Cryptocurrency

[Smokin Joe]

Good explanation Joe but if you could dig hundreds of metals out of the ground exactly the same as gold it mightn't be so precious.

100%. Hence it's scarcity.

Are you are saying that with the implication that there can be other Cryptos like Ethereum etc, so Bitcoin shouldn't be treated like gold?
None of the other crypto assets have a fixed, finite supply and are truly decentralised.  Most other "projects" have a development team and are led by a person who can influence the development / changes made.  That doesn't apply to Bitcoin.
I would say that the other Crypto assets are like silver to gold. They are a similar asset class, but they are simply different things.

[Main Street]

With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin?  Is its value based on a similarity to the value of   Picasso doodle  or a rare postage stamps,  is the value notional?

It isn't backed by anything.  It's just the same way that gold used to be money, gold wasn't backed up by anything because gold was the money.  Over the last 50 years we have got used to fiat money being backed up, to some extent by gold, but the reason that it was backed up was so important was because it was, and is, so easy to print more money to create more "wealth".  But all that is doing is diluting the wealth that already exists through inflation and devaluing the currency.

Why were people, and I guess you would also, be happy to know that they are using gold as "money"?  It's because it is a hard asset where the supply is almost static as there has never been more than a 2% increase in the gold supply in any given year, ie it is the hardest asset that we had known previously.
But Bitcoin changes that, here we have an asset where the supply is fixed at 21m units, no more than that can ever be produced as the nodes will reject a block that proposes more than 21m units.  It is this scarcity and finite resource qualities that gives Bitcoin its value, in just the same way as humans used gold for thousands of years.
But Bitcoin is better than gold as Bitcoin can be used as everyday money as there are 100m units ("sats") in a Bitcoin, so it is spendable for all transactions.  Gold couldn't be spent physically and that is why paper money as we know it came about.  There used to be just the amount of paper money that countries held in vaults, so this meant that people could accept paper money for every day transactions as they knew they could redeem the paper money for physical gold at any time.
But because it was so easy and tempting for the Central Banks to print more money when things got tight (such as fight in WW2) they did, and eventually gold couldn't be redeeemed by paper money as there simply wasn't enough gold to cover all the fiat money that had been printed.

So Bitcoin has a value in the same way that gold had a value, only iy does it better.  It is a "hard" asset because there is finite supply and the rate of inflation in the supply of the asset is very low, thus you can save in that currency and know that the value of your money is going to be the same when you spend it as it was when you earned it.
That's the reason gold is valuable, not because it makes pretty jewellery.

Gold has a value that has endured since the beginning of time as a precious metal that has unique qualities which are cherished, practical and in high demand for use in manufacturing. It has not been used as the reserve standard since its limitations for such  were badly exposed in the 1930s.

The purpose of the ECB increasing the supply of money in the euro zone was not to create more wealth.
ECB oversaw  the plentiful supply of money to citizens and business in economic dire straights during the pandemic,  possibly even prevented a social and political upheaval  of the brown shirted  thuggish ilk that grew in the 1930s
The ECB has huge reserves, the EU has massive trading and asset wealth. The value of the Euro is based on that.  For the past 7 or so years the ECB has increased the flow of money to member states, that undoubtedly has been a positive and has not been a destructive corrosive inflationary factor.
In a crisis, the actions that a responsible Central Bank takes is crucial to the fate of a nation, eg. the very effective actions taken by Iceland's CB post 2008 got their country up from its knees in no time, years before the ECB took their belated effective action.

There are obvious pluses to BitCoin, my question centers around the recent steep increase in the trading value of a bitcoin. It's a limited digital currency whose trading value has inflated with the speed of a bull on turbocharge.  The thought does arise, what goes up comes crashing back down. Not unlike gold there are productions costs, can those costs be increasing?  Are investors hoarding bitcoin, leading to a scarcity which inflates the value? Or what part does investor mania play?

[Smokin Joe]

Not unlike gold there are productions costs, can those costs be increasing?  Are investors hoarding bitcoin, leading to a scarcity which inflates the value? Or what part does investor mania play?

I've been very clear Main Street.  My view is that the value is increasing as more and more people are realising that Bitcoin has a chance at being the next base money layer in the same way that it used to be rai stones, then beads, then silver and then gold. I guarantee that at every stage of those evolutions there were people saying "this new asset" is a fad because it is not worth anything. If that is the case 1 Bitcoin will be valued at some crazy USD denominated value in the future because there may be a chance all the value of the world will be able to be bought with 21 million BTC at some point.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe you're right.  I guess we'll find out in time and each person will arrive at their own conclusion around what Bitcoin is and what the future of it could look like.

