power, then Ireland would have no serious budget problem. Its huge projected deficits stem primarily from the combination of high interest costs on its debt, and the result of operating at levels of economic output that are well below full employment – both outcomes that can be pinned largely on the ECB.

It is worth remembering that Ireland's government was a model of fiscal probity prior to the economic meltdown. It had run large budget surpluses for the 5 years prior to the onset of the crisis. Ireland's problem was certainly not out of control government spending; it was a reckless banking system that fueled an enormous housing bubble. The economic wizards at the ECB and the IMF either couldn't see the bubble or didn't think it was worth mentioning.

The failure of the ECB or IMF to take steps to rein in the bubble before the crisis has not made these international financial institutions shy about using a heavy hand in imposing conditions now. The plan is to impose stiff austerity, requiring much of Ireland's workforce to suffer unemployment for years to come as a result of the failure of their bankers and the ECB.

While it is often claimed that these institutions are not political, only the braindead could still believe this. The decision to make Ireland's workers, along with workers in Spain, Portugal, Latvia and elsewhere, pay for the recklessness of their country's bankers is entirely a political one. There is no economic imperative that says that workers must pay; this is a political decision being imposed by the ECB and IMF.

This should be a huge warning flag for progressives and, in fact, anyone who believes in democracy. If the ECB puts conditions on a rescue package, it will be very difficult for an elected government in Ireland to reverse these conditions. In other words, the issues that Ireland's voters will be able to decide are likely to be trivial in importance relative to the conditions that will be imposed by the ECB.

There is no serious argument for an unaccountable central bank. While no one expects or wants parliaments to micromanage monetary policy, the ECB and other central banks should be clearly accountable to elected bodies. It would be interesting to see how they can justify their plans for subjecting Ireland and other countries to double-digit unemployment for years to come.

The other point that should be kept in mind is that even a relatively small country like Ireland has options. Specifically, they could drop out of the euro and default on their debt. This is hardly a first best option, but if the alternative is an indefinite stint of double-digit unemployment, then leaving the euro and default look much more attractive.

The ECB and the IMF will insist that this is the road to disaster, but their credibility on this point is near zero. There is an obvious precedent. Back in the 2001, the IMF was pushing Argentina to pursue ever more stringent austerity measures. Like Ireland, Argentina had also been a poster child of the neoliberal crew before it ran into difficulties.

But the IMF can turn quickly. Its austerity programme lowered GDP by almost 10% and pushed the unemployment rate well into the double digits. By the end of the 2001, it was politically impossible for the Argentine government to agree to more austerity. As a result, it broke the supposedly unbreakable link between its currency and the dollar and defaulted on its debt.

The immediate effect was to make the economy worse, but by the second half of 2002, the economy was again growing. This was the start of five and a half years of solid growth, until the world economic crisis eventually took its toll in 2009.

The IMF, meanwhile, did everything it could to sabotage Argentina, which became known as the "A word". It even used bogus projections that consistently under-predicted Argentina's growth in the hope of undermining confidence.

Ireland should study the lessons of Argentina. Breaking from the euro would have consequences, but it is becoming increasingly likely that the pain from the break is less than the pain of staying in. Furthermore, simply raising the issue is likely to make the ECB and IMF take a more moderate position.

What the people of Ireland and every country must realise is that if they agree to play by the bankers' rules, they will lose.

[Declan]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-23/bust-is-better-than-a-bailout-for-irish-patient-matthew-lynn.html

There is an alternative out there- Have any of our politicians got the balls to examine it?

[seafoid]

This says it all

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2010/nov/23/ireland-bailout-ireland

[Banana Man]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-23/bust-is-better-than-a-bailout-for-irish-patient-matthew-lynn.html

There is an alternative out there- Have any of our politicians got the balls to examine it?

I'm not an economist but I think I just read a pretty persuasive argument for 'throwing the keys back'. Any wonder the EU want the Irish to take the money at 5% interest to them, if they don't then the French, UK, German etc Governments will have to throw the cash at their banks which are exposed to the Irish Banking debt.

Simple answer, tell them to go and whistle for it based on this article, anyone see any flaws with it? He uses Greece as a prime example of how it hasn't worked and how Russia and Argentina defaulted and it didn't hold them back