And I also said in one of my previous comments that the BTC price will likely overshoot next year what it's sustainable 2022 value should be due to mania, greed, FOMO and human emotions.  After that the price will likely come down again, probably to around today's current prices before it begins its path ever higher.
So yes, it is volatile, but I'm OK with that as I am fairly confident that the BTC I have bought this year will be worth much more in USD / GBP / EUR terms in 5 or 6 years than it is today.

[TabClear]

Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?

I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges.  They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets 

I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.

Woudl you recommend Kraken Joe? I used eToro sporadically for some share trading (and I woudl not recommend it!) but I have been told its not great for Crypto so I am going to open up a "crypto only" account and stick some money in I can afford to lose.

[Smokin Joe]

Woudl you recommend Kraken Joe? I used eToro sporadically for some share trading (and I woudl not recommend it!) but I have been told its not great for Crypto so I am going to open up a "crypto only" account and stick some money in I can afford to lose.

Yes, I would.  But use Kraken Pro as the fees are less.
So sign up with Kraken and then open a Kraken Pro window.

[Look-Up!]

Good explanation Joe but if you could dig hundreds of metals out of the ground exactly the same as gold it mightn't be so precious.

100%. Hence it's scarcity.

Are you are saying that with the implication that there can be other Cryptos like Ethereum etc, so Bitcoin shouldn't be treated like gold?
None of the other crypto assets have a fixed, finite supply and are truly decentralised.  Most other "projects" have a development team and are led by a person who can influence the development / changes made.  That doesn't apply to Bitcoin.
I would say that the other Crypto assets are like silver to gold. They are a similar asset class, but they are simply different things.

I'm saying gold is gold. Bitcoin is a technology. Technologies can become thee thing, can be re-created, can be improved or can become obsolete.

Don't get me wrong, I wish I had bought some last year, had the finger on the trigger time of big drop, but for other reasons didn't get to pull. At these prices I'd be wary. As you say I suspect there's no immediate risk of a crash but I think eventually a lot of people will lose big.
Huge money had been invested into it and there's huge energy costs associated with mining it so in that respect the price is reflected for now but there's a lot of very very old money hasn't bought in and maybe never will. It's a very long way off being the base currency, you're talking one hell of a wealth re-adjustment there for the blue bloods late to the party and the shoe shine boys who got in early. I cannot see how that works especially when you can just create a new technology that does the job better.

[Mikhail Prokhorov]

fiat currency is dead and along with them the banks

defi will be the way we transact going forward

unless of course you like paying massive fees and interest rates, feel free to continue 

[Hound]

Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?

I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges.  They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets 

I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.

I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?

On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it

any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet

I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day

[Itchy]

Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?

I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges.  They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets 

I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.

I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?

On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it

any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet

I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day

Am i right saying you cannot send your btc to anyone or to a waller which is a major downside

[Hound]

Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?

I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges.  They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets 

I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.

I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?

On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it

any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet

I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day

Am i right saying you cannot send your btc to anyone or to a waller which is a major downside

Don't think that's right itchy.
I haven't done it, but I've just checked and it does allow me to send crypto to other Revolut contacts. No commission.
I've just gone through the process now, other than hitting the final confirm button.

[Mikhail Prokhorov]

Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?

I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges.  They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets 

I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.

I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?

On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it

any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet

I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day

Am i right saying you cannot send your btc to anyone or to a waller which is a major downside

Don't think that's right itchy.
I haven't done it, but I've just checked and it does allow me to send crypto to other Revolut contacts. No commission.
I've just gone through the process now, other than hitting the final confirm button.

it's not actual crypto you are sending though, it's just the price of it that you buy on revolut

to buy bitcoin on the blockchain you have to use an exchange like coinbase, binance, kraken etc

if some lad in china for example wanted paid in actual bitcoin for something, you can't send it from revolut because you don't have any bitcoin on the ledger

[Methuselah]

I recommend using Revolut only as an intermediary between your bank account and a proper centralised exchange

I have tried and can recommend; Binance, Coinbase, Kraken, Kucoin, Swissborg, Crypto.com

All of them have adv/disadv. For most people, Binance should suffice, however they have had some regulatory trouble in recent months.

Crypto is a much deeper field than is appreciated in the mainstream (bitcoin and dogcoins) and i highly recommend that people engage with it with trivial sums if they have an interest in it as a premise. There is a sea of utility and innovation out there. But never ever put in more than you can afford to lose

[bennydorano]

You can withdraw £1,000 in Crypto to put in any wallet you own if you have a Revolut Metal account (£12.99 pm).

[Mickey Linden]

Is etoro good for cryptos?

[screenexile]

Anyone get burned on the squidgame crypto??